Ever wonder why your borderline or narcissistic wife, girlfriend or ex acts the way she does? Does it seem like she exists in a parallel universe where everything is the opposite, say from objective, verifiable reality? Would you like to know for once and for all what puts the cray in cray-cray?
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Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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Great session once again explaining what we are dealing with. I am in my second marriage with a BPD/NPD. I even identified myself as a codependent personality the first round and it took me a few years to work my may out of the marriage (work up the courage to dismiss the fabricated guilt and take care of ME). Well, I did it this time and even though the red flags were raging and MD doctor put me on Xanax after a month of marriage and anxiety attacks, I bred with this one! Please do a session on PARALLEL CO-PARENTING so I can be (more) comfortable going for a separation/divorce and not screwing up my 2 year old…… the old, let’s stay together for the kids dilemma. (or is the answer to wait to a certain age of toddler)
I don’t know what makes them thick. As a normal person I can’t understand. I suspect my ex Gf to have Borderline. She openly admits she is narcistic. Openly to me that is, not to the outer world. Yet though she posts these narcistic messages on her FB wall, about what a bitch she is and so on. Her own mother actually gives it a like.Everybody told me she is a nice person, and a great single mom.,but gradually, people would warn me about her seeing other men. Her colleagues, her friends even her own family members. I ignored it all , yes her public image made me naieve. She comes from a very disfunctional family, she doesnt talk to her dad anymore and hasnt seen him for some time now. Her mother is seeing a way younger men, who is into drugs. She doesnt work and lives with her son in an appartement owned by the Uncle & Aunt of my Ex Gf. My ex Gf got into a relationship with an 8 year older guy, when she was just 14. Everyone I know, would strongly be opposed to his or her daughter seeing someone who is that much older, yet in her family no one dissaproves. At 16 she gets a child from this individual. They stay together for 9 years , he didnt have a job and was into dealing drugs. He got arrested for narcotic charges and is in jail right now. She moved places with her now 7 yo daughter. Her daughter shows serious disturbing signs, she is very rude and insulting to adults. Im an adult male of 27 who was seeing her mother, she insulted me, threw stuff at me when i joined them for a nature walk, she cried and was really distressed. I asked my ex Gf if it was better for me to leave, her answers still surprises me to this day. No, her daughters behavior was normal, she pulls this off quit often. I do want to share my whole story, because I want others to learn from it . I want to warn them, no matter what they will give you, it comes with a price. The price is you, your sanity and everything you are. This girl brought me to my knees , and did everything to make me crawl. She was extremely cruel in her words, she insulted me , i’m stupid, everything was my fault, even the miscarriage of our child was my fault. I started doubting myself, I still do. I have to keep telling myself, what she did to me, she already did to others, and she will keep doing it. To her im this evil individual she has to stay away from. She treatened to call the police more than once, but i can show you every single conversation i had with her. I never used any verbal treats , nor did i show her any agressive tendencies towards her and her child. One day, after i found out she left me for someone else, someone way younger than me or her, i sat in front of her doorstep for 2 hours. I asked her if we could talk, she refused and let her daughter ( 7 years old ) speak to me. I wasnt agressive or anything, i just wanted to ask what is wrong with her. To talk about my concerns about her behavior. She treatened to call the police, i told her, you just do that. Im not doing anything wrong. Her neighbour can confirm. The good men offered me a warm drink because he saw me sitting there for the full 2 hours. I thanked him but declined. I informed him i had relationship problems and needed to talk to her, but eventually would leave because i didnt wanted to bother them. She didnt call the police, and she wasnt really scared. Her daughter opened the door more than once. If i wanted to make a move i could have, door closed or not. She would text me how scared she is of me etc… and suddenly i had some guy texting me, making treats saying if i ever would come around her or her daughter i would have a serious problem. I asked him if he was treathening me, because i would call the police on him. I told him she is using you, and he got more and more angry. I was so angry, upset by the way she was handeling everything, that i wrote some pretty bad stuff about her on my fb wall after she blocked me. She found out and started treatning me again with calling the police. I refused at first because i didnt use her name in it and i was just telling the truth. After a phone call were she was just spitting fire, she wouldnt even let me talk, i told her i would delete it. She even made a vague comment about us trying again in a few months time, after telling a hundred times it was over for her. She is out of touch with reality. To this day i still have her on social media, somehow she doesnt block me. I tried re-engaging with her several times but it’s hard. Yesterday i sended her a picture of her dancing and pulling of a funny face, and her response was: asshole , what do you want??? Yes, you see. regardless if i said sorry for what i did, and confronted her with how much more she wronged me. She is still angry with me, i think she will always remain angry with me. What makes her thick? I think it’s the attention, to them it doesnt matter , attention is attention, good or bad . I do want to write my whole story on here, and warn people. Stay away from these individuals, everything is an act. Yes they are sad , lonely people who suffer from the inside but you cant help them. My ex gf told me she felt depressed often, that she was crazy and narcistic and had to see a psychotherapist. Later of course she denied this all. I had good hopes for her, and supported her fully when she told me she made an appointment with a psychotherapist. She never went there and told me I was the crazy one, that i’m a psycho and that I need help. The only part she was right about, i did need help indeed. She threw me into a depression. It doesnt matter what you do, these people always find a way to justify themselves, and their actions. I don’t even know why I still have her on social media, maybe because im worried about her and i still care for her. What difference does it make, if i would try to help her or warn her, ill get arrested for false charges or have to watch my back for her criminal friends. Will she come back one day? Maybe, maybe not.The question is, will i take her back. Not without her looking for help. I think as long as its about them, they get this thick to act in the ways they do.
I am currently married to a women suffering with BPD/ NPD so your story speaks to me.
Understand that the failure of your relationship is not your fault. The behavior your ex-gf subjected you to is exactly what women that suffer with these mental disorders do. This new guy will eventually experience the same type of treatment.
It seems to me that your time would be better spent rediscovering your own value then trying to get involved in this unhealthy relationship again. Women like this are master manipulators. They prey on nice guys or guys that put them on a pedestal because of their looks or “perceived value”. It’s all a set up from the very beginning. They are wolves in sheeps clothing constantly hunting for new prey. Consider yourself lucky you didn’t really invest significant parts of your life that you couldn’t easily walk away from.
Learn all you can about BPD/ NPD because it opened my eyes to how I put myself in such an unhealthy predicament with an unhealthy women. I’ve realized I can’t have a healthy relationship with an unhealthy women’s no matter how hard I try.
Focus on getting yourself and your life together and on track. You deserve to be happy whether you’re in or without a relationship.
If you have a chance, watch the documentary “Stop at Nothing: The Lance Armstrong Story” (it’s on Netflix.) It is one of the best documentaries I’ve seen on a sociopath. It is very sobering to watch Armstrong lie, knowing what the truth actually is, but almost believing him anyway. It’s also disturbing to see the wreckage he’s caused in other people’s lives.
It was especially poignant for me since just this past week, I learned of yet another vile accusation my ex-wife had been peddling before our divorce (four years ago!) It reopened a wound I hadn’t realized was still so deep.
I agree Jason. I saw the part of the doc where he was being questioned on using ped’s and he just outright lies. I remember thinking that this guy is a “sociopath”. The look in his eyes was scary. Oddly enough I’ve seen that same look in the eyes of my wife during heated arguments. People with this illness are literally capable of anything.
I stumbled across this article immediately following yet another unexpected, volcanic outburst from my wife that started three hours ago, and is still going.
It’s putting it mildly to say that she is volatile. From zero to hate filled fury within one minute, literally, which signifies the beginning of an ongoing episode that may last for days. Her record is twelve continuous days. It has been five days since her last episode ended which lasted for four, arduous days. I rarely see more than one week without her exploding unexpectedly and immediately launching her usual tirade of textbook abuse.
The result of her hair trigger temperament has my daughter and I walking on eggshells every waking moment when she is in the vicinity. It is no wonder that my daughter and I prefer it when her mother isn’t around which has (predictably) compounded the problem – when my wife sees my daughter and I just getting along together, it makes her blood boil. It makes her blood boil when I get along with anybody. I’m not kidding either.
My wife was like this long before our daughter was born. I saw glimpses of her darker side before we were married, but it wasn’t until our honeymoon that I first experienced the full force of her brutal, abusive, and at times violent nature.
The smallest ‘mistake’ results in her hurling a torrent of abusive bile, usually towards me. From that point onwards, everything, and I mean EVERYTHING I say, do, don’t say, don’t do, is scrutinised, criticised and torn to shreds.
Seemingly, there is nothing I can say nor do about it once she snaps. No matter how I try to describe the impact her behaviour is having and has had on our lives, she rejects what I’m saying and just keeps on doing it or deflects on to another trivial matter to redirect and focus her attacks. Removing myself from the situation (e.g. going for a walk) is like adding napalm to an already raging inferno. Reason is truly not possible – not even hours or days after the original event. It’s the first time in my life that I can honestly say that – it’s [reason] just not possible, at all. Only those of you who are in similar relationships will be able to relate, I’m sure.
I’ve lost count the number of times this has occurred over the nine long years that I’ve let this miserable existence continue. The steady deterioration of my life, my daughter’s life, my friendships, my career, my autonomy as an adult – is difficult to fully accept or properly recognise as I continue to pay a hefty price on a daily basis. The never-ending chaos that has resulted is truly exhausting and sees all of my energies put into merely getting through each day.
If I had the time and head-space, I could describe in great detail the nuances of her behaviour – the convert, the overt, the triggers, the irrational… the extreme. But, there’s no need. It has been documented many, many times, by countless people with partners who bear a startling resemblance to one another. The similarities are truly disturbing and are a guide to recognising those whose nature is distorted, brutal, abusive, without conscience, and who could truly care less whether you live or die.
Previously, I was not one to give unsolicited advice. In fact, I was the complete opposite. However, I’ll make an exception in this case in the vein hope that even one person who can relate to what I have described may heed my words and save themselves before they lose more than they could have ever previously imagined.
My advice: Get out!!!!! Do not stay, do not give him/her any benefit of doubt, do not doubt yourself, do not listen to what they have to say – it’s a lie designed to slowly control you, but ultimately to destroy you. In their eyes, you are worthless… pond scum. The likelihood they will change is low – this is a well documented fact. If you need convincing, just ask an experienced Psychologist/Psychiatrist. Do not become ensnared in their self-centred trap. Do not trap yourself by purchasing property or taking on debt, having children, going into business together, or allowing your career or relationships with family and friends to be compromised because of their extreme behaviour and unreasonable expectations… demands. Do not do anything that will block your escape route.
Run! As fast as you can… RUN! And never, ever, ever look back! No matter how tempting or how convincing their assurances may seem, no matter how much your empathic side wants to cave in at the sight of their tears when they realise they’ve pushed you too far, it’s all a lie. RUN AND NEVER LOOK BACK!
Then, when you’ve escaped their parasitic web of deceit and abuse… breath, live, learn, remember the signs, and move on.
I guess I wonder is it me?? Have I made her that way.. Am I the one who’s borderline? am I the one being unreasonable..
One day she can be sweet, affectionate, loving, talking about a future together, children, where we’d live, how she misses me and has had a crap day at work and all she wants is me to give her cuddle and look after.. Then the next day she tells me that it was just words.. “She doesn’t mean it.. It just felt right to say it at the time” She tells me how she wants to settle down and have a family, build a life but then is messaging and meeting up with other men.. All whom are just friends but who yes she’ll happily admits to kissing, cuddling and talking about things with when she’s with them.. Even to sleeping with them in the past.. “I can go out with you and I don’t think about them, I can go out with them and I don’t think about you” she tells me she wants to give us a chance but then lies and gets caught out when I see other men messaging her.. All on average 20 plus years older. I’m 10 years older..
She loves attention, is constantly posting selfies on line to see how many likes she gets. She flirts constantly and loves to be the centre of attention.
Her father died when she was 15 and she blames it on that.. Telling me what a trouble life she had, drugs, alcohol, her mum had affairs and went off with another man, whom at the time she didn’t like.. She used to steal, lie and cheat at 16 was living with a 35 year old drug dealer.. She to get what she wanted. She tells me now that she’s fake with most people but real with me.. She stunningly attractive and knows it.. She knows how to wrap men round her finger, particularly older men 15/20 years plus who she insists she likes because they’re more mature.. She’s 30 and I’m 40
I’ve spent the past year being pulled when she needs or wants something and then pushed away.. And told that though she cares for me we can only be friends at the moment. She apologises and says she’s just not ready to settle down. She tells me she wants to travel, set up her own business, I’ve said I’d help with both.. I’ve told her whatever she wants to do I’ll support her.. She tells me her past boyfriends have been psychos, controlling, not trusting, checked her phone etc.. She had to lie to them otherwise she would put be able to go where she wants or do what she wants..
It all blew up 3 weeks ago, when she came back from a girls weekend away.. Before she went I said we should just be friends whilst she works out what she wants and leave it at that. She told me she didn’t want to be just friends but knew she had to work out what she wanted… when she came back we spent the evening together, she was telling me that she felt we’d end up together and where we would live etc.. But her phone kept beeping and she was hiding it.. I knew deep down what it was.. I took the phone and looked and sure enough there were messages to 5/6 guys 2 of which she was telling them she loved them. She got angry and hit me round the face twice..she flew in to an absolute rage calling me a psych, crying uncontrollably, shaking, screaming at me. I pushed her away (I’ve never touched another human being in anger in my life) we argued, I became so angry she told me “it was none of my business and that I’m nothing to her” I broke a painting I’d bought for her telling her to get all these other men to do these things.. I was gutted at how she could lie again and again and again. I wanted her to explain herself and to tell me what it was all about.. She told me “she couldn’t commit to me as she wants to be free to do what she wants, when she wants with who she wants” she told me again the things she said were just words, said to make me feel better as we’d had a lovely evening. I’d never been so angry in my life.. It actually frightened me..
She now tells me I’m controlling and wants me out of her life, but she still lives in an apartment I own though she does pay rent. I’ve given it to an agent to manage but she still messages me about stupid stuff. I don’t respond and now I just get aggressive messages. She lives in the next road and now has started seeing other men in the street and walking through the park in front of where I live. I’ve been told I should ask her leave at the end of her tenancy, but I can’t bring myself to do it as just because we’re not together and even though we did the apartment for her I feel it’s wrong to say to leave.
Her friends and family tell her she needs to grow up and settle down, they know she lies and makes things up but they let her get away with it and just say “oh that’s our ……” She bright and bubbly, beautiful and she knows it.. Superficially everybody loves her, we live in a small city and are both quite well known. So as soon as we started seeing each other people who knew us both were texting me asking me why I was with her? Telling me that she’s lovely but “a drama queen, attention seeker, that she needs to make everything about her” this happened last year when a funeral took place of guy she knew, she ended up making out that they were so close and he meant the world to her”.. Yet all of his friends were shocked and insisted she hardly knew him. in the heat of the moment I told her what people have said and tried to warn me off her.. Not proud of myself.. And I start to wonder is it me? Am I controlling.. Am I the one who’s wrong by asking her to account for how she lies and carries on.. All I ask of her is to be honest.. And if she’s just saying sweet things to me because she feels she should then don’t do it. I always said I’d rather deal with the truth even if bad than smile because I’ve been lied to..
I miss her.. And there is a massive part of me that still wants her in my life.. I know she’s off seeing other guys.. And I know I have to move on.. But I still care..
You sound like a cool guy. I’m sorry for everything you’ve experienced. Your ex sounds like my wife.
If I may make a suggestion that has helped me tremendously. Comedians Patrice Oneal and Dante Nero had a XM radio show called “the Black Phillip Show” and the 12 episodes are posted on YouTube. They really give great insight into “real” men/ women relationships and why as men we need to put our happiness first. Patrice has since passed but Dante has a podcast called “the Beige Phillip Show”. Give them a listen and tell me if it helps.
This was very informative as I’m still getting over an ex who was BPD among other things. She had sexual abuse, an eating disorder, and substance abuse throughout her life. She never wanted to get help for it although she was committed to a facility to treat her eating disorder which she now shuns, the eating disorder continues and she thinks she’s in control of it. She also cheated on me and wouldn’t stop communicating with the other man. It was a nightmare. A lot of what was discussed here matches up with many of the things I saw with her. I’m thankful to be out of the cycle of abuse she continuously dished out as it was eroding all of my self esteem and severely damaging to me psychologically.
But I must take issue with the remarks made toward the end of the video.
Emotional reasoning is common across many types of mental illness and by no means indicates that to have that, you may also be borderline or narcissistic. This was implied and I think it’s painting a picture on a very important matter with too broad of a brush. And perhaps I’m getting it wrong, please correct me if so, but I’m going on with what I took away from this and hope you can clarify.
An example is that I can at times fall victim to emotional reasoning due to the fact that I suffer from panic disorder. Cognitive distortions are what lay the groundwork for panic attacks even though many suffering from the disorder may not see it. Enter cognitive behavioral therapy. My MO is/was not to “emotionally vomit” over those close to me and I surmise the same goes for many others living with my disorder. We just want to overcome the fear of fear. One bad attack begins to distort reality and the world all of a sudden becomes a scary place because an attack may strike at any time. Emotional reasoning and cognitive distortions causes us to withdraw rather than attack. In all my time being treated for panic and depression, I have not once had my therapist offer up a diagnosis of any type of personality disorder. In fact, my therapist won’t work with BPD patients. They are a world of trouble to treat.
In my relationship, I the one constantly trying to rationally fix the problems we were having as she didn’t want to communicate. I was the one that wanted peace. As soon as we got it, she would sabotage it. She was always escalating conflict. Requests to please try and understand and respect my feelings were ignored and seen as trying to control her life. I had to do things her way or they were wrong. She had no ability to empathize or feel remorse. This was troubling and my cue to get out. But I got sucked into trying to fix crazy.
I can’t fix crazy. This I’ve learned and in my next encounter with it, I shall bow out gracefully.
Now I’ve seen emotional reasoning as you described in some women in my family and my ex. They would explode and say hurtful things and then hours later act as if nothing was wrong and if you tried to sort it out, you would be the problem for expressing hurt or dismay. This is quite abusive also and something I walk away from now.
So while I think the four signs laid out in this video are a good means of recognizing and defending yourself against borderline and narcissistic types, to say emotional reasoning is one factor that will answer the other three criteria, well, I think it’s too complicated and nuanced to say that.
Gotta call you both out on this one.
PS -hopefully I’m not using emotional reasoning to write this post. Lol. Keep up the great work.
Hello Rell and welcome to S4M.
I haven’t watched the video in awhile, but I don’t think I have ever explicitly said or implied that everyone who engages in emotional reasoning is personality disordered. Everyone has emotions that some times get the better of them. Even people who are predominantly critical thinkers engage in emotional reasoning, particularly if something occurs that pokes an old, unresolved emotional sore spot.
Emotional reasoning becomes a problem when an individual doesn’t regularly reality test their emotions, which many disordered people refuse to do even when presented with evidence to the contrary of their emotional states. Here’s an article that goes into more detail: https://shrink4men.com/2011/08/29/welcome-to-the-land-of-emotional-reasoning-id-turn-back-if-i-were-you/
Thanks so much for clarifying. In the context of your link and the comments made at the 48:26 mark of the video in this post, I totally get it now.
And my oh my did I see this over and over in my time with the ex. In fact it often felt like she was talking to someone else from her past that hurt her and not me, it’s like I became that person. It was brutal and sapped all my energy. I was in what they call the FOG. I got blamed for everything. Emotional blackmail was the order of the day. Gaslighting was a favorite pastime for her. If something happened to her when she was 2 years old, I must have had a role in it. And strangely, I started believing it. I fell for her professional victim routine and this is what I got. I thought I was helping, being noble, a good man, all of that stuff.
The FOG was a grim place to be indeed.
Anyway it’s not all doom and gloom. Heading out of it now thanks to a wonderful therapist. Got nowhere to go but up, and hopefully, moving forward, I can spot these women much earlier and remove myself from their traveling horror show before I get sucked in.
Thanks again and please keep up the support by educating us on how to come out of the darkness that these women dragged us into. There’s so many men out there going through this. This is a tremendous resource for them. This is great work.
Thank you so much for making this video!
I’ve been trying to understand my now ex for just over 2 years, as I still daily suffer the effects of her behavior during our relationship and I hope with understanding it I can figure out how to break through my limitations. Throughout the course of the relationship this is exactly what she did; a few months after we started living together she became the eternal victim and soon after that started she suffered a small accident that enhanced that status, entitlement rapidly came into play and I was taking over more and more tasks from her as she ‘could not do them’, until finally I was doing most of the chores in the household besides working full time+, she started to try exert more and more control over everything in our environment culminating in me becoming the guy played by Jack Nicholson in ‘About Schmidt’ having to sit down on the toilet (while I was also the one cleaning it weekly…), and she was great at emotional reasoning too as she went with her emotions despite all other people around her trying to show her reality with logical arguements and facts, even trying to persuade everyone else of being wrong and not understanding her point of view and therefore not seeing the real reality she saw
I always need to know and understand stuff before I can process it, and during my searches I stumbled upon this video on youtube. It litterally left me speechless, listening until the end with open mouth… how can people from virtually the other side of the world describe the behavior of my ex so closely, like they were there with us? I had been visiting local websites to find info on borderline and narcissist behavior as I was told by even her own family they saw traits of both in her, and they wanted her to get help just like I did after finding out she was gradually changing into a completely different person. I wanted the old person back, the one I had so much fun with and with whom I had fallen in love. Yet that person never returned, and by the time I grew so tired and frustrated with everything that I started to strenghthen my borders and go against her when she was being unreasonable, demanding, or controlling, I soon got confronted with her new ‘gay friend’ which turned out to be her new lover a week after I had told her to just get out of my life and never return.
During the relationship I have lost almost all my friends, family, dignity, self esteem, self respect, will to live. Most of it is actually my own fault, I was way to giving, too easy to surrender my cherished contacts, habits, and friendships to her pleas and cries about having to compromise between her needs and mine. If only I had known what I know now I wouldn’t have given up so much that easily.
During the years she isolated me from my family and friends as we moved to another city due to her not feeling safe anymore in the neighbourhood we lived in (where I actually grew up!), she had double standards for what she was allowed to do and what I was allowed to do which gradually intensified in difference being made, she was complaining about me and telling people around us lies about me behind my back, and continually accusing me of things I did not actually do (or did do but not with the meaning she assigned to it) and criticising me on everything even how I performed our household chores. By the time all those things started to show I had already been sucked in and was believing it was all for the greater good of our future together…
After I ended it, I broke contact as I had read on the net in several different places. Hardest part was to also brerak contact with her family and friends, as they had always been fair and honest to me in the past, yet now started to show more and more they were on her side. Yet she did not give up so easily; though living with her new friend she kept messaging me, demanding I do as she wanted, even threatening to get a lawyer and sue me if I didn’t comply to her will. For one-and-a-half-year the messages continued to come, but after about a year they grew fewer and fewer. It was quite hard not to react to public accusations she made on facebook adressed to me, calling me names and trying to make me look like the bad guy, yet I kept my silence. Finally she even persuaded people around her (that I actually had never known) to call me and practically make them do her bidding in asking me to pity her and do as she asked, but each time I got a call I kept contact at a minimum and blocked the caller’s number afterwards. Finally I have been left alone for a few months now hoping this will persist for a long time to come. Through the few mutual friends that still excist I every now and then pick up on some of the stuff that is going on in her life and it seems to be a cycle where she is now in stage 3 of 5 which I endured with her during our relationship, actually making me smile a little inside as the ‘gay friend’ is soon going to be in over his head eventually suffering the same fate I did, being mentally twisted and bent until he is close to breaking which is when she will betray him.
With all that going now on I think it is safe to assume I am finally in the clear, she is done with me. 🙂
So far so good… yet I noticed that I am stuck with trust issues, and I am having involuntary fight-or-flight responses. Seeing a psychologist I soon got labelled with ‘social fobia’ and ‘avoidant personality disorder’, yet I was never like this before the relationship. I wasn’t the most social guy in the world, I worked a lot as it was always busy at the company I worked for and frankly speaking I could use the money, yet I did have a few friends I occasionally met up with and family I frequently visited. All of that is gone now, I barely leave the house anymore as I can’t handle myself around strangers and especially unknown women who are just being friendly to me almost immediately trigger fight-or-flight mode upon contact.
Can you point me to information on how to deal with that, as in how to heal myself from this so I can be myself again?
I thank you for what you do.
As far as control goes, I have my own theory that borderlines do not have control of their own lives, therefore it gives them a sense of control to control other people. And the result will be that the controlled person will be introduced to the borderline’s chaos. If she went bankrupt, she could make the target go bankrupt and it does not matter that the target always had good credit. A target will sometimes react in ways that are like the borderline, but with the difference that you have a real sense of empathy and they have very little adult sense of empathy. A target may need counseling.
Target I think you hit the nail on the head. That sums up so much of what I saw with my ex. She had no adult sense of empathy and many of her emotions seemed stunted and childlike. Other times cold and robotic. Your theory is a very sound one and it does tremendous damage to the target. The target should feel no shame in seeking help. They should. I’m still recovering but it’s getting better by the day.
I made a vow to myself going into 2015 that if by years end my overall viewpoint of my marriage and my life was still negative, as it has been for the past 12 years, than I’m done.
Without remorse my wife is destroying every fiber of who I am. I’m a extreme codependent and people pleaser by nature so we make for a match made in hell-for me that is.
Slowly over the past 12 years I’ve abandoned my hobbies, friends, my own self care, dreams and ambitions all in an effort to keep this bitch happy-but to no avail.
After doing some research I’m pretty sure I’m suffering from c-ptsd. I’m 50lbs overweight all gained after meeting her. I became an emotional eater to cope with the constant stress of my relationship.Before I met my wife I had one job with the same company for 13 years but in the last 12 years I’ve had 18 jobs (no exaggeration). I asked her if she felt the constant stream of her petty arguments and drama, increasing my stress levels, had anything to do with it and she calmly replied “no I can’t see how that would affect your ability to keep a job”. Her thinking is that regardless of all of the fights and drama it should not overrule my responsibilities as a parent, husband and provider. In her eyes she’s the strong one for dishing out the chaos in our lives ( instigated by me because she’s the victim) and still being able to hold things together.
I was explaining to a friend that standing up to her is the physical equivalent to fighting Mike Tyson in his prime and a moot point. I could train my butt off to be as great a physical and athletic specimens as I could for the fight but Mike’s advantage was his mindset. He viewed himself as being a warrior a savage and that’s a trait I just don’t possess. My wife is built for the drama, chaos and the pressure associated with her being the way she is. In order for me to match her it would require me becoming a person I am unwilling to be.
For my own safety, sanity and the well-being of my kids I have to leave and build myself up. I feel I am slowly dying with my wife only caring in relation to her quality/quantity of NPD/BPD supply. If I died tomorrow I believe she would mourn the task of having to start over farming someone else to replace me after 12 years more so than my actual death. I’m sure the constant sympathy and attention would offset that though.
Your comment about work hit home. I can be an over-passionate perfectionist and have little tolerance for incompetence, which has led to a less than stable career. However, since my divorce, I’ve found that my self-destructive tendencies (career-wise) have lessened greatly. This is a trait inherited from both sides of my ancestry, but which was amplified, I now realize, as I compensated for the tensions of my marriage to a BPD and being the son of an NPD mother. My work became something I could control. Unfortunately, like a great-grandfather and several uncles, I tend to way what I think, so when people were fools or pushed back, I lashed out in a way I couldn’t at home.
I empathize with you about feeling you are losing your sanity. By the end of my marriage, I was really becoming unhinged. My ex was gaslighting me so badly that I was questioning reality itself and was contemplating suicide. My best friend later told me that within three months of my divorce, I was noticeably happy for the first time in years. However, it took a solid two years before I felt in control of my life again. Four years later, I still have so much distrust for women (and my own judgement) that I haven’t gone on a date (I asked a few women out, using different approaches, but got turned down.)
Oh, and don’t worry, if you died, your wife wouldn’t mourn you at all. She’d likely be pissed that you briefly became the center of attention.
Please get out of your marriage now. And get the best lawyer you can.
Thank you for sharing your story.
It helps to know that I am not alone.
If I may make a suggestion that has helped me tremendously. Comedians Patrice Oneal and Dante Nero had a XM radio show called “the Black Phillip Show” and the 12 episodes are posted on YouTube. They really give great insight into “real” men/ women relationships and why as men we need to put our happiness first. Patrice has since passed but Dante has a podcast called “the Beige Phillip Show”. Give them a listen and tell me if it helps.
Hello Andre,
I just wanted to say hang in there. There is light at the end of the tunnel. I’m in the most horrid of situations and like you have become of former shell of myself. I was in therapy and got much better, I started to care about things again. I’m an active independent person with a lot of drive. All of this was taken away, or rather I let it be taken away. Now that I am at the beginning stages of divorce, Paul and Dr. T. have nailed everything down to the last detail of what I and many others are dealing with. For myself, I have been reaching out to as many people as I can to seek help. I recently talked to a mother of one of my sons friends. She is an unbelievable person living a few blocks away. I never would think the person I needed to find would practically be in my back yard. She is an ex-detective and works with children today. Although she is retired she still maintains many contacts within the police department, dyfs, lawyers and therapists. I only mention this because staying strong and talking to people, trying to find the right people you need for support.
In my situation I’ve been with this person for 30 years. She has always had this behavior although I had no idea what was wrong and would always blame myself. Things over time became worse and worse, children were involved and by then my ability to do anything had sunk to the point I was no dependent on her control. After therapy in 2008/09 I got my strength back and was able to do some thinking for myself. I learned about passive aggressive disorder and have been a student of mental disorders ever since. I did this as a means to protect myself. I had gone through all the stage Paul and Dr. T. mentioned regarding breaking away and being free. Today I have no remorse for her, and don’t even look at her as a stable person because she is not. I live in fear everyday because since we agreed to divorce, rather I told her I wanted out, things have gotten far worse. She terrorizes me everyday. I live downstairs in a basement and stay far away from her. She will do things like come downstairs at 3am in the morning turn on all the light open and slam the basement door and start throwing things around the basement. She will leave and not shut off the lights or close the door. She has woke me up many times by pulling off all the blankets off me at any hour and start screaming and yelling at me. I have 3 children and one has had to leave because of the same abuse, but in her case it turn physical because she was attacked by the mother. The other 2 children live in fear as well. I’m doing my best to correct all of this by getting the right support and help in this case. It also means doing things I’ve had trouble doing like RO’s and signing complaints against her to name a few. I know I have to get her out of the house for the sake of the children. I post this so you know you are not alone, and that you have to find the strength to move forward.
Best of luck…
I appreciate your support. It gives me hope to know that things can and will improve. My unstable work history has really backed me into a corner financially. It will be awhile before I can get myself together to actually move.
I’m trying my hardest to be home as little as possible while doing what I can to rebuild myself. It’s very difficult to build myself up under the same watchful eye that rejoices in tearing me down. It must be done though.
I accept my wife for the women that she is but I can no longer subject myself to this piss poor treatment while calling it a marriage.
Check out “the Black Phillip show” on YouTube and the “the Beige Phillip show” podcast and let me know what you think. Patrice and Dante impart a lot of good inform men/ women relationships and why the key to a great relationship is men putting their happiness first. It has helped me tremendously. I hope it helps