Relationships Stages, Abusive Women and the WTF Moment, Part, One, explored the early stages of an abusive relationship and the WTF moment. To clarify, the WTF moment is when the non-abusive partner first realizes there is something wrong with the abusive partner.
As noted in Part One, the second relationship stage, the power struggle phase, can last indefinitely in an abusive relationship.
Many of the men with whom I work have not progressed past the power struggle phase in their relationships. In several cases, my clients have been married for 20-plus years. That’s two decades or more of being locked in a power struggle. No wonder they’re exhausted.
If you remain in the relationship after the first WTF moment in the power struggle phase, or second or third or fourth WTF moments, you then progress to the third stage, re-evaluation and identity formation. It’s possible for your abusive partner to remain locked in the power struggle phase while you move on to re-evaluate and, perhaps, resign yourself to the realities of your abusive partner.
During the honeymoon stage, attraction and commitments may be based upon projection, fantasy, and, in many cases, unresolved childhood issues. In the re-evaluation and identity formation stage, you consider whether you’re happy with the relationship, who you both are in reality (after the honeymoon stage rose-colored glasses are removed), your roles in the relationship and if you want to remain in the relationship. One or both of you re-evaluate your commitment based on reality as well as your fears and defenses.
You may ask yourself questions such as:
- Do I really love this person?
- Do I want to spend the rest of my life with her?
- Do I want another 10 years like the last 10 years?
- Can I handle being alone?
- What will happen if I end the relationship?
- Will she let me go amicably or will she try to destroy me?
- Will I meet another woman? A better woman?
- Will anyone else love me?
- What about my kids? My assets?
- Is it cheaper to keep her?
- Will my family and friends abandon me if I end the relationship?
This is the stage in which one or both of you may engage in affairs because you miss and crave the powerful emotions of the honeymoon stage. It’s not uncommon to pull away from each other and distance yourselves by making the children, hobbies, work and other relationships your primary focus instead of your relationship with each other.
In a non-abusive relationship, if you can both maintain love, communication and trust during the third stage you’re likely to progress the fourth and fifth relationship stages. The latter relationship stages include a rebirth and re-commitment to the relationship built on mutual acceptance, trust, realistic expectations, realistic perspectives of mutual strengths and weaknesses, shared history and maturity.
The pathology of abusers, sociopaths, high-conflict people and many personality-disordered individuals makes it impossible for them to progress past the second and third relationship stages. They simply lack the emotional maturity, communication skills and conflict resolution skills necessary to reach these stages. Many also seem to lack the ability to engage in any meaningful change oriented self-introspection and personal growth.
Many sociopathic abusers lack empathy, refuse to be held accountable for their hurtful behaviors and are unable to trust. How do you trust someone who won’t trust you? How do you trust someone who abuses you, puts you down and tries to control you? I don’t think it’s possible.
Some of the men and women I work with become stuck after having the WTF moment. Oftentimes, they’re stuck because they’re clinging to the memories of the honeymoon stage and engaging in wishful thinking. They have a difficult time letting go of the idealized fantasy person their abusers initially pretended to be.
These men and women seem paralyzed by a combination of misguided hope, uncertainty, fear and longing. They have had the WTF moment, or several WTF moments, and seem to become bogged down in a paralysis of analysis of their abusive partner’s behavior, looking for answers and any sign that the abuser might change. These individuals become self-taught experts on personality disorders and other relationship issues, yet remain stuck.
They have seen behind their abusive partner’s mask, yet refuse to see. They’ve read every relationship book, been through numerous rounds of individual and couples counseling, and have turned themselves inside out to win their abusive partner’s love and approval.
They believe if they try harder, love more, earn more, spend more, do more, are more sensitive, more nurturing, etc., etc., that it will bring back the person with whom they fell in love. What many fail to realize is that the person they fell in love with was artifice; an illusion. In the end, all of the effort and machinations they employ to return to the honeymoon stage are about as effective as pouring water into a bucket with a hole in its bottom.
If we look at this vis-a-vis the stages of loss and mourning, this is a form of denial and bargaining. This is often when the non-abusive partner has another WTF moment. Except this one is directed at the self. Oh my god, WTF am I doing? Why am I trying so hard? Why can’t I walk away? Why can’t I let go? Why do I want to be with someone who treats me so bad?
If this rings true for you, perhaps you had similar experiences in childhood with your parents.
As a child, it’s terrifying to realize the adults you depend upon are mean, crazy and abusive. For children, it feels safer to believe the reason mom and dad are cold, neglectful or mean is because they’re bad. Why? If mom and dad are mean because you’re bad, then maybe mom and dad will be nice if you work extra hard to be good. This damaging belief provides children with some measure of false hope and control in an abusive, dysfunctional and chaotic family environment.
Many of these children carry these faulty beliefs into their adult relationships. They recreate the familiar dynamic with abusive partners and believe they can gain their love if only they work harder at being the perfect partner and meeting all of the abusive partner’s unreasonable and ever-shifting needs, demands and expectations.
If this applies to you, you need to realize that you’re no more likely to get your abusive partner to treat you with love, approval and respect than you were your parents.
Your partner’s abusive behavior is not about you or any defects you may or may not possess; it’s about them and their emotional and psychological defects. Until you fully understand and accept this, you’ll spend your life pouring water into a bottomless bucket or pushing a boulder uphill only to have it roll back down onto you.
After you have the WTF moment and recognize it as such, you have a few choices:
1. You can put the blinders back on and pretend that you don’t know your partner is abusive. You can keep making excuses and blame her behavior on stress, hormones, the kids, anxiety, an abusive childhood, etc., etc., and keep on jumping through hoops, pouring water into a bottomless bucket and/or pushing that boulder uphill.
2. You can stay in the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) and tell yourself you made a commitment and that you’re obligated to stick it out no matter how bad it gets while a little part of your soul is crushed everyday.
3. You can do for yourself what your parents did not. You can love and respect yourself enough to end an abusive relationship with a person who is more interested in controlling you and using you as a whipping post and target of blame for her self-created unhappiness than she is in loving and accepting you, and having a mature relationship.
This is how you go from having a WTF moment to a GTFO moment.
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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Dr. T., may I cut and paste this blog entry for use in my autobiography? Thanks in advance.
Ditto for me, Verbal.
I’ve had several WTF moments. First, when she cut herself on purpose after we fought, then with her physical attacks on me — kicking, punching, biting. I thought the first WTF moment was my all my fault — I thought, “she cuts herself because I make her feel so bad.” But I know that the physical violence is not my fault. She has serious emotional problems that pre-date our relationship.
I told our marriage counselor that she physically attacks me, and since that day she hasn’t done it again. But I’m still miserable, and she doesn’t seem to think there’s a problem. I demanded that she get individual counseling, but she shows little interest.
I will leave if things don’t turn around soon.
Luckily, we have no kids. And my anti-depressant causes sexual dysfuntion (yay!). I’m young, in good shape, have a great job and have lots of friends. I’ll be fine.
But leaving her, if I must, will take more courage than anything else I’ve done in my life.
Ordinarily, I’d encourage you to speak with the MD who is prescribing the antidepressant with the sexual dysfunction side effect and explore the possibility of trying another med. However, if it’s eradicating the risk of you being oopsed by your abusive wife, maybe it’s not such a bad thing.
What is your biggest anxiety about leaving your wife, Lt Greenwald?
Thanks for your concern, Dr. T.
My biggest anxiety about leaving is my fear that I’ll go back to her. I already left once and went back in December. It’s a demoralizing/humiliating feeling to go back. Things have only gotten worse since I’ve gone back. Besides fear of crawling back to her, here are my other worries (in no particular order):
1. Fear of loss of her love
2. Denial/disbelief that this is happening to me
3. Fear of losing money and possessions
4. Anger at unfairness in the fact that I would have to move out
5. Concern for my wife’s feelings and safety
I’m looking at apartments, and I feel much more ready than I did in December. I had a breakthrough at therapy recently. I can say with 100% certainty that I CANNOT have children with this woman the way our relationship has been. Since I want to have children, I can’t be with her if we can’t turn things around. So the sexual dysfunction from Zoloft serves a real purpose!
p.s. two more…
6. I don’t trust my own perception of reality
7. I have a (delusional) hope that she will “see the light” and things will turn around
P.S. See my numbers 2 and 1 below, respectively, they can be applied to your numbers 6 and 7.
Hi LT,
I suggest you challenge your fears.
1. What you have with this woman is not love. It’s control and abuse. The “nice times” are what she uses to keep your hope alive. In an abusive relationship, hope is not a good thing because it’s not really hope; it’s wishful thinking.
2. This is a tough one. It’s happening. It’s real. Keep a journal and document, document, document. This will become a reality testing resource when you tell yourself, “It’s not that Bad. I can handle it.”
3. This is a real fear and you will lose some assets and possessions, but it’s better than losing your well being, peace of mind, sanity and life.
4. Yep, that sucks. That’s the way our feminist family court system works. Get mad and do something about it. There are many men’s rights and father’s right organizations fighting to change the system, to un-rig it and make it about true equality and justice. Get involved.
5. Pfft. Sorry, but seriously, pfft. Your wife will be just fine. She’ll find another host/prey to feed off of in short order if that’s what she wants. I don’t mean to hurt your feelings, but to an abusive predator, none of us are special. We are all replaceable. She’ll find another port in the storm/target of abuse to blame, abuse and clean up her messes. Never underestimate the number of people willing to line up for their fair share of abuse. If she claims she’s suicidal, then she needs a psychiatrist and a lockdown facility that can handle her. You can’t fix that problem.
Getting out of an abusive relationship is a process. I read somewhere that, on average, it takes a person approximately 7 attempts to leave an abusive relationship. You can do this!
Wow, thanks for the advice! I feel like I’m stealing from you! Do you have a way to accept “gifts” for the good work you’re doing? I would donate in a heartbeat. You are truly a lifesaver.
In response to your advice, I guess I should admit to reason #8 — plain old embarrassment. I’m a grown man in my 30s — a two-time combat veteran for godsake — and it’s hard to admit that I made such a huge mistake. I feel like I was tricked. I know that I have to “get over it” and do what’s right for me and my future self and future kids, but it’s hard. Like you say, it’s a process.
I do feel like I’m moving inexorably toward divorce. Checking this website is a good way to get a “reality check” on my situation. I’m not crazy. She’s abusive. Physical violence is NEVER okay. And it needs to end — one way or another — I gotta “get outta Dodge” as we say in the Army…
Hi Lt.
We are ALL vulnerable fools at one time in our lives. I am 53, and I have yet not to meet one including myself. Your embarrassment is a good sign that says you deserve more and made a mistake. Nobody here rubs people’s noses in their mistakes with Cluster B’s.
You can’t compare combat to a romantic relationship because of the intimacy involved. In combat your approach is more of a detached style to survive. In a romantic relationship it is about surrendering. Your being too hard on yourself in that regard.
You have mentioned kids a few times. She is not the Mothering kind. I am a Mom and I can tell you that it takes a mentally and emotionally stable person to raise a child. The level of self sacrifice and discipline required not to mention skill in parenting is very high. She can’t and won’t be able to do it. I do believe that you would make a good parent, but not with her.
Interestingly, you stated that she took a shot at your berries (testicles) a few posts back. Is she trying to take potential fatherhood away from you too? Now that would pi–me off to no end. Think about it.
Thanks for the support, B. She attacked me again last night. I got my things and left the apartment. It felt great to get away from her. It felt free. She called 15 times before I picked up. I kept telling her, “I don’t get it. It doesn’t make sense. Why do you want me around if you’re just going to scream at me and hit me? That’s not my purpose on earth. It’s ridiculous.”
I chose to go back. She promised she would be reasonable and not yell. Of course she broke that promise.
I feel like I’m getting more and more untethered to her. I can see my life without her. I can envision it. And I like it. It’s much better than this life.
Lt:
She is very scary. I really believe that you are going to have to leave and stay away for good now whether you are fully ready or not. She is so out of control, and her complete lack of regarding your well being is disturbing and chilling. You won’t be able to overcome the control she has over you if you keep giving in to her either because each time you repeat a behavior you reinforce it. What if she harms you for good the next time she harms you? What if you end up dead? Is she really that good and worth it? I don’t care how good looking and hot she is in bed either. Both can be very easily found in a normal woman worthy of your love.
The reason she fears your leaving so much is not because she loves you so much as you or she may think, but because she will be left with no one to project her hate and anger on. A BPD can’t deal internally with the chaos and madness of their own psychopathology so they find people or things to put it on. She can’t live with herself.
When you leave, she will find probably find someone very soon in order to have someone to coddle her and project. Consider yourself a very lucky man if this should happen. Here is a secret of a BPD. Although they are a mess, they are used to living with their madness and are very adept at surviving abandonment as they perceive it. Have you forgotten how clever she really is?
I don’t think it would take much to have a better life without her. I think if you were in prison you just might be safer than living with her. You stated that she hadn’t attacked you after you told the Marriage Counselor. I knew that was a temporary move on her part that was a manipulative ploy. Promises mean nothing to people who are psychopathic and/or narcissistic. You are fooling yourself if you believe otherwise. No narcissist or psychopath can love. Period. It is like a mental retardation for them, and I don’t mean that in a nasty way either for those who really are. I mean it in a way to show just how damaged their biochemistry and neuroplasticity in their brain may be permanently. You can’t expect someone to give something they can’t. Even if she learns to control herself, it doesn’t mean that she can love like a normal person can. Who knows if she can grow a conscience.
I am leaving her tomorrow. I have a safe place to stay and a plan to move my things. She won’t know where I am. Once I am safe I will notify her best friend and her parents. I will tell her by note that it is a temporary break, so that she doesn’t completely lose it.
I will turn my phone off the whole day. I will delete any emails she sends me. I will email her and tell her that I love her, but that our relationship is toxic and neither of us can get better if we don’t give each other space.
I did it. I’m out. I’m living at an undisclosed location, a furnished guest suite. A friend helped me move. All my friends and family support me. I’ve had my phone off since I left. I have no idea of the reaction of my abuser. I imagine she’s being pretty extreme. I have come to expect the unexpected.
I am out and now I must STAY out.
Thanks for all the love and support!
Good for you, LTG! Stay strong, Hoover clouds may be gathering on the horizon.
Hoovering is coming, indeed. Her father left her mother 15 times!!! And he came back every time. Then he bought her a $35K ring as an “endurance award.” This is all normal to my wife.
Yes, even with no kids, leaving her will take more courage than anything else. I left my NPD wife last summer after 27 years of marriage, and the divorce was final last month. It was the most difficult thing I’ve ever done, but it was also the right move, beyond a doubt.
The lack of empathy is stunning. They can treat people like crap and not think there’s any problem. But you are right, she has no right to treat you like that. Stay the course, and don’t be afraid to do what you need to take care of yourself.
Thanks for the support KJohnnyPo. And thanks for telling your story. It’s comforting to know that other men are experiencing similar problems…
Dr. T’s site has been a godsend.
Great advice, KJohnnyPo, and glad you got yourself out.
Set yourself a barrier for leaving her. Write it down. “If she does X, I’m gone.” Tell friends. Stick to it.
One of the worst things about an abusive relationship is the erosion of your standards. Draw a line in the sand. Don’t let your standards erode so much that you lose everything.
“Erosion of standards” — that’s a great way of putting it. That fits perfectly with her lack of respect for ANY of my boundaries. There are no boundaries in our relationship other than her boundaries. It’s pathetic.
All my “lines in the sand” have been wiped out. My ultimate line in the sand is NO CHILDREN. THat is a line that I cannot and will not break…
I hope that I’ll report to you next month that either (a) things have gotten better (I know, delusional), or (b) I left.
Lt.
She is far too volatile and low functioning to ever get well enough to function in a healthy relationship.
Of course, Verbal. Don’t forget to cite the original source. 😉
Great article and true in so many respects!
I think a man deep down need RESPECT. Women today, it seems, are hard-wired to kneecap men for not having enough money, not being social enough, not being motivated etc etc. There is no real way to fulfill such a woman’s standards, for they can be ever shifting. Best is for the man to dig his heels in and tell her this is her choice to stay in the relationship.
When a man loses his woman’s respect, he loses his trust in her. It is instinctual in how he senses that she will likely betray him if he takes the above action and issues the ultimatum for her to quit the criticism.
It is so unfortunate that men get hoodwinked and get locked into a relationship, such as starting a family (thus subject to child supportrape), or not having a prenup.
Being smart in a relationship in this culture seems to require a strong resolve and a solid exit plan.
Thanks, Lovekraft.
While some may think it cynical to enter into a relationship with an exit plan in mind, for men, I think it’s an intelligent act of self-preservation.
It calls to mind the rooftop tarring scene in Shawshank Redemption in which Andy Dufresne asks the meathead guard if he trusts his wife not to hamstring him.
I think every man who is considering entering into a legally binding marriage and/or having unprotected sex or trusting that a woman is being honest about birth control should ask himself if he trusts the woman in question not to hamstring him.
“I think every man who is considering entering into a legally binding marriage and/or having unprotected sex or trusting that a woman is being honest about birth control should ask himself if he trusts the woman in question not to hamstring him.”
There are three components of risk and we only control one of them.
This is the perfect opportunity to remind everyone of your excellent article on risk assessment, Mellaril:
https://shrink4men.com/2011/10/06/relationships-with-high-conflict-people-assessing-threat-and-risk/
Prior to even contemplating marriage, men, or women, should ponder this question:If you took a skydiving class, and the instructor, seconds before the first jump said-“by the way, only five of these ten parachutes will open”…would ya still jump?
“You can love and respect yourself enough to end an abusive relationship with a person who is more interested in controlling you and using you as a whipping post and target of blame for her self-created unhappiness than she is in loving and accepting you, and having a mature relationship.”
BANG.
Thanks, Alex. When are you going to write another article? Please consider this a not so subtle hint:)
Based on personal experience, the other question to ask is if you are staying with the person primarily out of obligation and/or expectations, such as from religion, family, friends and so forth.
Great question, which I missed. Thank you, Jason.
I dearly wish that I had had this article 20 years ago, Dr. T. You have simplified a very confusing emotional dilemma. Your closing paragraphs numbered 1, 2, & 3 really lay out the choices than an abused partner has. I was stuck in choice #2 for over 20 years while my soul was being crushed a little bit every day. I thought that I was strong enough to handle it without being damaged, but I have now realized after deciding on choice #3 how beaten down my spirit really was. It is not emotionally healthy to tolerate abuse over a long period of time.
I love your description of an abusive “person who is more interested in controlling you and using you as a whipping post and target of blame for her self-created unhappiness than she is in loving and accepting you, and having a mature relationship.” That is so profound and enlightening that it should be framed and hung on the wall!!!
When I informed my wife that I was leaving her she sorrowfully exclaimed that I have been her anchor. I replied: “anchor, my ass, I’ve been your whipping boy”. So your “whipping post” comment really resonates with me.
Dr. T, you are a wise and wonderful woman! Thank you so much for sharing your knowledge and skills with us men.
Hi danfromchelan,
Thank you for the kind words. I’m glad you find my ramblings helpful.
When I informed my wife that I was leaving her she sorrowfully exclaimed that I have been her anchor. I replied: “anchor, my ass, I’ve been your whipping boy”. So your “whipping post” comment really resonates with me.
It never ceases to amaze me how two people can have such different perceptions. The scary thing is that your stbx probably really believes her distortions.
I think her beliefs are truly true. It is tremendously empowering when an abuser has a victim. Their role is clear. Their behavior follows well-known patterns. They know who they are in life. It is seen as a safe and stable role for them. They are stealing part of the victims self-will, self-identity, and power. They are claiming those attributes for their own, because they have little of those attributes themselves.
They see the world as being composed of either victims or abusers. It’s scary to be a victim. It’s anchoring for them to be an abuser.
The impact on the victims is, of course, enormous. No one feels empowered when they’re being abused. The abuser honestly doesn’t see what the problem is. They are acting logically and consistently within their twisted belief system. Their truth is true for them.
Talk about perceptions…..when my ex read the final goodbye email which detailed his ex showing him with money, my showing him with money. His excessive drinking, throwing me out every ten days on last calculation, his histrionics etc etc. All he could answer was,”I just know there’s someone else,I just KNOW it”.
Completely disregarded everything that I had written. Now he sends me an email in a poem that sez everything that I had ever told him about our relationship and what went wrong.
They know what they’re up to. But dude, its too late. Not gonna let my awful relationship with my father all those years ago doom me to repeat it with people who will not take my kindness and generosity to their heart. And theirs to mine.
anchor, whipping boy… same difference right? The PD persons dictionary has absolutely nothing to do with the real dictionary or reality for that matter.
My hopefully* stbx (high functioning) said to me and to our marriage counselor after I left that ‘the one thing I knew you would never do was leave me no matter what’.
Wow, just wow…
I stayed in my first marriage to a HCP (low functioning) for 16 years stuck in stage 2 (with 3 kids thinking I was doing the right thing) until she left me. My hopefully* stbx knew that story and “sympathized” with me about how could she do such things and how she wouldn’t do it because she had known it in her life and wouldnt repeat it on me.
So because she knew that after I was committed to marriage, because of my beliefs, that no matter what she did I would never leave. I believe that gave her the “courage”(?) to let the mask down and start in on me. My first WTF moment was probably 10 days after we got married. She made it very clear during our short marriage that I needed to make a choice between my kids and her, well I tried to make it work for awhile but in reality leaving her was the easiest choice I have had in a long time because I love my kids.
So, will I ever find someone to love me? I don’t know. I thought I did this time but all I got was a much more sophisticated version of the last one and the same results.
Trust and respect. I used to trust people alot more than I do now but that phase of my life is gone.
Dr. T, please keep up the good work, you are amazing.
*Hopefully because she’s still fighting our divorce in court 18 months after I left and filed for divorce after being married and physically together for only 7 months.
This is a very hard thing to come to grips with. When I find myself slipping I remind myself, out loud if necessary, that the true face of my STBX is not the smiling, cheerful, kind face I fell in love with, but the one behind that mask – a sneering, screaming, dead-eyed visage of hate.
These are hard questions, and ones that can cause great torment I’ve found. If you feel that you’re inherently unloveable, or have been made to feel undeserving of love because of the relationship you’ve been in, it’s hard to even imagine at times that the answer to these questions could possibly be yes.
Hi SineNomine,
I understand and empathize with the torment contemplating these questions can induce if one feels broken and/or unlovable. In many cases, this is probably at the heart of why so many of us stay in relationships in which our partners are the equivalence of psychological poison.
These questions lead to another question: Is it better to be alone than to stay in a relationship that’s abusive and/or a relationship in which your needs, desires and feelings are rarely, if ever, considered?
While wresting with my own version of this torment many years ago, I decided it was far better to be alone and live with a dog with bladder control issues than it was to be in a relationship with an insensitive, selfish, emotionally abusive NPD or BPD.
You are loveable; it’s the abusive personalities who are incapable of love. They need you to believe the former in order to keep you tethered to them.
Thank you, Dr. T. As someone who’s been serially abused by the most significant women in my life, it’s extremely hard for me to believe that I am loveable. It’s a terrible, crushing, soul-rending source of pain that I wouldn’t wish on anyone. I just want it to go away.
“These men and women seem paralyzed by a combination of misguided hope, uncertainty, fear and longing. They have had the WTF moment, or several WTF moments, and seem to become bogged down in a paralysis of analysis of their abusive partner’s behavior, looking for answers and any sign that the abuser might change. These individuals become self-taught experts on personality disorders and other relationship issues, yet remain stuck.”
Yo.
I would call it trying to convince myself that it’s really that bad. Rather than hope she’s going to get better, I hope I’m just wrong. I’ve actually started a 3rd notebook journalling her behavior. I’ve come to the conclusion that I need to just set a deadline for getting out, write down a plan/to-do list, and do it.
For some reason, it’s very hard for me to remember and believe I’m in control of my own life. I’ve always had a healthy fear of breaking rules & getting punished – I want desperately to be “good.” It definitely goes back to childhood.
I love this article and sent it to my husband. His disregulated ex, who seems as hurt today as the day he asked for the divorce over three years ago, always accuses him of no longer being “the man I married.” To me, that seems an unreasonable expectation until I understand, in light of this article, her point of view. She didn’t want someone to evolve and grow. She wanted to maintain him in the honeymoon phase, regardless of how the years played out in their relationship or the necessity of going through the various phases of it. However, he always seemed to hear that in HIS definition, that his character was somehow fundamentally different, that he had fraudulently manipulated her into thinking he was someone else.
Although we are newlyweds and very much in the honeymoon phase ourselves, I am looking forward to growing with him and bonding further as we move through all the phases of our relationship together. I know he’s already seen the worst of me and still considers himself lucky to be my husband, and I’m so grateful that he’s done the work to move past WTF and GTFO to healthy.
Hi tenquilts,
Your comment resonates with me. I’ve been married to my husband for nine years and his ex wife sounds a lot like your husband’s ex. While he has missed out on being with his daughters, he has at least been able to evolve. When he was with his ex, he wasn’t even “allowed” to have a hobby, lest she accuse him of being selfish. With me, he enjoys travel, fine dining, cooking, home brewing, playing with our dogs, and tasting wines. He’s missed his daughters, but they have turned into people he doesn’t know. And unfortunately, they are going to have to figure out their mother.
I wish you much luck and happiness in your marriage. I’m glad to read that you empathize with your husband and want him to grow. I think that’s a good sign that your marriage will succeed.
Thank you – knotheadusc. My husband does get time with his daughters, but while they are struggling with horrible loyalty binds, aside from the transitions between households, they do seem to relax and enjoy knowing what behavior is expected of them when they are with us. We have clear rules posted, we allow most freedom of speech or thought (even if it might be hurtful), and we encourage TRUE emotion, not a substitution (e.g., anger for fear). However, they both show signs of growing to become like their mother, demanding loyalty from friends, creating drama in choosing an enemy and warring with her to take examination off their own pain, having overly high expectations of a love interest, lashing out to hurt others (even their dad) when feeling hurt, not taking accountability, and twisting around the facts of an event to suit their purposes. It feels like a battle for their souls on some days, and we know that their own choices and paths are theirs (as much as their mother seems to want them to be at least little mirrors of her, if not complete extensions of her), but we hope that just by modeling a different way to be and loving without judgment will be enough encouragement for their own self-love that their future might be different than hers.
My husband’s level of self-awareness and willingness to take his share of responsibility for where things stand right now are amazing, not to mention his ability to maintain boundaries with both firmness AND empathy for his ex. It takes a lot sometimes to see past the hatred and anger to the pain, to hold her accountable for choosing to nurse it rather than heal herself, and to stand firm in the face of threats to reduce his access to the children. He may feel ashamed and weak for what was the lowest of his past with her, but it has made him so strong today that I love him even more for it.
The willingness of a man to love himself despite the denial of a woman who wants to funnel every ounce of his emotion in her direction is a very attractive thing. I celebrate and encourage it.
Hi tenquilts,
I am a child (now a 32 year old man) of divorce. Your husband is doing the right thing. My mother was BPD/NPD — I can remember rage, meanness, lying, favoritism, neglect, and generally not giving a shit about me and my sister other than to try to get us to hate our father. My mother demanded TOTAL loyalty to her and to no one else.
My father, on the other hand, was a give-the-shirt-off-his-back kind of guy. He probably went a little too far, certainly with my sister. He let my sister walk all over him because he felt bad that he rarely saw us. With me, he was much more strict. But he was strict in a fair way. When I look at my life now — I am relatively successful professionally and socially — I know owe it to him. Going to my dad’s house was the ultimate respite from my mom’s chaotic home. I always knew he would be fair to me and I craved it.
My dad died when I was 19 — I gave the eulogy. My evil mother made his death ALL ABOUT HER.
I just wish he was still around. I would give anything for another hour or minute with him.
So tell your husband to treasure his time with his kids. My moments with my dad made some of the best memories of my life.
This is not much of a comment compared to what’s already been posted, but let me just say that what you’ve described is what I was when I was dating and married to my ex. I had a few WTF moments but hung in there for the reasons you stated…obligation, maybe it was me and my self-guilt, etc. It seems so blindingly obvious now, but being trapped in that state really felt like the fog of being in FOG.
When I strip all the embellishments and ten dollar words from it for me it comes down to:
It’s better to be pissed off than pissed on!
Bingo!
Hello Dr T, great article.
After two years of marriage (and one child) I was asked by my wife to leave for the fourth time. She is so mentally ill. Then I decided to stay the course and not come back. After a few weeks, she was asking me to come back (again). I only put one condition: that she could explain to me her narcissistic reactions and all the bullying that took place a few months after I met her (when she was already pregnant and we had just gotten married). Callying me all kinds of names, hitting me on the face (three times) and asking me to leaver her house on all those opportunities and basically attacking me in front of her family (who would not talk to me). I found your site after a month after my last splitup and believe me, it has been so reassuring and I have found so much sense in what happened. I don’t know if she is narcissistic or just plain sick, but even being separated has been a nightmare as I cannot manage to stay off her. I think I simply love her and I am looking for every possible way to help her, but after a few months of living this way and about 15 books I have read on narcissism I have found myself in deep trouble. Her provocations never stop, and after a few hours she is like nothing happened. I end up confused, enraged and without a clue as to why she cannot apologize. My conclusion is that there is something fundamental missing there. Like a moment in which on any conversation something sets her off and then the yelling and screaming begins “it is always about you”, “you don’t love me” (this after telling her just how I feel that day, after a week in which I took her car to have the engine repair, bought her a present, helped her with her work, paid for her airfaire for taking her son to see his doctor (she’s a former widow). These people cannot empathyze. I have seen this a thousand times from her in slow motion. There is something there missing. There is something jammed.And I cannot finish the relationship with her. I think it is just plain fear of her finding someone else and me being alone. Thanks for this Dr. T.
Oh so many WTF moments over 18 years I lost count. Of course I had lost track of myself, my boundaries, and common sense. I am so glad to have found you Dr. T, and the wake up call you provide through your valuable lessons and insight.
Thanks
Hello,
This is my first time here. My God what a slap in the face… I relate to so much of what is said. I have inquired about phone service for a few sessions. I’m on the outs right now with the g/f. Not officially diagnosed, she wont go to counselling, I have tried a million times to get her to go. She recently started going to alanon, nd where I read here somewhere she learned enough to be polite in her abuse…lol. Is there any place I need to start?
Thanks,
Many of us go and in fact find confirmation and solace with these articles of the nightmares we have to endure. I impregnated a true borderline. Went out with her for two weeks–she was nuts. Then of course she turns out pregnant–at 42! The rest is predictable, child support, alientation, lies etc. Know the drill. What I think a lot of us who have kids and have to endure these horrid creatures need is something beyond ten steps to dealing with the borderline, boundaries and the usual stuff. We need a sort of behavioral Jiu Jitsu or Karate on how to psychologically hit back. I tend to keep all email and never speak to her by phone. When she is acting out or lying, I just show here the facts. I prefer to avoid her but as you know, they deliberately make things like calling your child or sending a present and major drama. But beyond the usual things, I think it would be very empowering for all of us trapped having to deal with a borderline to have tools and insights essentially on how to screw with these monsters.
I find this works o.k. but am always looking for new ways:
Do not respond to her emails for several days and then keep it only business.
If you have a success be sure she hears about it.
If she has a failure, act concerned and then laugh.
Stay focused on your objective–your relationship with your child. Don;t buy into her drama or illness. If you do, you undermine your relationship with your child and you too become a nut.
Never speak ill of her to your child
Never bark. Just bite–don;t threaten to take to lawyer, don;t warn, just act. Go to lawyer, CPS or cops. Don;t consult her just protect your child and your relationship with your child.
Don;t ever listen to her. View her as some horrid little troll mouthing inanities who is at some level poisoning your child and his/her life. Its not just about you getting a bad experience with this creature, the crucial thing its your kids are being hurt. And so, if there are more ways to bring down and incapacitate to some level these harmers of our children, then by golly lets hear about it.
Had the WTF moment in June of last year. It was an undeniable revelation and every word in this article affirms what I heard, thought, and felt at the deepest level of my soul. To deny that moment, that clarity, would have been an act of emotional suicide. I have since left that marriage and, true to form, numerous friends have been warmly supportive and helped the healing process. There is light at the end of this insane tunnel but you must walk toward it.
I’m am going through this right now as we speak. Every red flag article I’ve read thus far describes my relationship perfectly and me being the type of guy who tries to work things out, I’d go to her with my findings in an attempt to fix things. I’ve never seen someone write off everything that is not of her own opinion. I guess that’s a red flag too. It’s crazy because I find myself just wanting to be alone so I can have some peace and not have to argue about every little thing. I used to stay out as long as possible hoping she’d be sleep by the time I get home. Now I’m home most of the time and I feel like a prisoner in my own home. She’s always judging me as if she’s better than me, nothing is ever her fault, and she’s always accusing me of cheating. Honestly I wouldn’t even call this a relationship. We’ve been together 3 years and she’s made no effort to get to know my family or friends even though I’ve met a few of her friends and family members on several occasions. There’s been numerous times I’ve actually been in a position to cut it off and move on but every time she makes me feel guilty like I owe her something. Trust me, this article is real. I’m going through it right now. She’s making me miserable and I can’t figure out for the life of me why someone would want to be with another person just to make them unhappy. It Boggles my mind.
Great post. I like the way this blog navigates away from blaming the demon woman as the sole source of conflict, and in turn, asks us to look within, our pasts and early relationships. I believe THAT approach holds the true gold for men. The only thing I would add is this: it’s important for men to learn more about what being a man means by learning from other men who have walked the terrain and faced the inner and outer demons. For me, I kept looking for the answers FROM THE WOMAN…trying to please the demanding “Mother Goddess” and trying to live up expectations left by the “Absent Father.” We are talking about nothing short of reformatting our own consciousness and cutting away that which is false and causing us pain.
To navigate this terrain, I was blessed to find a most empowering book by Robert Bly called “Iron John: A Book About Men.” Although the book has been around for a ahile, the teachings within are timeless and potent. The book is like a map of the man’s journey, from delusions, destructive darksides, and the true meaning of warriorship within, and the need to balance this with community. I highly recommend it as wisdom from men for men. A valuable map to accompany the great material and support found on this blog.
http://www.amazon.com/Iron-John-Book-About-Men/dp/0679731199
GREAT article. Describes my wife (of 24 years) to the tee. Took me ’til this past January to get to the WTF stage. I knew something was wrong, but couldn’t put my finger on it. Thanks to shrink4men, the blinders were removed! Gotta part with you on the parental link though. That has been the hot theory in psychiatry for many years, but I don’t see it any different than what the BPD’s do with “blaming”. I came from a very stable and loving family. My problem has more to do with trusting too much and being naive –and considering 24 years with a BPD, stupid! 🙂 Thanks for the good observations and capturing the patterns, but do yourself a favor and stop there –drop the “blame Mom and Dad” thing.
Hello t_in_ur_face and thank you for registering with Shrink4Men. Thank you also for the advice. However, I am clear throughout the website that, in many cases, men and women are attracted to this kind of personality because of their early childhood experiences, but that this is not true in many others cases.
I had so many “WTF” I can’t believe I didn’t trip over them!
Within a few weeks of moving to his hometown we went to his friends wedding where I knew no one. He then proceeded to sit next to me at the banquet table with his back turned the whole time! Him and his friends would also go out for a cigarette and not even tell me they’d just disappear.
He didn’t even notice I’d gone for over an hour when I’d had enough!
Hi Dawn,
Welcome and thank you for registering with S4M. Sounds like your ex would try to spoil events in which he wasn’t the center of your attention. It’s exhausting after awhile, isn’t it?
I had numerous WTF moments in 7 years but found way to rationalize and ignore most of them.
1. She told me she loved me on the second date. We are talking about a 49 years old woman here, not a young, inexperienced woman.
2. 3 months into the relationship she wanted to get married.
3. On our honeymoon she picked a fight with me and said she made a huge mistake and was leaving me.
4. I found letters and saw provocative texts from other men. Each time she minimized their meaning and blamed me for snooping and being insecure.
5. Each time she would tell me to get out she would chase me down and tell me to please not leave her.
6. She would scream horrible things at me, uncontrollably, and then later say she didn’t remember saying anything.
7. On more than one occasion, in a public place, she would pick a fight over nothing and then get up and storm out, embarrassing me in front of friends and family.
8. She would tell me its “Girls night out”. Then the next day flowers would be delivered to the front door from men apologizing for “last night”. Her story was always she ran into some guy from high school, he got fresh with her, and she stormed out.
9. She told me she could never again love me like a woman loves a man. She said I had become more like a “Father” to her.
10. She dumped me 1 week before we were to go on a trip for a week. Said she wasn’t happy. How could I be happy? She had “met someone”. That someone was at her place the very next week and has been there every since.
11. Oh, and one more. During our separation she sold her home and bought a house two doors down from my sister and brother in law. She said she did this in hoping it would help us get back together at some point. Interesting as she had nothing to do with my sister and thought of my brother in law as a hypocrite.
Amazing how after the fact you can see things more clearly than when you are caught up in the chaos.
Dshannon, sounds like a WTF moment turning into a GTF (Get The Fuck) out moment. Been there done that too…my ex fulfilled about 9 of your 11 bullet points (pun intended).
Being alone much better than being w a Sociopath.
I am one of those men who was in the power struggle phase for more than 20 years. 29+ years, in fact, counting just the married years. Though we had plenty of bumps from the beginning (or whenever the honeymoon phase ended), I don’t think I really had a WTF moment until about 15 years in. After that, the WTF moments came on a regular basis. Even over the years after that, however, the WTF moments prompted me to despair that the relationship would ever improve, to realize that I loved her more than she loved me, and to question whether she was capable of truly loving anyone or knew what love was, but never quite rose to the level of “diagnosing” her as mentally ill (other than depression and a touch of OCD). I thought many times, and very seriously, about leaving her, but each time I would conclude either that I did not have biblical grounds to divorce her (which, given my faith, is dispositive) and/or that it was better for me to be miserable than to inflict all the pain of a divorce on our 4 kids, at least until they were all adults.
Ironically, she filed first. It was an ambush divorce shortly after our 26th anniversary — obviously I knew we had many serious problems, but clearly she did not have any biblical grounds to divorce me and (ostensibly) she would never divorce me for less than biblical grounds (in part because her parents had divorced, so she knew that pain). (As an example of her wacky thinking, her primary complaint was financial. Despite getting the same input from multiple sources, she never “got” that her financial situation would only worsen as a consequence of divorce.) We reconciled, subject to a lengthy list of one-way requirements for me to satisfy and none for her. I worked diligently to satisfy them all, conscious of the unfairness but willing to do (nearly) anything if it would save the marriage and shelter the kids from the consequences of a divorce. After nearly 18 months of that, out of the blue she declared that I had not done enough to satisfy her financial concerns and that she was going to file her taxes separately for 2009 (which, in typical counter-intuitive fashion, would have the effect of harming our finances rather than helping). That was the last straw. On my individual counselor’s advice, I insisted that she drop the plan to file separate taxes, that she resume having sex with me (we had not had sex for almost a year before she filed for divorce, and not having sex until she was “ready” was one of her requirements for reconciliation), and that she otherwise make our reconciliation a two-way street instead of just my responsibility. Otherwise, I said, we would separate for 6 months (not divorce) to see if that changed her perspective. Our marriage counselor approved my “ultimatum” and urged her to agree, telling her explicitly at that point that she still did not have biblical grounds to divorce me but that I did have biblical grounds to divorce her (for sexual refusal, among other things). At first, she flatly refused all 3 aspects of the ultimatum. Paradoxically, the next morning she initiated sex for the first time in more than two years, saying that she had already planned to do so before my ultimatum. She was furious when she found out that opening the door to 1 of the 3 ultimatum items was not going to be sufficient to avoid a separation. Shortly after, she very grudgingly agreed to a second element of the ultimatum, complaining that it wasn’t fair and she didn’t like it but I was forcing her to do it. She was furious again when I told her that grudging compliance was no better than non-compliance as far as I was concerned. Over the next few months, she had sex with me a grand total of 3 times, waited until the last possible minute to agree to filing joint taxes (she waited so long I had to ask for a filing extension), and took no steps to comply with the 3rd element of the ultimatum. When she eventually asked me point blank what my plans were, I told her that we would be separating because she had not met the ultimatum. I was not completely surprised when she filed for divorce a second time a couple months later. I was flabbergasted, however, that she told all 4 kids about the divorce filing (and her one-sided reasons for it) before she or her attorney informed me of the divorce. (I learned about the divorce from our teen daughter, who called me on my way home from an out of town business trip.) She had done the same thing with the 2 oldest kids the first time she filed, which I regarded as completely unfair (to them and to me) and wrong. Subsequently, all of our counselors were unanimous that if we ever decided we were unable to reconcile, we would tell the children together, and she had promised me on more than one occasion that she would abide by that advice. I had naively counted on her promise and her professed Christian faith yet again.
The divorce was contentious and drawn out — one of if not the most contentious, lengthiest, and most expensive divorces my attorney, with 30 years experience, had ever encountered, despite the fact that there were no assets to divide. We informally agreed to 50/50 custody of our teen son and daughter while the divorce was pending, but she unilaterally rescinded that after just a couple weeks because she alienated our son so badly that he quit going to her house. (She had reacted to what was essentially a temper tantrum by taking him to the police station, at which point he ran away.) She retaliated by not allowing my special needs teen daughter to come to my house, until the court ordered every other weekend, etc. She and her attorney abruptly walked out of our court-ordered mediation, without explanation, after nearly a full day of negotiations. For months, she and her attorney refused to disclose their alimony and child support demands, until the court ordered them to do so. When they came, her demands were for permanent (lifetime) alimony in a large monthly amount and child support of nearly twice what the state guidelines called for, plus her attorney’s fees. After 16 months, we settled the month before trial for essentially what I had proposed from day one — child support at just the state guideline amount, no attorney’s fees — plus a small amount of alimony (1/7 of what she had demanded) for a maximum of 4 years.
Just as I was catching my breath from the divorce litigation and hoping that life would take on some normality, to my absolute shock (notice a pattern here?), I learned about 4 months after the divorce was final that she had started dating online immediately after the divorce was final; within 3 weeks had “met” online a defrocked, twice-divorced pastor/veterinarian who lived 400 miles away; would be meeting him in person for the first time for Valentine’s Day 2012 (4 months after the divorce was final); and was already talking about marrying him and moving to his home, taking our teen daughter with her. Sure enough, they dated every other weekend for the next few months, were engaged on Memorial Day, were married in November, and she relocated (with my daughter) at Christmas. At about the same time she was meeting her beau online, a friend of mine had asked if she would ever remarry. I laughed and said, “Not unless she finds a man who isn’t interested in sex.” I have no idea how they’re working that out, though I assume she is working hard to maintain a facade in that area for a while. Given her sexual issues and what I now believe to be her NPD, and given his marital history and character, I’d be very surprised if their marriage endures more than 2-3 years. But in the meantime, my daughter is 400 miles away and frequently miserable, spending 1 weekend per month during the school year and half the summer with me. And my ex-wife continues to interact with me most of the time with contempt and unreasonableness.
I understand now that this outcome was essentially inevitable, that I was actually being abused for most of the marriage, and that, as Dr. Tara writes above, her abusive behavior was (and is) not about me or any defects I may or may not possess; it’s about her and her emotional and psychological defects. Unfortunately, that does not make me any less angry about the permanent and ongoing damage to my kids she has caused and continues to cause, the (hopefully temporary) devastation of my finances, the disruption of my relationships with my kids due to her constant undermining during the marriage and the divorce, and the absolutely dismaying waste of my time and energy for 3 decades. Though it’s been 21 months since the divorce was final and 9 months since her remarriage/relocation, I find myself cursing her repeatedly throughout the day as new conflicts arise or memories surface of past incidents. I hope this is a necessary step in the grieving/recovery process that will soon be past.
In any event, thank you Dr. Tara for helping me identify what has been going on.
Hello everyone…
I came across this site last October after *finally* breaking up my crazy bitch from hell ex-gf – almost certainly NPD/HPD/WTF! After three years of total on-off confusion/pain/joy I finally stopped denying it and saw her for what she was.
Luckily I found this site at the same time when trying to understand what the hell was happening and since then I’ve been lurking in the shadows reading all of Dr T’s articles and your posts which have really helped me through the most difficult time in my life.
Ten months down the line of no contact and I’m in a much better place these days but bloody hell its been tough. Still think about it every day and sometimes wistfully until I come here and get a dose of reality 🙂
I’m 48 years old and haven’t exactly had a sheltered life but since escaping from the ex I have variously felt very naive and stupid. I had no idea that people like this existed, I always thought of myself as a people person and good judge of character so this has really rocked a fundamental belief I held about myself. I think one of the major problems is that if you’re a normal half decent bloke who wants a close intimate relationship with someone… then you’re there for the taking unless you’re aware that people like this (Sociopaths) are out there. I think I suspected the worst of her for the last 2 years of the relationship and remember many WFT moments but I was either always talked around or talked myself around after the storm had passed and we were in one of the quiet periods (which became shorter and shorter as the relationship went on).
Anyway – I’ve found that once you’ve had an encounter like this its much easier to spot them and despite the fact that its been painful it has been a great lesson for the rest of my life. You have to take a positive out of everything and I feel like I’m finally getting there – thanks to all of you.
I have been groomed by my gf into the stage I am in now, where due to underemployment I was convinced to move in with her few months ago, and this last few months have escalated to daily constant WTF moments, I am desperately trying to come up with a plan to escape, I ve been here with her now about 5 months, and its become pure hell daily, anything sets her off daily, what i do , what i dont do, what i should have done, what i missed , what i should think, what i should have been thinking about, ON AND ON (DAILY!). Since I ‘hooked up’ with her in 2011 it s been weird,but as most men in my situation think, i was actually thinking at first it was me that was messing up. She is a master at flipping things around on you and making you feel pure guilt fear doubt on any situation. I am a manly tought guy, but I swear, I feel now daily terror of her, this was my first inclination something is VERT very wrong in this relation, I am so greatful your site exists, without it I would have been driven completely insane by now .
I realize this is an older thread, but it is so pertinent to me right now. What if the abuse only happens when they’re drinking? She’s an alcoholic. She’s a mean drunk. When she’s NOT drinking things are ok. She’s not abusive. She says things when she’s drunk that she denies, and apologizes for when she’s sober.
She’s said she needs to get help for her drinking, but she won’t go to AA meetings. Hes has a therapist, but they don’t talk about her drinking. Supposedly they talk about the “root” causes from childhood.
Which is real? Does alcohol allow her to be truthful, or does is let the abuser out?
You mentioned Jekyl and Hyde. This is an extreme case of it. The monster has hurt me in so many ways that I’m frightened of it. I love the woman, or at least the non-drunk one.
Confused
I’m sorry to hear you’re going through this, I too have been there.
Actions define who you are, she is both of these people, and unfortunately has already laid determent to you and you’re relationship. There is no going back once boundaries are crossed and once you’ve been hurt. You’ll always be walking on eggshells while continuing to justify her actions.
Get out my friend, because you deserve better.
I’m with AceOne on this- the alcohol is a coping mechanism and so is the act of being abusive toward you… and God only knows what she’s trying to cope with. So she’s both people- the good parts you like and the underlying part that is a problem for your relationship. You deserve better & you’re not responsible for rescuing her. Don’t let her bad behavior become your intoxication.
Re-read the article and comments. Was overdue for some cyber-therapy and this hit the spot. Publish this article and its a shoe-in for a Pulitzer prize for non-fiction. So reassuring to read other men who have fallen into the traps laid by these unpleasant people. While we all have our defects, I have plenty, we don’t deserve this abuse & tyranny, nor do the children if you have them.
Eagerly await the next article or series from Dr. T (yes I will contribute a piece for the series).
With many of the other posters, I must say that stumbling upon this site has been a god send. It has provided me some much needed clarity right now, almost a year after I left my emotionally abusive partner. I was with my ex for almost 3 years, and like the articles have pointed out, there were many WTF and red flag moments that occurred that I either ignored or rationalized away. Many of these occurred in the first year even, before we moved in together and while the honeymoon phase was still going on. I trudged on, with the abuse incidents getting worse. About a year ago this time, I laid out guidelines for myself that basically said “if things do not get better and she does not try to make things better by X date, I’m out”. That is exactly what happened. Strike 3 of my guidelines were passed, I found an apartment, and moved out at the end of March. I did A LOT of self study about relationships, BPD, etc., and despite the fact that the proper response was to get out was clear as day, it was STILL one of the hardest things I ever did. But it was also one of the BEST things I ever did.
Which brings me to now and why I’m thankful that I found this site, almost a year after GTFO. Lately I’ve been actually contemplating reconnecting with her, as silly as that might sound. I suppose something in me is still idealizing her and rationalizing away the abuse. I long for the idealized version of her, the one that I fell in love one, and as this site has reminded, the fake version of her. Reading the blog entries and personal accounts here have reminded me of all the reasons why I needed to and did get out of that relationship. I’ve found some greater clarity from this site, and I thank you. I’ve tried dating some in the past year, and I think my residual self doubt and foolish desire to possibly reconnect with the ex have prevented me from connecting with any one new. Those doubts are clearing up, as are my re-connection desires. Whether or not I’m fully ready for someone new remains to be seen, but at the very least right now I know I’m much better off alone than going back to the old and “comfortable”.
I know this is an old thread, but I read most all of this site.
I had too many WTF moments with my girlfriend in China…I brushed them aside but in the end I hit eject and returned back to my home country.
I was massively love bombed at 1st, amazing….she did want to buy me a mountain bike though, in the 1st week of knowing her. I thought it a little odd and refused.
The 1st WTF time I set a boundary and stood tall….it was the silent treatment for no apparent reason on a country walk. It took me at least 40 mins to get any response. I told her it was unaccepable and said I would end the relationship, cue apologies and promises.
I gave her the benefit of the doubt, big mistake!
Then a strange conversation about who is the boss of the relationship….to me this was odd….does a relationship have a boss?
I brushed it off.
A few normal ups and downs followed. The next big one was at the end of my contract and I was going to move 10 hours away to live with her again at her place. I met her with flowers and a big hug, I was ready to make this big move for her….out of the blue a confrontation arrived “When are we getting married? When? When? When?”…so gone was any romantic proposal ideas I may have had.
“Let me get settled in the new place, find a job etc” I asked….”No! WHEN!!!???” (WTF)
I moved to be with her…struggled to find a local job, then she decided to work away from M-F.
So here I was isolated in a strange place and the promise of a new start had evaporated.
I started to crack….
We were to have some friends over for Xmas, she announced that she was going back to work, that they were my friends not hers.
Why? Because I didn’t put my slippers away immediately when she told me too. (WTF)
I looked at her and didn’t recognise her…
I escaped back to my home country, but idiot that I am I kept contact, I loved the love bomb honeymoon girl….I wanted her back.
Via Skype and email we struggled to find the connection….I could come back if I gave her £9000 to prove my sincerity and for a down payment on an appartment. She’s not a golddigger she has more money than me, it was almost like bail money.
Only that amount would do, given in cash as soon as I came back. You can’t carry that amount internationally. OK, I can transfer it to her account before I come….then everything would be just like it was before.
I secured a new job and was about to come back, the weekend before we had a mean angry Skype fight….(there was only one person being mean and angry and it wasn’t me)
I was destroyed….even with the money, giving up my life in the west…it wasn’t enough.
I told her the next day I wasn’t coming….cue death threats, curses, abusive texts the whole night.
I managed no contact for a few weeks….dumb, dumb.
I still hoped for the dream girl, she must be still there…..writing this I feel so stupid.
I bought an airline ticket but my family’s reaction stopped me cold….What was I doing?
Going back to a woman who extorts money, bullies, strops, threatens, lacks empathy and started to look damn unattractive to me.
Thank god….I stopped.
Just had an email showing me her new american boyfriend and wonderful life. Remember I am the bad guy….I left her in the 1st place.
Him and his mom love her so much!
Poor guy!….I wonder how long its kept up this time?
I tooed and fro’d and sent a short reply saying good luck and I’m glad, no snarky comments just that.
I’m not gonna be a sulky bitch…
Then deleted everything…….
I feel cheated the lovely girl I 1st met never existed at all.
I had many WTF moments with my BPD ex. The biggest two was when she felt it was okay to text my own mother and tell her what she should have done in raising me. Who does that crap. If you want a serious long lasting relationship with someone, you NEVER text your significant’s ex to bash them. Then she wanted ME to stick up for her. WTF? She had no boundaries. It was all a control tactic. For me, family will have my best interest at heart.
The second WTF is she regulated who my friends were. She went as far as making it so I couldn’t talk to friends. The cell phone was in her name so she would call people that I called to find out what we talked about and say how she did nothing wrong. My friend knew just in conversation with her she had borderline traits. She would tell me how she is trying to change me. “Oh he is doing so well.” She wanted ULTIMATE control over me.