It’s day 31 of Domestic Violence Awareness Month for Men and Boys, the invisible victims of domestic violence. If you’ve been following the In His Own Words series all month, you know just how heartbreaking and gut wrenching these men’s stories are. Many of you have undoubtedly found these accounts painful and triggering to read, especially if you or someone you love has had similar experiences.
These men’s tales have run the gamut from physical violence to emotional abuse to substance abuse to mental illness to sexual abuse to sociopathy to child abuse to abuse by law enforcement and the family court system. Hopefully, In His Own Words has helped put a human story to men’s domestic violence statistics and helped illustrate that domestic violence perpetrated against men and boys by women isn’t “funny” (Sharon Osbourne, I’m talking to you) nor does female perpetrated violence occur due to feminist fairy tales like rape culture and patriarchy. Abuse can usually be attributed to the multi-generational transmission of violence and dysfunction.
Today’s In His Own Words is a little different, in that we get to hear a manipulative, deceitful, abusive woman get her comeuppance.
The video, Always Be Recording? Better Believe It, is an audio file from Houston’s 104.1 FM The Roula & Ryan Show. Roula and Ryan periodically do a “revenge” segment in which they invite listeners to come on the show and confront their tormenter on the air live. Enter Josh and Jen.
Josh dated Jen for 6 months. He broke up with her after her behaviors became increasingly “manipulative, angry, crazy, jealous and psycho.” Approximately 2 months later (after Josh began dating another woman), Jen resurfaced claiming she was pregnant — oops!
Josh decided to “do the right thing,” broke up with his new girlfriend and got back together with Jen. (*Marrying Crazy just because she traps you into fatherhood is not the right thing — retaining an attorney, establishing paternity and securing your parental rights is the right thing). Please play the video below to hear what happened next.
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As I was listening, I couldn’t help but have the following reaction as Josh and Roula held Jen accountable:
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I mean in a non-sexual way, of course.
The alternate title for this article was How a BPD Says I Love You. Jen lied about being pregnant, having a miscarriage and being forced by Josh to get an abortion in order to destroy his relationship with his next girlfriend. She claimed she did it, “for [us],” because “God wanted her to” and “out of love.” In other words, deceit and manipulation are a-okay if it staves off feelings of “abandonment” and gets her what she wants — regardless of what the person being deceived and manipulated wants and regardless of how the person being deceived and manipulated feels. Sociopathic much?
The typical narcissistic, BPD lack of empathy is evident when Jen asks Josh, “How could you do this to meeee!” Also evident is her complete lack of remorse for her actions. She’s not upset because she realizes what she did was wrong, she’s upset because her sociopathy was publicly exposed. She’s not sorry for what she did; she’s sorry she got caught.
There are probably other mental health professionals who think I’m being unprofessional for making moral judgments about Jen’s character. These “professionals” would probably be quick to rationalize and excuse her behavior, chalking it up to a fear of abandonment or childhood abuse, the poor, poor dear.
Jen’s actions are wrong. She shows herself to be morally bankrupt. If she’s ever going to become a decent human being, that’s where her therapeutic work needs to begin. Jen very well may have suffered abuse as a child, but she is no longer a child. She is an adult and she is accountable for her behavior as an adult. Jen needs to experience shame for her shameless behavior.
Sadly, Jen’s behavior is not uncommon. It happens all the time. Ryan and Roula claim they’ve received texts from other male listeners who were also lied to by other equally desperate, unscrupulous, self-centered, selfish, crazy assholes. There are a couple of high points in this segment; one being when Jen thinks Josh is going to propose to her. The other being when Roula, the female radio host, blasts Jen and gives her an accountability smackdown, which brings me to my next point.
Women need to start holding other women accountable for this kind of crap.
There seems to be some kind of unspoken pact amongst a great many women, “Thou shalt not speak out against thy fellow woman, no matter how batshit crazy, amoral or sociopathic she may be.” Think I’m exaggerating? Think again.
A few months ago, someone shared an article I wrote, “Accidental” Pregnancies, Entrapment and Children as Weapons on CafeMom.com. One of the main points I make in this piece is that self-respecting, psychologically healthy woman do not force or trick men into fatherhood. This shouldn’t be a provocative or inflammatory statement, right? It should be blindingly obvious, shouldn’t it?
The majority of CafeMom commentators were outraged. Actually, the comments would be a laugh riot if the insights into these women’s belief systems weren’t so frightening. One woman condemned me for not “sticking with my own kind,” as if we’re living under some man-woman apartheid. Another woman hypothesized that I’m really a man masquerading as a woman (Surprise!)
I am not bothered by the attacks on my character, the accusations of misogyny or the questions about my very existence. What bothers me the most is the high percentage of women who think lying about being on birth control and trapping a man with an unwanted pregnancy is a perfectly acceptable thing to do. The post is a sampling of how a lot of women view this matter and, frankly, it’s pretty disturbing. You can read the comments here.
One woman became so unhinged by the idea that’s it’s not okay to lie about birth control that she started another forum thread, Just “Who” or “What” is Dr. Tara J. Palmatier. She writes:
Okay, ladies, this is a spin-off of Future Shock’s post about women entrapping men by getting pregnant.
I wanted to know WHY this supposed “woman” shrink was so one-sided against women— SURELY, a Wiki post somewhere existed that would explain why. I have found some images that are supposed to be her, but cannot be sure…
I propose that this “woman” is a fake.At least with Ann Coulter, you know she WAS born… This entity, well, do a little searching with Google, Bing, etc., and let me know if you find any REAL info other than blogs or articles purported to be written by her..
Here is an example of her “work”. I did not slog through all of the videos, but the ones I watched were enough to tell me I didn’t want to waste my time watching women hating on women… WHERE did they get these women? PAY THEM???
Think the CafeMomsters are just a small subset of whacky stay-at-home-moms? Think again.
ABC’s 20/20 (remember them?) periodically does a segment with John Quinones called What Would You Do? They did one not too long ago called, He’s Not the Father, Would You Tell?
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Not one single woman told the male paternity fraud victim he was being duped. Not one. Not even the women who acknowledged that lying about the paternity of the baby was wrong in the post-interviews.
What does all of this have to do with raising awareness for male victims of domestic violence?
More women (and let’s not conflate women and feminists) need to start speaking out against female batterers, paternity fraudsters, fraudulent restraining order abusers, parental alienators, able-bodied adult women who are capable of working but are awarded spousal support regardless, entitled princesses, female teachers who have sex wi their students, and false rape accusers, etc., etc. If you speak out when men behave in a similar fashion, you are a hypocrite if you don’t speak out against women who do the same.
Evil flourishes when good men and women do nothing.
To this end, I will announce the In Her Own Words series in the coming days. I’d like to hear from women whose husbands, sons, fathers, brothers, grandsons, nephews and male friends have been abused and/or victimized by a woman and/or by proxy at the behest of a woman. Domestic violence is not a gender issue. It hurts all of us, either directly or collaterally.
Thank you to all the fine men who shared their stories this month. I appreciate your willingness to make the time to do this. I know that dredging up these experiences was painful for many of you and admire your courage for doing so. We want to keep hearing from you and continue In His Own Words as a regular feature on Shrink4Men, which I will also address in the forthcoming announcement.
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
Want to Say Goodbye to Crazy? Buy it HERE.
Just wondering if you’re familiar with this article… for your “in her own words” series:
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Thank you, Kratch. I will ask if I can have permission to re-publish it.
“What bothers me the most is the high percentage of women who think lying about being on birth control and trapping a man with an unwanted pregnancy is a perfectly acceptable thing to do.”
Yes! Thank you!
As much as most of this site is devoted to men who have been involved with women who have personality disorders, mood disorders and/or substance abuse problems and it cannot be denied their behavior is the most damaging, it is scary how much acceptance women find for their bad behavior among other women and in the larger culture.
In a previous post of mine, I recounted the early part of the relationship with my now long-term boyfriend and how we took it slow because I knew he’d been hurt pretty badly by the end of his last relationship. I was told I have a good perspective on things. But what makes me cringe is that if I had not been willing to take it slow, if I had used some level of guilt and manipulation to move things to the next level, very few people would have faulted me for it. I’ve even been chided by female friends for not “getting a ring out of him yet,” and being told that they would have left someone they were dating for that long without a “commitment.” It’s a disturbing and transactional way to view relationships and a man attempting some of the same tactics would be viewed as creepy, and rightly so.
II’m just speculating but it seems like a lot of the problem stems from the fact that while women have (rightly) been taken more seriously in terms of the problems we face and our achievements, we are still not taken seriously in terms of our bad actions. From sexual harassment to spousal abuse, when women do it, it’s treated like a joke. When it comes to the harm we can do, the larger culture and too many women are wedded to the idea of our own ineffectuality. After all, we’re just women. How could anything we do harm anyone, let alone a man?
From my perspective, it’s patronizing and maddening. From the perspective of the men who contributed their stories, it is far, far worse. It is these cultural and genders assumptions that keeps a culture where women abusing men is largely unheard of and when it is heard of, almost entirely excused.
It is not right and I’m very glad this site exists.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Exactly right, billie, thank you.
Bad behavior is bad behavior and it’s “not different” or “funny” or “cute” or “acceptable” when women act in these ways.
I’m glad I found your site this evening..I just came out of this very type relationship. .and I still feel guilty..I’m glad these posts are here to read…thank you so much and I will donate when I can
Miguel 8 says
In Mexico the domestic violence is always portrayed with the image of a man beating to his wife or girlfriend, this is a one-sided and distorted perspective of the reality.We never see a campaign of a woman slapping to her husband, or screaming and insulting to her boyfriend, and even we don’t see to a mom beating to her little children. And this is a denial of the reality.
In my personal experience I found that sites like Shrink4men (gratitude!),AVFM, are doing a great contribution to the comunity. This sites are very helpful for people who has been through the living hell of abuse.
Through these excellent articles we can learn about the abuse and personality disorders, and the patterns followed by both the victim and the predator. Is very helpful, and the perspective is 100% profesional.
Thanks Dr. Tara for give us to chance to share our experiences and for this valuable contribution to our society through your dedicated work.
I’m really glad to find this site, I feel that I came to the right place in the right time.It is really a guiding light.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Thank you, Miguel. I am glad you’re finding your way through what you experienced with your ex.
Please keep taking care of yourself.
So, I don’t want to rain on the parade, but it is very very common for radio show call-in segments to be entirely fake. In fact there is an entire industry that hires people to be available for fake phone conversations like this. I am not making this up. Opie and Anthony have a month-long segment every October which they call Jocktoberfest where they expose bad radio, and a lot of what they expose is standard bits that are acted out. In fact, any time you see a “crank call” on the radio, it’s fake for sure. However, other call-in situations like the one acted here could literally be just an elaborate script that was handed to two hired actors.
Might want to actually confirm the story on the call in program. I’m not certain how to do that.
Mind you, I’m not saying the story is unbelievable or that women cannot be evil. I totally agree that Jen’s behavior is unfortunately believable and probably more common than we know. That doesn’t mean that this example is real.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
I wondered the same thing, Jeremy. Unfortunately, there is no way to verify this. Even if this is “scripted reality,” there are women who lie about pregnancies and miscarriages all the time.
Oh, I’m certain of it, and I do think it needs far more serious attention by society. I just don’t want good bloggers to get bitten in the ass by hollywood.
I agree Jeremy, unfortunately, borderline and narcissistic women are very good at hiding their misbehavior, only low-functioning bpd can expose herself that easily. Another weird thing is that the radio host revealed she also had miscarriage, I doubt that’s just a coincidence.
I live in Houston, I personally know people who have interacted directly with the Roula & Ryan show, and it is not fake. Now I suppose the possibility always exists that occasionally they use faked stuff, but I can give you several firsthand accounts of segments that were not faked.
By the way, whether the segments are fake or not, Roula’s personality is absolutely genuine, and I love that she pulls no punches when holding people accountable. Her attitude on the segment featured here on Dr. T’s blog is 100% consistent with her point of view every single day.
Now – to the original point regarding women who pull the fake pregnancy trick: I am an old “first wave” feminist from the 1970’s. I’m thoroughly sickened that women today resort to paternity fraud instead of getting an education and a job and bringing a real-live responsible adult to the world. WTF did I burn my bra for, anyway???
The last straw that got me to finally end my abusive relationship with my NPD was a aggressive passing comment she made about children that made me realise that “entrapment” might very well be her next move. So I got out, before I’d be tempted to sleep with her again.
I also understand how some women really don’t realise the reality of the abuse we’ve sustained, given how little media it’s given. I, myself, had never realised there were an equal amount of male victims and would never have believed how abusive a female Cluster B could be. All the stories I’d heard about were about narcissistic / borderline men who mistreated their wives and their female victims who just refused to leave them. I now know I wasn’t alone thanks to sights like yours!!
Victims of abuse tend to stay quiet and cover too – possibly even more so with men. When my friend finally knocked on my door saying he needed a couch to crash on – it had escalated far beyond anything I could have ever imagined. And he was still unsure if it was “domestic abuse”.
ME: You’ve got a black eye because she hit you with a rake handle!
HIM: But I chose not to block it so I wouldn’t get the police called on me.
ME: IT STILL COUNTS!
My heart breaks for him. It’s no way to live.
I read some of the articles and links here and I’ve been wondering if I should come out of the closet, so to speak, and join the MHRM (I’m a writer and educator but not published yet). I’m wondering if there are any articles on the dangers of doing this (my God, I feel like I’m living in a dictatorship).
But really I just wanted say, thank you so much. You’re doing so much for men (and thus indirectly for women too!) and a year ago this site pretty much saved my life.
“There are probably other mental health professionals who think I’m being unprofessional for making moral judgments about Jen’s character.”
A person with a personality disorder is not mentally ill. Rather – there is something “disordered” about the person whom they are. If that’s not a statement about someone’s character, what is? “Personality disorder” is simply clinical-speak for human evil. It’s the word the mental health professions prefer to use. Saying that you shouldn’t make moral judgements about personality-disordered people is sheer hypocrisy: the label *is* a moral judgment.
One of my favorite psych professors from college always explained the personality disorders like this,
“Everyone has a certain level of fear of abandonment, need for admiration and even selfishness. Up to a point all these things are adaptive. If people had no fear of abandonment then no human relations would last or indeed form in the first place. If people had no need for admiration, then we’ve lost a potent motivator for which many good things are done. If people had no selfishness at all, we’d entirely use ourselves up in the name of others.
“Borderline Personality, Narcissistic Personality and Anti-social Personality disorders occur when one or more of these traits is projected beyond the level of being adaptive, when it consumes the whole of a person. Something happened, whether through temperament, upbringing, genetics or a combination and you end up with say, a borderline so consumed with thoughts of inevitable and immediate abandonment that they feel justified in everything they do to prevent it.”
Personality disorders, I gathered through him are mostly thought and behavioral disorders imprinted on a very deep level. The way these people think about the world is warped and so they way they act within it is warped.
As far as I understand treatment for the personality disorders, it does involve addressing the disordered thinking, emotions and actions that person engages in. And one of the things to be addressed is the extreme self-focus. A large part of therapy for borderline and other personality disorders should be a drawing out of that self-focus to see the larger and often devastating effects of their own behavior. Depending on the type and extent of the disorder, an honest effort at this may well induce shame. but it’s part of the process, and I’d say vital to it.
There is a difference between condemning a person, i.e. “You are bad.” And condemning bad behavior, “you did something bad and now you are accountable,” Dr. Palmer does the second, not the first.
When you think about it, it’s those “professionals” that simply excuse the behavior who condemn the person. “Oh, they can’t help it so the rest of you will just have to be understanding and careful not to set them off.” Uh, no. Aside from the devastating effects of such bad advice on those who have to deal with the person, it doesn’t really do the disordered person any favors because there is no real hope offered that they could do better.
I beg your pardon, I should have said Dr. Palmatier, not Doctor Palmer. I mis-typed.
Dr. Tara, this line you wrote struck me: “Women need to start holding other women accountable for this kind of crap.” Too right.
About a year ago a “friend” (quotes intended) called me in a distraught state to tell me that I just *had* to meet up with her immediately. I did, at which point she told me she had been raped; this is something I take *very* seriously (as I’m sure most people would). I was even more shocked because I was (and am) acquainted with the “perpetrator”. She mentioned she had bruises (I never saw them as I thought to ask to would suggest mistrust on my part) and she hadn’t taken a shower; this meant the physical evidence was fresh so I offered to accompany her to a nearby police station. She wanted none of that.
Following her tearful revelation and her then having consumed copious amounts of wine, her story began to unravel with comments such as, “it was so nice the way he held me all night because X doesn’t do that” (X being her partner). “Really?!?” I said. I didn’t know what to make of this.
So, the Readers Digest version is that she went to this guy’s apartment, had a few drinks, he raped her, then he held her all night, which was nice (as she said), then raped her again in the morning, then he made her breakfast, then he asked her to leave so he could go to work.
A week later she said to me, “oh my GOD, what if I’m pregnant? What should I do?” I said, “um, perhaps buy a pregnancy test? They’re cheap these days.”
I’m rather slow when dealing with people like this; I think offered practical, sensible advice (police, pregnancy test, where to find counselling). But now I realize that what she really wanted was pity, and for me to corroborate her story to excuse the fact (to her partner) that she had been out all night.
My failure to join her drama conveyor belt meant that she continued to yap about the “rape” to others to the point where the “perpetrator” eventually found out via the local rumor mill. When I discovered he knew I said to him, “look you were an idiot, but you’re no rapist. And we’ve all been idiots at one point or another.” He laughed, thank god.
I offered to be a witness should he sue for slander. I wrote down every single detail of what she told me, right down to what she told me he made her for breakfast.
Allegations like this, for selfish reasons, can destroy a person’s reputation and, potentially, livelihood.
This woman is defiantly a cluster B (probably BPD) but I would be loathe for any professional to offer her such a label as I’m sure she would use it as an excuse (“I can’t help it because I’m !”)
Dr Tara Palmatier says
I’ve read many accounts of false allegations, and lying about rape to hide a consensual infidelity is in the top 5 reasons. Regret isn’t rape, either.
You did the right thing, Anita, by offering to take her to the police station. In my opinion, any woman who claims rape, but refuses to go to the police to file a report and have evidence gathered should be automatically suspect. And if they don’t want to file a report, they shouldn’t go about crying rape. Being accused of rape can destroy a man’s life, just as much as a conviction.
Your “friend” sounds like a duplicitous asshole, whatever her diagnosis may or may not be.
I still feel like I let the “sisterhood” down somehow. I think it was drummed into me that a woman would *never* lie about such things as pregnancy or rape and therefore to believe them is automatic.
I remember, years ago, a work colleague telling her lawyer that her soon-to-be ex-husband had been abusing their daughter. When this colleague got off the phone, I said, “sorry, I overheard. That’s *dreadful*. Did he really?” She said, “well, I don’t think so, but he’s such an a****** that I don’t want him to get visitation.”
This is just so far off my moral radar; I couldn’t believe what I heard. In my parallel universe no woman, for any reason, would do that.
I can “understand” why she’d lie to her husband/bf but why did she lie to you? It seems random to just call you up and tell you something when she could have confessed to infidelity or at least not told you at all? I just don’t understand the psychology of it? Was she mad at the man?
These people are so confusing.
This is just a guess but she probably wanted to bring someone in whom she (in her twisted mind) thought would be a natural ally. If there was thought involved it probably went like “She’s a woman. Women always believe each other about stuff like rape.”
Side note, what I keep coming back to was the “he held me all night. That was nice.” I’ve never been sexually assaulted so I can’t speak directly to how that would feel… I’m pretty sure that if I were raped I would not want a cuddle from the man who did it. I imagine I would want a police officer, a rape kit, a shower and some new bedding, in that order.
And a breakfast 😉
It was an omelette. Cheese and mushroom. I asked. 🙂
When I ran into the ‘perpetrator’ in a pub a couple of months later (after her continued yapping meant that everyone within several miles knew anyway) I said to him, “look, you were an idiot [for sleeping with her]. Everyone’s an idiot from time to time, including myself. But you’re no rapist.”
Then I said, “this is so unfair, you know. Toronto had the balcony rapist, London had the M25 rapist and all we get is the Omelette Rapist?” He laughed, thank god. Now when I bump in to him from time to time he winks at me and says, “fancy coming to my place for an omelette?”
So, the short version is: she met him in a pub (I wasn’t there but my partner was), was all over him like a rash, she went back to his place, had a few drinks, he raped her, he held her all night [unlike her partner], raped her again in the morning, made her breakfast, then kicked her out to go to a dentist appointment. Instead of heading home she went to a pub, called me in tears, said, “something awful has happened” and I ran to meet her.
She is poisonous. I cut off all contact with her but she has sent text messages from time to time, sometimes threatening suicide (because nobody believes her), another one said “I don’t know how you could be friends with HER” [someone else she told, a firey Italian/French woman who was having none of it]. The text continued, “SHE didn’t believe me; it’s people like her that stop women from going to the police to report crime.” Really? As I initially wrote, the first thing I did when I met with her was offer to take her to a police station, a 10 minute walk away; the only person who stopped her was herself.
She has a history of lying. Getting me on her side made her story credible. Frankly, I don’t like being used, especially at the expense of her partner, who is a really good guy.
When you and your “friend” were initially working through the details of the “rape,” I’d bet you were set up a few times to remark “That word (rape) you keep using… I do not think it means what you think it means.”
(credit to the Princess Bride)
That makes sense, I guess. Or at least I can accept it. Not all rape victims want to report crimes to the police. In fact men are even less likely than women to report sexual crimes.
I think we need to teach women that false allegations is not a way to solve a problem just like we need to teach men about consent/rape/etc. You’d think no one would rape and no one would lie about a rape but that’s clearly not the case. We need more than just leaving it up to law enforcement. There needs to be a cultural movement to reeducated men and women. Men to learn how to decrease their chances of a false allegation and women need to learn the consequences of a false allegation. It’s crazy that some people have to be taught not to be a crap person.
Sorry for going off on a tangent, but this news story seemed appropriate for this site: http://www.mercurynews.com/crime-courts/ci_24535161/jury-finds-girls-parents-liable-calling-teacher-perv
It’s pretty obvious that this guy was railroaded by a bunch of sociopaths and their enabling, probably sociopathic, parents. The “ring leader” sounds like a full blown narcissist. I hope her family pays out big as a result of the punitive damage phase.
On a slightly different tangent – my wife had a real pregnancy, but faked the miscarriage. Sounds weird? Let me explain.
She had been nagging me a for about a year to take an overseas job posting which was neither good for my career or our finances simply because she was ‘bored’ with the life I provided for her in our home country and wanted to live somewhere exotic.
I had been resisting the move, partly because of the impact on my career and our finances, but also because I figured that if she wasn’t happy with a beautiful new 6 bedroom home, two cars, and two beautiful sons in one of the most beautiful countries in the world, without her even having to have a job (not that she would have worked anyway), then she was hardly likely to be happy if we went somewhere else and had to start over.
When she accidentally (and yes, it was really an accident) fell pregnant she was devastated as a new baby would ruin all of her plans. She came to me with a list of selfish reasons why she couldn’t keep the baby. She didn’t want to be pregnant on her birthday, at Christmas or for New Year’s Eve. She new we couldn’t move to another country with a newborn and so insisted on a termination (it’s legal here).
While I felt that her reasons for the termination were wholly selfish, I didn’t feel that she was fit to parent another child in her state of mind. Frankly, given her postpartum depression which we were both still dealing with, I would have been afraid to leave her alone in the house with a newborn baby.
For this reason I agreed to the termination and supported her through the whole process, going to visit the GP, going to the consultations at the clinic and validating everything she said at the interviews.
She made me swear to never tell anyone about the termination as she was afraid of what her friends and family would say, and like the dutiful husband, I went along with it.
Several days later, she began telling people that she had had a miscarriage. She didn’t tell me that she had told anyone of course, and so I went about my business acting as if nothing was wrong – all the while wondering why people were treating me differently all of a sudden. They must have been thinking what a selfish uncaring asshole I was… not being at my wife’s side in her hour of need.
The thing that really irked me, was that she didn’t actually need to tell anyone. The procedure was done and all she had to do was rest and recover. It wasn’t until a few weeks later that I found out what her game was.
After a while it became apparent that she was using her ‘miscarriage’ to gain sympathy from her friends. She needed to get away, to leave the pain of losing a baby behind her. An overseas trip was what she needed…a fresh start in a new country.
Get the picture?
Ironically, I’m still trapped in this farce of a marriage and now my biggest fear is that she’ll ‘accidentally’ get pregnant to stop me from leaving.
I’d get a vasectomy if I could get away for half a day without her finding out.
Wow. Just wow.
I’ve always been in favor of us women having control over our own reproductive health but stories like this make me feel a bit the way an old psych prof felt about PETA and advances in medicine due to animal testing. Essentially, he feels that people who disrupt labs and endanger animals by setting them lose unprepared and in poor environments should forfeit the right to benefit from medical advances brought about by responsible, scientific testing on animals.
Stories like yours make me feel like women who do nothing for themselves, complaining bitterly all the while like spoiled 1950s housewives should not be allowed to benefit from hard won battles like Roe V Wade. Either take some responsibility for your own life and acknowledge that autonomy encompasses more than doing whatever you want or remain in the 1950s along with all that implies.
Side note: While this is how i feel in principal, I will say that it is overall a good thing that your wife did terminate and you were right to support her. She should not be a mother 3 times over.
Famous actor Jason Patric was on Fox News tonight (Greta Van Sustern program). Major PAS situation with his young son. He held a red carpet event in Hollywood last week to raise awareness on PAS, and, is organizing a more than grass roots campaign against PAS.
See their website ‘www.standupforgus.com’
If this thing gets going, it could be major turning point for father’s rights and the battle/exposure of PAS. Like it on facebook, donate, spread the word.
Martin D Brie says
Hey Doctor T and gang. I read that thread on cafe mom and I was surprised that there was a good amount of women who agreed with your article including its Op who was calling out folks on the issue. There was also a lady in the thread who pointed out tht there have been several articles by women who have admitted to lyng to keep a man. Its good to see that there are women who stand up for truth . The only way there will be equality is if we keep standing up speaking truth while pointing out that this issue goes both ways.
Martin D Brie says
I meant lying…..
I have just been through a similar experience, from reading about bpd my now ex-girlfriend has shown the traits and this site has helped me try to understand/ rationalise her actions.
After two and a half years I had emotionally detached from this girl, between lots of extreme highs (holidays abroad/weekends away, good times) I could no longer tolerate the overdose threats and attempts (at least half a dozen), constantly being questioned and accused about female friends, having my phone and email checked underhandedly etc. I realised this behaviour would never change and was very cyclical.
To cut a long story short, I finally brought up the courage to break up and put in place No Contact. This worked for all of two days when she decided to tell me she was pregnant (she didn’t let me know when I broke up to her face, because she thought we would get back together). I told her it was her choice to what she wanted to do, but I would not be in a relationship with her , I would however support the child anyway I had to (we are both in good jobs, me an Architect, her a Urologist).
She did not respond well to this, saying I was abandoning her and the baby and increasingly became more unstable (she had always been very volatile) threatening to come into my office and shame me, email everybody I know and tell them how much of scumbag I was and culminated in sending me a suicide email ‘saying her and the baby will no longer harm you’. This resulted in my dad and I going to her house at 1am and finding she had stashed at least 100 pills from her work, and said she had taken at least 40, which was very dubious. We got advice from a family friend who is a Dr, I also didn’t want to wreck her career by calling an ambulance, so we ended up driving her to her parents at 5am. At this point I went NC.
About 2 months went by ignoring the constant abusive voicemails and texts, I was sent 12 week scan pictures of the baby, however the pictures had been cropped with no name or date!!! This started to increase my suspicions as I had seen enough real baby scans from friends. During this period she had also been publicly posting pictures of her drinking on nights out, and going on holiday with a new BF.
Again NC continued, until start of November she phoned up drunk, in tears, saying that she had an abortion, and proceeded to tell me stories about all the men, drink and drugs she had taken since we split. I have since found out from a friend she now has a newer boyfriend.
I booked an appointment with my G.P. and showed him the 12 week scan pics, he wouldn’t officially confirm but did say the scans looked more developed than 12 weeks.
I was ultimately relieved but the whole experience it has left me feeling confused, gutted and empty inside. I do question the legitimacy of the pregnancy but will never know if it was real or not and the damage she has caused me while on the front of it, it looks like she has moved on.
I wouldn’t wish any person to got through the last 5-6 months I have,
Hi there Jamesscot. You bet she has most likely moved on….to find her next victim.Like a parasite,she has sucked you dry and it is time to move on.
More than likely she faked the pregnancy.That would have totally given the power to her and left you dancing to her puppet strings.
You didn`t want to ruin her career??? Oh really.
Narcissits do not have one drop of blood in their bodies that consist of any genetic structure close to empathy or another persons welfare.
My friend….turn around and run the opposite direction ASAP and never look back.
I want to thank this site for keeping me out of the ‘pregnant or not’ predicament. All the warnings of a ‘control freak,’ ‘verbal abuser’ and such warned of pregnancy as a weapon.
I’m divorced now, but healing is a process. I am posting to thank this site for getting me through the dark days, being one of several resources that kept me sane during the dark days. Now I realize me ex just has to control. No matter how much damage it does to my kids…
But the one thing they will never do is take responsibility.
I agree Evil flourishes when good men and women do nothing. I’m proud to have helped the men in my marriage support group also recognize what hell they were going through to end it. I’ve called abusers on their crap, but now I also realize there is a time and place.
But you know what has really helped? Talking to a few women who have also gone through hell. Its not ‘man vs. woman.’ Its fighting the evil.
Ty van Persie says
I am just out of a relationship that goes like this. I met her on OKC in Oct. We were only friends and didnt meet. Within 2 weeks of this, she started her spells as I call them. Telling me I was awful and not a true friend, she didn’t want a pen pal. Admittedly, I was online for conversation since I was out of a relationship with someone I was in love with. But, I needed baby steps to move on. Well, then the texts and emails started whenever she was in the zone as I grew to call it. I would get dozens of late night hateful texts, etc. Ok, maybe I am naive. I thought this was a fellow hurt person who needed my support too. She would make up, saying she didn’t mean these things, she was just upset because she cared about me and could feel us growing. Finally, I met her. Then in December, we slept together. At one point the week before Christmas, I know she was on her period. So lets mark that as ending on approx. Dec22, 2013. By Jan 10, we were still sleeping together. But, that night she went off again. I left her at her house for a “final” time. At around 0100 Jan 12 the texts were piling up. It culminated in congratulations “@ssh0le” I am pregnant and have cancer again, etc, etc…I am going to die now because I am having your baby. I still reached out to her – although, I think that night she may have actually gone on a date! (things I discover). She had a little belly by now (4 weeks since the doctor said conception was approx dec23 – dont forget the cycle I noted). She went through the trouble of buying and wearing a girdle, denied wine when I would try to offer to catch her slipping up, would note “smells” cause this is a sympton. But, never would take a stick test. Wouldn’t take me to the doctor she promised. Took me to her psychiatrist when she said she had to go to check drug interactions with pregnancy. Would constantly break up, telling me I will never be a part of the baby’s life.
Ok, so I spend the night on Jan 25th and we have sex, and, she’s all into me, had invited me over – this again was after the previous few days of sleeping for days on end and not allowing me to come over cause she was not feeling well. I got her out of bed on the 25th, took her to eat, etc. And, she was all happy for me being there for her. Then, poof. Back into the zone on the 26th-31st when she had her previous child that she doesn’t have custody of at her house and had said I had an open invite. But, she played it off. Well, that whole week she wanted nothing to do with me, saying this was all too much for her body and mind with the cancer, etc, to handle. She had to be alone. (she had appeared online again on OKC). I tried constantly to get her to talk to me and let me come over to check her wellbeing. At this point, you can call me a fool, but, I am a good person, and, had to know if she was safe. Anyway, she played me off. On Feb 2nd she said maybe after she drops the kid off we can get together. Nothing. On the 3rd, I was curious, through friends, and yep, she had reactivated her match.com profile as well. But, that evening she called me and said after her 6pm conference call, I could come over. Well, text, text, text…never happened..but, she would call to say goodnight…nope. Now, she claims, there is no baby, I am a fool, won’t say if faking, miscarriage, abortion…nothing, just hate mail and “blocking” me out of her life. Now, here is the part where you say, congrats, you got rid of a psycho. But, for me, it isn’t that easy. Suppose, there just is a baby? How can I turn away from that poor unborn child??? I can register with the state as a father even if unborn to protect the child from her. I told her I would do this and it legally requires her name, she told me so what, go waste my time. Who would allow someone to file a state legal document when there is no child, or, never was? And, who knows that I have told my friends, and, this would spread in our community?
My friend, Tye van Persie….wake up big time. As I read this there is only one thing that comes to mind. Trouble. My advice to you is that your turn off the phone,unplug the TV and lock down the house.
Spend a couple of days reading the entire Shrink for Men site…
especially the older material.
You need a major wake up call and need to educate yourself on what is going on around you. You have to learn about what she is doing to you.
Don`t waste another second.
Wow! Hats off to Dr. Palmiter for bringing awareness to tis problem! I stumbled upon this site while trying to educate myself on BPD. Shrink4men is the only helpful site I’ve found. Just before I met my now husband, he had ended his relationship with his ex girlfriend with BPD. She tried everything to stop him from fake pregnancies to threats of suicide. She even threatened to bruise and mark herself and cry rape. The girl Jen very much reminds me of his ex in fact. He was so damagedl and distrusting when we met I’m surprised he was able to move forward in our relationship so quickly. What bothers me the most about this situation is that it could have been avoided. Everyone who could have or should have done their job and aided him looked the other way or even laughed about the situation. She was stupid enough to leave a message with him claiming she harm any woman he became involved with. He was so fearful of this he didn’t even want me to post our wedding announcement in the newspaper or any wedding sites in fear she would harm me. I almost wish she would try. With my 10+ years of working for the legal system and of course my being I woman, this person would be handled by law enforcement and the courts accordingly.