Earlier today, a gentleman calling himself Craig posted a comment that includes two videos on the article, When Love Hurts: The Emotionally Abused Man, over at the old Shrink4Men WordPress blog.
I hesitated before publishing his comment because his wife’s face is identifiable in the videos. On the other hand, I think it is important for people who doubt that a woman can be abusive to see what an abusive woman looks like in action.
Full disclosure: I do not know this couple’s history. Perhaps these are two isolated incidents, but I doubt that.
Men who are being abused typically film and audio record these incidents because they realize that many people, including law enforcement officials and family court judges and evaluators, won’t believe that they are, in fact, victims of female perpetrated abuse.
Furthermore, most men don’t videotape garden variety conflicts that often arise in even the healthiest relationships. It wouldn’t even occur to them. Men typically make the decision to record these episodes after a pattern of such abuse has been established.
I decided to post it here on the new Shrink4Men since this is the hub where the most active public conversations take place. If you are at work, please lower the volume on your computer, tablet or phone or plug in your earphones before viewing.
after reading all these comments i’m finally realizing i too am in an abusive relationship i have a daughter (9) and I honestly believed staying was the best option for her, but i’m slowly starting to see sense, i feel trapped… anyway i’m the person who pulls out the video recorder if things get bad, and on 2 occasions i did just that, have a look at these 2 videos, sorry for the mess in the video, if i clean up and don’t do it properly i just get told how i never clean and she does it all (in reality, all she does is move crap from 1 room to another)
embedded by Embedded Video
embedded by Embedded Video
2 different videos…. how do these compare to peoples gfs/wives etc … how un-normal is she?!
God is this stuff brutal to watch. To anyone reading this who is living under these kinds of conditions, I don’t know how you do it. I strongly encourage you to take steps to protect yourself and your children. No one should tolerate this kind of treatment. My immediate reply to Craig is that his wife seems like a raving lunatic and I asked if he has spoken with an attorney yet.
What do you think? Should I have published this? I may still take it down.
And what about Craig’s question? How does this woman compare to your wife, girlfriend or ex or your partner’s ex? What advice do you have for Craig?
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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I got through half of the second video and that was all I could take.
Brings back memories.
I think these videos aptly demonstrate what many or most of us lived with for years in a way words just can’t convey.
For that reason, I agree with the publishing.
I agree with Samson. And hearing the daughter in the backseat is heartbreaking.
LT Greenwald says
Ditto to both comments. This is horrifying, and reminds me of my spouse, without the kids, thank god.
I did some quick internet research and it appears that the recordings are legal. He would want to consult with an attorney, though, for sure. In the US, some states require two-party consent. Luckily, I live in a one-party consent state. I recorded my wife on two occasions. In both occasion she sounds just like this woman and she admits to using physical violence and threats of false police reports against me.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Jeebus, LT. I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again, I’m glad you’re getting out.
This appears to be in the UK. It is entirely legal to record another person without that person’s knowledge or consent in the UK.
She’s Australian isn’t she ? Poor poor Craig, i also experienced similar things with my sons on back seat. Men must NOT put up with this EVER EVER EVER, it is not normal and it will ALWAYS end badly. Did Craig’s wife take out legal restraining orders using false accusations (like mine did) ?
She will be the same with next man, 100% guaranteed, i look regularly for deadly news from my ex wife. But the problem is it is all too late for men reading Dr T’s site, bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted. Live and learn
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Agreed, jangle. Especially when she asks her mother to slow down and to quit it.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Thanks, Samson. I hope those are distant memories. Still, it probably doesn’t lessen the pain.
I finally watched them again today for the second time. I have to fight the physical urge to snap my laptop shut when I hear her rantings. I have to wonder if she puts a different face on in front of others. How can it be possible to hide that? Still, many do.
oh yes, she can be charming enough in front of others, but all they have to do is accidentally push any one of her 500 buttons (very easy if they’re not careful) and they’ll see it.
I’ve had her blow up in argument with her Aunti, her Aunti’s (at the time) Boyfriend, her Mother, Her Brother, A friend of her family’s if the person she’s talking to is opinionated there’s going to be serious trouble, guaranteed, the only positive thing she’s given me is the ability to be strong willed and put up with her constant crap over the years, i have a lot of coping mechanisms.. mainly locking myself away and generally taking my frustration out by beating people at a game of cards 😀
she knows how to act normal, and I think that’s basically what it boils down to she tries to act normal but she can’t yes she was abused as a child (raped by her dad from the ages 11 – 14 before she ran away and ended up on the streets to be found and taken in and given to a foster home of which the foster father ended up having sex with her at 17 and marrying her at 25…)
So she’s got serious issues all of which are ‘resolved’ and ‘fine’ im the one with an issue.
I’d just like to say thank you to everyone’s posted here even the 2 of you who thought i was pushing her buttons 😛 – I’m really quite a nice person even to complete strangers probably how i got sucked into begin with, once she realized she could take advantage she did… because to begin with she was just angry and when an argument broke out she’d cry and tell me i don’t love her the rest of the time she would come home from work crying every day…
I did not know better, i was 20 she was 30, id never even been with a woman prior to her, as fas as i was concerned this was all normal and it was just her time of the month, as the months progressed she went from crying to anger, and it just stuck, she’d often make controlling comments, i could make a phone call and ruin your life etc, she had me in complete control, she convinced me she was too old to have children because she was 30 and i was 20 and said if i don’t come off the pill now and have a child i might never be able to, she knew better I thought she did anyway so she came off the pill and got pregnant…
So now i stuck it out, things gradually got worse and worse she even admits things like “oh i stopped saying that you stopped caring” like it’s just fine now to do it but back then no!!! and a lot of yelling and shouting at the top of her lungs…. she still does because “I deserve it” well you know what these last few days have felt like an affair, secretly logging in, making sure i remove the history just so that she does not find this and I have to listen to her say things like “now we know the truth and what you’re really thinking” along with abuse and maybe some more actual physical violence,.
I once while my wife was out do something nice, at this point she was complaining that she’d have to get off her seat and pyshically switch it on, well my background is in computers, id just enable the motherboard to power on via key on your keyboard rather than getting down on the floor everytime.. so she gets home and I tell her, first she’s all busy could not care less, then about an hour later I hear her yelling something so i go over, what’s this error message on my screen, it was not here when i left, why did i get it now? in a very stern (not loud) voice..
Oh, I thought i’d do something nice… what nice is giving me a problem i never had before i left? don’t touch my computer!!!
but but… i was doing something and windows crashed and i had to force a shut down but i had finished anyway and just left it when you got back i was going to show you that you can now switch your computer on with the keyboard without hurting your back.
BUT I NEVER ASKED YOU TO DO THIS
i know i know, i thought i was just trying to be nice..
IN THE FUTURE FUCKING LEAVE MY COMPUTER ALONE EVERYTIME I GO NEAR IT SOMETHING GOES WRONG..
but, it crashed it was not my fault,
STAY THE FUCK AWAY FROM MY COMPUTER
ok ok but you don’t need to bend over now…
I DONT WANT WHAT YOU DID TO MY COMPUTER I DONT WANT OR NEED IT!!
at which point she stormed off..
She already clicked ok on the error popup and the computer was all good and fine as per usual, but i just got my head blown off for being nice or at least in my mind i was being nice and this is how i got treated… i never even got to show her the computer switching on with no effort just pressing the power/enter key on your keyboard..
i got on my hands and knees and then put the jumper back into it’s old position and disabled it from the bios..
You’d expect thanks or awww thanks hun, not me, 8/10 ‘nice’ things i do, all get thrown in my face. so thank you to all these supportive comments, i realized i was in shock mainly Denial, and i’ve realized that everytime it stops i think everything will now be fine from now on, and the last couple of days i’ve been on eggshells just hoping nothing comes up that will upset her i’m very anxious, no wonder i have severe anxiety issues..
So anyway, i’ve had my eyes well and truely opened, but i’m in no mental state to leave and take my child, infact i could barely look after myself, she’s got me to the stage where i believe i’m going to fail before i do it, no self confidence, i’ve lost 3 jobs because of it, until i met her I had no issues with a job any job i had.
thanks 🙂 – i’m coming out of shock and i’m past denial, i’m in realization and now i just got to get my head straight to not only look after myself but my daughter too, i’m have a really hard time with the ‘but daddy why? and then the serious amount of crying sure to be followed” yes she may understand but at the moment they’re both ok with each other, yes the mother has anger issues with her sometimes but overall they’re ok, however dayna did causer her to speed and get her a fine with just those 2 in the car…. dayna upset her and she was just speeding as a result, so yes there’s potential for sure, and if i don’t get custody of her who knows what could happen….
so i’m seeing a psychologist and i was messed up enough before meeting her so i’m in no emotional state to leave quite yet I just need to keep this secret world wide affair from my wife (now tell me not how that can’t be considered cheating on an emotional level lol)
Reminds me of the wife of a former friend, who I’m convinced is BPD and probably NPD as well….My friend begged me to find and send her any links I could find to jobs in her field, because he said I was so good at finding things on the Net. I spent probably a few hours of my evening doing this, stayed up way past my bedtime finding and sending her links that appeared to fit her criteria, probably getting mouse cramp (related to writer’s cramp). I expected her to be pleased. Only to have my friend tell me the next day that she was furious about it, and to please not send her any more links. The look on his face was like he’d been through yet another battle with her and was afraid of another.
They also had another friend–whether before or after this incident, I don’t remember–who they played online games with. This was a game called LunarWars, where you set up your own moonbase, form alliances with others, and engage in wars with other moonbases. He formed an alliance with its own constitution/rules, she joined it and became an officer in the alliance. She wanted to do something that went against the rules, so he said he spent several hours working on a constitutional amendment that would allow her to do this. He was trying to be nice to her. The next morning, he woke to find her ripping him a new one on Internet Relay Chat. Not only did she refuse to listen when he tried to explain that he was trying to help her, but she engaged in a smear campaign against him, telling everyone that it was a power grab, he was being childish, etc. etc. Just total ugliness that ended in him walking away from the friendship.
And oh, she hated me because I had an opinion of my own about how she treated her husband and kids. 😛 So I know all about how these women can seem charming to outsiders, but turn on anyone who has an opinion of their own.
Re your daughter, one way to look at is that even if you were somehow also at fault (and you’re obviously not), what is best for your daughter is to not witness this arguing and fighting anymore. I learned this from the psychologist who did the family report for my partner’s break up. The psych said that it was not my partner who was bad for his children, as his NPDex was accusing him of, but it was their relationship. The psych’s carefully worded caution to his ex fell on deaf ears, but I use it to give him hope that he has done the right thing. As hard as it is now, his children are better off out of that situation. And intially NDPex managed to recruit one of the children to her cause, but that child has now had the wool pulled from their eyes, so it will undoubtedly happen to your daughter too.
And I can back that up from my own life. My siblings agree that it would have been better for us if our parents had broken up. Of course, hindsight is 20/20 vision etc, and for us it was the way it was. But the constant tension and waiting for explosions totally wasted my teenage years at least.
You may not feel strong enough right now, but time away from this woman will heal you, so you may feel out of your depth initially but you will cope much better away from her. The main thing is learning as much as you can before you leave so that you have the best chance of getting yourself and your daughter out of this alive and solvent.
Hey guys, I just came across a GREAT url which gives you a little survey to fill out and then it reports back with your possibile personality, obviously, you can’t JUST rely on this, but if i can somehow get her to agree to do this test (any test usually ends up in her raging her tits off because…… how dare i suggest she’s anything other than absolutely perfect and why should i not do this test and why should i not get help first and sort my self out and THEN come back to her)
but, i was thinking this test is more useful for us guys, if we all share the same common personality, then this is what these types of women prey on, all we do is get them to fill out the form before we even meet them lol…. but here’s my results
If you’re similar to me and also with a similar woman, I’m really curious to see what other people get 🙂 –
i’ll get my wife to do it if you do first, let me know how you go 😀 eek
This is so very familiar. She would rant and rave claims about me being a liar while she was continuously deceitful. She would rant and rave about my financial inadequacy while I worked full time and she squandered the money on drugs and alcohol while laying around doing nothing productive. GET OUT MAN!!! There is no reason to take this abuse not even if you have kids. If you have kids they will be happy to be removed from this environment half the time or whatever custody you are ordered to receive. Get witnessed and document everything so that you have factual information for the court and not just information that the system can deem as hearsay and therefore dismiss. Good luck and stay strong. No one deserves this destructive criticism. A partner builds you up and helps sustain you. They do not just tear you down.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
No one deserves this destructive criticism. A partner builds you up and helps sustain you. They do not just tear you down.
Well said, dan-d-lion.
Yikes. Like Samson it brings back memories for me. Thank god they’re distant memories nowadays.
This guy should leave her and not look back. It’s not clear if the child is his or not but if so it likely
isn’t going to get better if he stays anyhow. I feel sorry for both the man and this child. You can tell
right away that she’s manipulative: “They said things about you, how I should leave you” Clearly he
wants proof in asking who said what- Nope doesn’t matter she says. Guilting and manipulation mixed
with hysterical ranting- I’d walk for sure but it’s easy to say that from where I am.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Yeah, I notice the false consensus/the peanut gallery says blah bitty blah blah blah move, too. Textbook.
I certainly understand the concerns, but am convinced it is far more important to publicly expose these monsters (and they are monsters). Most of them are far too smart to expose this side of themselves in a manner that could force them to be publicly held accountable for their outrageous behavior—which only further convinces me they completely understand what they are doing. Since I’ve divorced my Cluster B I have found it necessary to not just complexly cut her out of my life, but virtually all of our mutual friends as well. She can be one of the most amazingly charming people when she wants to, and this is the side only most have seen. I realized early on that sooner or later I would want to describe to them some of the things that went on, and that I would end up looking like the crazy one (which in a way thanks to years of emotional abuse I was).
So let a little sunshine in.
“complexly” was supposed to be “completely” Sorry
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Most of them are far too smart to expose this side of themselves in a manner that could force them to be publicly held accountable for their outrageous behavior—which only further convinces me they completely understand what they are doing.
I absolutely agree with this. There’s also The Smirk™ that many of them exhibit when they see you wince or that they’ve hurt you or pulled something over on you.If they really believed there wasn’t anything wrong with their abusive behavior, so many of them wouldn’t be freaked out about other people outside of your relationship knowing about it.
clusterB-effed, love your nickname!
Maybe its the activist in me, but I’d like to see more public awareness that these types of people, that is WOMEN, exist. Even when its another woman (ie) me telling people of the behaviour we have all experienced, you can see they don’t believe you. How can a woman possibly be that demonic? Aren’t they all angels? Its like trying to imagine a new colour, they just can’t wrap their heads around it. And don’t get me started about the inherent assumptions and bias in family courts and child support agencies.
Interesting point about their self-awareness or not. On the one hand, I think calling it a personality disorder sometimes lets them off the hook, but on the other I have come to believe a personality disorder is another way of saying they’re not nice people, you know there’s something wrong with their personality… and yet, and yet, I just can’t bring myself to let it slide. Nope, they’re *%$holes, and they know they are, and they should be held accountable.
I wish my XW had been this demonstrative. It would have been easier to explain to folks. Instead, she used the stealth technique:constant criticism, withholding affection, silent treatments, derision> Oh, i guess there were the infrequent cold water dousings while i showered or when fully clothed. But, those would be explained away as just joking around. Not sure how the serial infidelity ranks.
While I do have some egregious instances, they were not as loud or outfront like this woman. Just derision, emasculating remarks, overspending such that I had to work three jobs, and the clandestine cheating.
In many ways, I think it was harder to get to the point where I recognized it as abuse.
I lived with the type of tirades in the videos for years on at least a one every couple of months basis … with the time in between spent trying to delay a recurrence for as long as I could.
And it never struck me that it, and other behaviour, was “abusive” until I came across this site. It was “just the way she was”.
I think many men have difficulty getting their head around the fact that a female could “abuse” them.
I’m still not keen on being identified as a “victim” of “abuse” myself, regardless of how true that may be.
LT Greenwald says
I can relate. I dealt with her tirades 2/3 times per week, usually until 3 in the morning, over a span of 15 months. I called a trusted Army mentor and asked him if this was an acceptable amount of harrassment. Completely shocked, he said, “no!” And, “get the hell out!”
I’m in therapy now and beginning to understand why I put up with it for so long. My mom was a tyrant in the same way, so my wife’s tantrums were “normal” to me.
I feel like a successful marriage for me will be if I can find a woman that doesn’t scream at me more than once a month! 🙂
Dr Tara Palmatier says
The covert abuse can be just as damaging if not more so in some ways. One of the worse effects is how it leaves a person questioning his own judgment, perceptions and memory.
Cousin Dave says
Ron, that was my borderline ex to a T. She was very passive-aggressive. She’d be sweet to my face and then say the nastiest things about me to her friends as soon as I had my back turned. She was also a serial cheater, going so far as to set herself up as a one-woman escort service at one point. She did specialize in finding ways to make me look like a heel in public — for instance, she’d playfully tease me about something, and if I teased her back, she’d suddenly break into a crying jag about how cruel my words were.
Sounds a lot like my wife’s most recent rage out, which occurred… oh yeah, yesterday. Except my wife has an American accent. And yesterday she raged like that for about 1.5 hours, not four minutes like the lady in the videos.
These women truly do read from the same script. Some of what this lady says I swear is taken verbatim from my wife’s back-catalog of classic tantrums.
There’s only so much you can do with insults and cruel remarks, so I guess it’s not surprising they all end up sounding pretty much the same.
The most hurtful thing most five year old kids can come up with … based on their limited experience … is “I hate you”.
Take that same five year old and add twenty years of experience with new words and concepts … and no change to emotional maturity, empathy, etc. … and you have what you see in the videos.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Good to see you here.
The most hurtful thing most five year old kids can come up with … based on their limited experience … is “I hate you”.
Take that same five year old and add twenty years of experience with new words and concepts … and no change to emotional maturity, empathy, etc. … and you have what you see in the videos.
Exactly right. It’s, “I hate you! You’re a meanie poopyhead!” when you’re 5-years old. The emotional maturity isn’t much more, but the vocabulary and propensity to personalize are brutal when a person is an adult with the emotional maturity of a child.
“my wife’s back-catalog of classic tantrums”
That really got me, that’s hilarious! Too bad I can totally relate.
There should be an award show:
November 17, 2006 – the ‘Ashtray Affair’ 90-minutes ranting;
January 11, 2008 – ‘the Cancelled Winter Holiday’ 4 hours screaming, 2 days silence, 4 weeks withheld intimacy, random projectiles;
August 23, 2011 – The Forgot The Bagels episode, 2 hours screaming, 1 smashed computer, 1 affair with her ex …
“And the Oscar for Wacko goes to … Cancelled Winter Holiday January 11, 2008. Accepting the award for Crazy Pants will be her psychiatrist, Dr. Seymour Crazy.
I remember my ex-wife managed to rant and rage ‘non-stop’ during one particular 3-hour drive returning home from a trip to Canada. They are amazing.
This video, sadly, with a different face is similar to things I’ve seen before, and worse, tried to interact with using logic and reason … it’s like trying to blow out a hurricane.
It’s gruesome! Thank God that’s all in the past.
This is not what I am experiencing at all. If anything, this makes me feel like I should not complain. Or that I’m blowing my own situation out of proportion.
But the verbal material on the rest of the site just hits the nail on the head.
I’m actually feeling quite confused right now.
But only about my situation. This guy in the video needs to get himself and his kids away from that woman. Same goes for anyone else who finds these scenes too familiar.
T185, perhaps you are dealing with someone like my XW. No real rages(well very rarely and not this severe).
I have seen the more subtle stuff(if you can call long term silent treatments and constant criticism subtle) called “ambient abuse”. It is pretty much omnipresent, but an outsider may not see it, at first.
I wish my XW was as obvious as this woman.
Mr. E says
(I didn’t watch the videos because I find this kind of thing too disturbing to watch)
TI85, as ron7127 said, they’re not all obvious. When my wife rages, it’s usually more of a scolding/lecture than a screaming tantrum. She makes accusations that she can claim were jokes. She constantly, constantly criticizes me – so much that when I was journaling this stuff I couldn’t even keep track of it all.
What I deal with instead is a nearly* constant, low-grade contempt. I don’t dare speak up when she does something wrong. I’m constantly on guard for what’s going to set her off next. She has an enormous, ever-growing list of responsibilities and tasks for me. She won’t listen to me talk about my interests – or if she does, her reply when I’ve finished talking is a put-down. She claims to support my dreams but undermines me every step of the way.
It’s not necessary to scream and be physically violent to crush a person’s soul.
*I say nearly because, as is the case with all of these women, sometimes she’s a sweetheart. That’s the real mindf*ck.
Wow…that’s about of perfect description of my Crazy. “A constant, low-grade contempt”. I think you are right, those types may be worse than the screaming ones, since the abuse is much more protracted and subtle. Over time you wear down like a river wears down a rock.
Oh, you get the “constant low grade contempt” … and the rest of the package … as well.
The raging “tantrums” are just an added bonus. 🙂
Yup, that’s about right. Thanks for the reality check.
T185, It can be really hard to work out if you are the crazy one if your partner is a high functioning one – I only worked it out post-divorce with the help of a good T
Chronic low grade disrespect can be so damaging, because you question all aspects of your own reality
much strength man…but get the hell out ASAP. she’s a lunatic.
I’ve watched these a few times now, and I’m not sure what exactly to think. She’s ranting to be sure, but he seems to be doing a good job of pushing her buttons and goading her, especially in the first video. I’m not sure how wise it is to wind up Crazy while she’s driving a car with your kid in the back seat (who at one point says mommy’s driving 100mph). I think the better choice would be to bite your tongue and let the ranting wear down….better that than wrapping the car around a tree, unintentionally or otherwise.
Is he arguing and going toe to toe with her because he is still in that fog we were all in at one point where we think if we magically string the right words together, Crazy will go “I’ve never thought of that! I see your point!”, or is he enjoying winding her up (a willing argument participant)?
P_D: Probably he has has not discovered (or been educated) that the only way to deal with her is to disengage. Most of us here who have been in long-term relationships with a Cluster B have learned that responding to them with rational arguments will only cause them to escalate more. Cluster B’s view facts as their enemies, because facts undermine what to them is the truth — i.e., the truth being whatever they happen to *feel* at the moment.
“Craig” isn’t there yet. Give him time.
I didn’t watch the first video.
I agree that if he was pushing her buttons in the vehicle, it doesn’t show great judgement on his part.
That being said, we all know how screwed up a person’s outlook can get when you’re sucked into the PDs reality. The entire relationship can become a rather sick game without you even being aware that this has happened (until you look back on things a few years later.).
You make a very good point…if someone showed a tape of me in an argument with my HCP a few years ago, I would probably look and sound unbalanced too. 🙂
No, it gets worse. When you learn to disengage, you now become the cold, calculating brute. As my life has progressed into the realm of “social services” and family court, it is screamingly obvious that behaving in a reasonable, controlled and articulate manner demonstrates to the system that I am a cold-blooded killer waiting to happen. It is horrid, but I have been learning that I have to portray myself as a whimpering victim, quiet, beaten, CONCERNED ONLY WITH THE WELL-BEING OF MY CHILDREN. And when I do this, oh, the psycho STBX explodes in anger in front of the estrogen mafia, declaring that I’m faking it. But when I try to explain in a calm, rational adult manner why a behavior is inappropriate and causing emotional harm to my children, I become a scary freak, every time.
It’s a fucked up system, one I have no problem calling evil.
This is scarily on point, bubbajoebob. I practically watch my husband turn into someone different with his ex and even daughters. The way it works is, if he says something calmly and gently but truthful about inappropriate behavior (using SET techniques) it is hurtful. And that makes it scary and mean and they become victims of the horrible monster they see him as. The world only works in their bubble and by their rules, and if they wail loudly enough and long enough, everyone will accommodate them.
He’s given up on the ex but he still tries pushing through this with his daughters and holding them accountable. They are 9 and 13 and spend 12 days of every 14 with their mother, so who knows what chance of success there is.
Basically, if you don’t have kids with them, get as far away as possible, as fast as you can. If you have kids with them, we’re here to give you virtual hugs.
B Experienced says
Ironically, a person who isn’t a BPD to begin with can come out of the relationship with a lot their pathology and have elements of their PD. It is a kind of acquired and hopefully transient type PD.
I think posting that material is a positive for any man who is in the situation and does not realize how insane it is. When you can witness a stranger acting this way it hits home how inappropriate the behaviour really is and how going through it yourself is wrong – unhealthy – and should be motivation to make changes immediately.
1 2 The Chops says
I have to agree here. Even though it is hard to watch, someone inside that situation does not necessarily see what is really happening. They watch it once, and it’s easy to see.
Yes good point
Craig, Please take your daughter and leave. You are both in serious danger. Take those videos to a lawyer. You need legal help and trauma counselling and maybe help for your daughter too.
HUGS to you
I am EXTREMELY concerned for the child in this situation. She can be heard in the background openly asking the mother to slow down.
Craig – if you can’t protect yourself, please, PLEASE protect that child from the emotional trauma that she is experiencing watching your interactions with this woman.
IF you are not her target, because you leave, that child WILL become her target and she does not have the option of leaving. Please SHOW this video to your local Child Protection Authority.
There is context to every interaction, much not clear here, given the snippet we can see, however, these behaviours are extreme and concerning.
In the second video, at one point the woman says to Craig, “YOU should be going to the psychologist.” She’s right about that; never underestimate the damage that can be caused by being subjected to this kind of behavior on a daily basis.
Dr. F says
Dr T, there’s no need to be in a quandary about this.
The fact that there is a flurry of posts regarding this article says in itself that you touched on nerves and people are responding in the normal way.
These are not posts ridicule or words motivated by something dredged up from the school yard.
No, what we’re seeing here right now are bunch of people relating to what they see and are moved to share their thoughts and histories regarding this matter.
There’s an ongoing debate on whether or not these “monsters” should be exposed to the public in these video tapes. First the guy in Texas and now this guy. First let me say I hope the debate isn’t about these people’s rights to private lives. Part of the reason women like this behave this way is because everyone is so quick to defend their rights as human beings. I for one am sick of women like this automatically being given the benefit of the doubt. It’s ridiculous.
Think about this. If some woman suspected her boyfriend was abusing her child and she decided to set up a hidden camera to catch him because no one believed her and posted it for the world to see; Yes it would be graphic and messed up, but the last thing on anyone’s minds would be the scumbag’s right to privacy.
The entire world would stand up and make sure that he is locked away. And if by some chance he doesn’t get killed in prison for abusing children, once he gets out he’d have to register as an offender so that the entire community knows what kind of person he is.
Why is this woman or any other woman like her any different. She is a terrorist in the true sense of the word, holding her boyfriend/husband and child hostage. The same way physical abuse is devastating for women, mental abuse is torture to us men. I think women like her should be brought up on abuse charges given the fact that they have no problem performing for the camera like a bank robber with no mask. And every one of these women in these videos always admit to physical abuse (that they did off camera) on top of their ranting with the words, “You deserve it,” as their only defense.
And whether they get probation or forced to attend anger management or some other type of program, they also should be required to register with a national database for abusive women, just like sex offenders and Felons. That way they don’t have the option of preying on some other unsuspecting man.
DEFINATELY keep these posted.
What’s clear is the consistent pattern in which an issue cannot be discussed because one party, victimizer, is ranting & raving — which is just a means of forcing distraction/changing the subject.
Also clear is the routine use of counter-accusations, or, pre-emptive accusations that, in the calm of considered review, clearly show the victimizer to be accusing the victim of precisely those things the victimizer is really guilty of. Classic projection. Also, probably, indicates the degree of self-loathing as the victim is the proxy for the victimizer to, to some significant degree, be actually ranting & raving at themselves.
I’ve found, with one person, that when their clear pattern shows them getting fired up to rant & rave I’ll just immediately & enthusiastically agree with whatever they’re starting to rant/complain/etc. about (provided that agreement isn’t really admission of any serious guilt–‘you left your socks on the floor’…’I sure did & I’m picking them up–I’ve even set aside my darks & colors & will be doing a load of wash for you…etc. It kind of takes the steam out of their attack when they’re so used to a very different response; throws them off balance for a while).
Basically I was inspired to this tactic by a scene from the movie, “The Lion in Winter,” starring Peter O’Toole & Katherine Hepburn. In that scene, the queen (Hepburn) is trying to provoke the king (O’Toole) who changes tactics by tacitly agreeing with, or pre-emptively undermining her attempts at set-ups; when she mentions someone he quickly interjects a positive remark over & over…and this ultimately sets her up to a mini-fit of frustrated rage: “Oh will you quit that!!” or something like that.
Of course, its a temporary tactic, situational dependent, and prone to fail over time as the victimizer adjusts accordingly. But responding differently, and agreeing when one can where it doesn’t matter, basically takes away their steam.
Wow, just like my ex. I could put her face on this woman’s and would be exactly the same sh*t. I hope this guy’s getting out and fast.
Dr. T, as tough as this is to watch, I agree with your decision to post it on your blog. Hopefully it will be the wake up call to other men in similar situations. Like I’ve said before you have amazing courage.
LT Greenwald says
I was talking with a good friend of mine and we came up with the “Two Rules of Crazy” for the Cluster Bs:
1. DO NOT let down the facade of normalcy until AFTER the first child is born. Otherwise, hubby can wise up and leave your ass. My wife violated this first rule of crazy.
2. Moms have carte blache to indulge in the crazy, especially single moms. This rule is a corallary to Rule #1. Cluster B’s are not fit to be mothers. My mother is uBPD and she has wreaked havoc on my life and my sister’s life. My sister and I have had incredibly abusive, dysfuntional relationships. We’re in our 30s and have no children. I’m separated and my sister has a childlike, recovering addict husband who she has basically raised.
Fellow shrink4men readers, what other “Rules of Crazy” can you think up?
B Experienced says
I don’t use the F word, but what does come to my mind is that the kind of Mothers the Cluster B ones usually are rhymes with sucker and doesn’t have anything to do with Mother Goose and nursery rhymes. Nor should it be legally allowed.
LT Greenwald says
Oh yeah, Cluster B’s should have their uterus’s removed! Seriously! My mother has wreaked havoc on my life and my sister’s life. She’s 65 now and hasn’t mellowed a bit!
I’m sure my wife will get re-married. I doubt she’ll get the help she needs. She’s not capable of introspection. Then she’ll have kids and the cycle will continue… It’s sad…
“what other “Rules of Crazy” can you think up?”
Simple: “Sex brings’em back”
Optionally: “fix it with tears”
I was raised to believe in an honorable panacea: ‘Love’ heals all wounds*
LT Greenwald says
I like your “sex brings ’em back” rule. But the smart Cluster B needs to stay attractive and enticing. My wife, alas, quickly gained 20 pounds since we got married. I have no problem if I want to get sex because I actually managed to stay in good shape — physically and mentally.
And “fixing it with tears” only works for so long — 2 years in my case. The smart Cluster B will get pregnant and then really be able to hold hubby hostage for at least 18 years and 9 months! 🙂
LG … True!
Amended: “Sex brings’em back – pregnancy holds’em”
Cousin Dave says
A few more:
“What’s yours is ours, but what’s mine is mine.”
“I have choices. You have responsibilities.”
“It’s different when *I* do it!”
Dr. F says
What other “Rules of Crazy” are there ?
When sanity presents itself as a shriveled Pommes Noisettes on a large white plate in a French à la Carte restaurant, it’s accepted to wave it away and request something of substance.
If you were looking the other way while the waiter puts the plate down before you, you might want to prepare yourself that such an impoverished serving of sanity comes with a caveat and that’s this:
All bets are off with the limit of “Rules of Crazy” or R.O.C. (I am not referring to an enormous legendary bird of prey, but then again it may suit somewhat.)
When dealing with a nut of human size the ROC acronym may carry a precursor letter, or forward addition in the form of the letter “C”. CROC is the upgraded platinum version of the garden issued or vanilla variety of the ROC.
“Countless Rules of Crazy” is a never ending hair raising ride on a roller-coaster without pause or finality. The purveyor of CROC is mercurial in nature and is immune to reproach or mortality in any way. Scientific studies have shown that pharmaceutical intervention fired at the CROC purveyor comes off second best in results when compared to a Gibbon safely docking a nuclear submarine for example.
Nothing can pierce it’s petrified leather casing. Not sanity poured over it from another, not soothing talk or an ear larger than a Frisbee to collect it’s constant wail. Nothing.
With it’s benign by comparison kid brother ROC, the nut handler can be rested somewhat by the knowledge of the beginning and the ending of the list of rules, or “Sanity-Hampered Individual Tome.”
The CROC purveyor, however, is self sustained and like an amoeba will change it’s shape to fit ergonomically into any environment. The nut handler, or weirdo-wrangler with the more stoutly presented CROC purveyors will never feel rested by a set of rules can take the purveyor anywhere.
Further reading of this CROC issue can be read in my upcoming book, “Pole Vaulting the Nut Wall.” and my much discussed, “Countless Rules of Crazy of the Sanity-Hampered Individual Tome. [Subtitled] CROC of SHIT.
LT Greenwald says
Dr. F, a great read as always! 🙂
Boy oh boy…compared to what I dealt with…at least HE could get in a word edgewise. Mine would rage, and shout over anything I tried to say. She would also scream at such a high pitch…her words were often unrecognizable. Chilling…
Iron John says
“…I’m not a bitch..” LOL! Maybe not, but I think I saw the face of the devil himself in the second video.
It was very difficult to watch these. It did seem that Craig was egging her on a bit knowing that he would get an even more hostile reaction. I’m not saying he doesn’t have a problem with her and after 9 years maybe he just can’t stomach the abuse any more. The scary part for me is I thought for years this was normal behavior for my STBXW (still waiting on the judge to rule on motions). It took an act of physical violence for me to reach the WTF moment. Since the court proceedings she has been trying to make all nice but the facade slips every so often. I’m NOT fooled by the act. He needs to get out ASAP. I would but I don’t have anywhere to go and she has places but won’t leave. Since she isn’t physically violent anymore I can’t force her out.
Everyone I grew up with a Paranoid Schizophrenic mother who acted almost exactly like this woman. She should be tried on Prolixin or Ambien to see if that slows her down. She might be a completely different person if she was on the right medications. The guy should get away from her if he can, but if he wants to stay she should be seen by a psychologist and evaluated for Paranoid Schizophrenia.
B Experienced says
This is Cluster B ranting and blaming. Did your Mother have Cluster B personality disorders or traits which can be comorbid with Schizphrenia? She could also have the Paranoid PD traits that are sometimes seen before Schizophrenia appears and remain after they are medicated? Paranoid PD traits are always in BPD and this is how they display in BPD. They can use anti psychotics and mood stabilizers with BPD too. People with Paranoid PD traits and Schizophrenia differ than this. They don’t tend to be this combative and accusatory and are far less volatile, although once in a while they may rage. People with Paranoid PD traits tend to get suspicious and attacking about other things than the BPD does a lot of the time. The BPD’s are like clones so it is very easy to differentiate. A BPD’s paranoia tends to be more apparent that it isn’t true. A person with Paranoid PD can make it seem like it could be true so it is hard to be around these people.
Dr T is right in that it takes a lot of this for a man to even think of recording it. And it is because you are so afraid of what they will do next. How did I live with it? Because it comes and goes, and you hope in the good periods that things have changed, but they always go back..
This is mine, I’ve posted it before a while back I think…
1 2 The Chops says
HOLY CRAP! I have just had a major flashback! I lived with this thing for 20 years. I left my home with the clothes on my back 1 year ago, this last monday, at about 6:30 in the evening. I listened to that very same kind of rant, only with a louder “screaming” (you know the kind, veins in the neck and forehead looking like their going to pop any second). My soon to be ex went on a two day, top of the lungs rant, until I just couldn’t take it any longer.
My advice, if you are seeing this behavior in your own relationship, get out now! It will never get better. It will never stop. It will simply get worse. Please read the blogs, get some advice from them, take what you learn here and get out and on with your life. Don’t waste half your life trying to fix it, you can’t.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Craig posted a comment on the old blog. I’ve posted it below and will email Craig and encourage him to join the conversation here.
Thanks for responding back to me 🙂 …
You’re very much right about everything you’ve said, these clips are relatively short in comparison, she’s slammed the door wide open putting a nice big hole in the shape of a door handle…
Outbursts like this happen on average once or twice a month, most of the time it’s just general yelling and I have to think of everything before i approach her with anything, almost everything sets her, obviously the usual things that causes stress like money, but she will gladly fly off at me for peeling potatoes in the sink… she thinks her ex was stalking her, she tells me i’m too stupid to basically understand what she says ‘so of course i don’t understand i’m too stupid’ this has been going on for 10 years, I thought this was normal behavior and when you hear of PMS and all the other women issues women seem to have i honestly believed this was normal, she honestly scares me, there’s times I was literally scared from her returning home because I felt like a child eg, I broke a small vase.. there is no equality in this relationship,
and i’ve tried everything from silence, i once broke my finger hitting the fridge because the emotional pain of her screaming and following me around the house constantly yelling at me made me go to the fridge and hit it…
now the pain of a mangled up fist (3 dent marks on the fridge freezer door) and break my finger, well in all honesty the pain in my head from her constant abuse was pretty much on par with the pain i suffered from braking my bone… really, there’s very little in it, except 3 hours later the emotional pain has died down my hand on the other hand was still broken.
I’ve had her accuse me of cheating, she would often yell at me for not doing enough (eg getting the shopping, etc) so anyway because i’m now seeing a psychologist and she’s been helping me regain some self confidence and helped me to understand I was not to blame, I honestly believed this was normal and my fault… so anyway, I start shopping doing more then I get accused of going to visit women because i spent an extra 15 minutes browsing the isles instead of rushing back home.
Everything she says she will do she never does and always pins the responsibility on me, problem with the car my fault, problem with her computer, well i must have broken it then, i was the last one to touch something therefor it’s my fault.
I have hours and hours and hours worth of material I could type and even though each event takes only 2 minutes or so to type out the basics each episode can last anything up to 3 days before she returns back to baseline (until someone, anyone upsets her again) …..
Anyway thank you for putting those videos up for people to see,i’ve honestly tried everything, stay calm and rational, she just yells, yell back she yells harder, say nothing at all she just keeps on yelling….
So yeah, I may have pushed her buttons in those 2 videos, but they were very very light presses, I could get her on video showing her very very worst, and believe me, these 2 videos are nothing, you should see her when she spends all day in bed telling me how her life is all fucked up and how she has nothing and how i was supposed to change something…
When she is happy it’s shortlived until someone upsets and back into that depressive cycle, the drugs she was on were SSRI’s to help, and they did work, yes she was still quite angry but shorter outbursts, less crying, eg few days ago i got up and she was not talking to me, i asked what’s wrong, she told me i’d not understand and refused to tell me…
But then what? Walk off, have her accuse me of not caring? So i stayed, tried for about 5 minutes THEN i walked off…. problem is she wants to discuss ‘issues’ that’s a lie, she just looks for an excuse to treat me like crap and yell at me,,,
I myself have taken the toll, 4 years ago I became unemployed, I tried 2 more jobs, each time I had to leave because of severe anxiety attacks..
back home i’m yelled at for doing something wrong i’m told i’m an idiot, what planet am i from, this constant abuse has had such an effect my doctor stuck me on anti depressants just so I can leave the house.. but each job interview I just hear in my mind her voice and I just go to pieces, so the pychologist (poor woman) is trying to help me deal with my problems just so i’m mentally strong enough to move on, and I’m not at the moment.
Hi Dr T,
I have not read any of the above comments. I’m virtually certain I’m saying something that has already been stated, but I’m saying it anyways! It is a great service that you posted those videos. Many of us who are subjected to crazy need to see it more objectively to make decisions.
As to my own situation. My case is exactly as you described. I would never dream of tape recording, but was eventually driven to do it. I originally recorded to accumulate evidence for trial. I was extremely ambivalent about divorce because of my two young children ages 3 and 4. I eventually evolved from staying together for the sake of the children to divorcing for the sake of the children.
Here is what I found. A great unexpected side effect of the recordings for me was that it was my listening to them that put me over the edge and got me committed to divorce. Frankly when I listened to the tapes, I thought I sounded like a whimp. When I’m in the middle of those crazy episodes of verbal abuse I think I’m being calm and rational. Those recordings helped me make my final decision.
Unfortunately the judge discounted the recordings tremendously. My state has a strong predisposition towards joint physical and joint legal. I asked for joint legal and physical. My wife asked for primary. I “won” and got joint legal and physical but my wife has kids about 60% and me 40%. The recordings included lots of rants and swearing in front of the kids, parental alienation, black white thinking, and a couple of very direct intentional calmly stated threats to kill me. I don’t think the judge gave them nearly the weight they deserved. He said they were always suspect since I knew when they were recorded and the wife did not. Also they argued that the recordings were in the distant past from a short period of time so may not reflect current state of affairs.
In the end, even with concrete audio or video evidence, the only people who might know the truth are the two people involved. That’s why I say the best use of recordings may be to make the divorce decision rather than help in court. Hearing my own recordings is tremendously eye opening, and seeing/hearing very similar ones of other couples is the next bes thing. Posting those videos is a great service. Thank you.
Dr F, if you dealt with the CROC, how did it go? Seems you are pretty well equipped, verbally, to have taken her on. Or, could you not get a word in, edgewise?
Dr. F says
Good question. The answer seemed difficult so I tried many things to see what might work.
First, I tried soothing words and being a good listener with negative inquiry about my own “disgraceful” behaviour. Then I moved to nods only. After that is was a slippery slope with my trying several different techniques.
I tried to look upon her as a loud two dimensional image who’s face was constantly in the shape of the letter “O”, Siberian earmuffs were next, and then when the objects from the CROC were thrown the Roswell full body UFO retrieval suit was worn.
Soon after that I upgraded to the robot arms stroking her hair behind the 3 inch perspex glass coupled with my kind words through the titanium grille.
Believe me I tried everything, tongs, helmets, slide shows… hell, I even tried strutting about in a tutu I was so desperate.
In the end I created an enormous and window shaking sonic boom with my exiting the house forever.
Glad you got out,Dr F. Once out, I began to heal and see how incredible the CROC was.
Thank you for posting this! It helps to validate my painful experiences with my ex-wife. Her behavior was far
worse an the videos shown here – she would beat me with a pot, a broom, yell at me and not let me speak. She even pulled a chefs knife on me!
One thing that I took from the relationship was that, for whatever reason, I am not good at choosing mates for myself. Looking back, i always chose for money, for convenience, for looks. Having had a rough childhood, Perhaps I was secretly attracted to someone who would abuse me. At my parents behest, I enrolled in a compatability matching relationship site (I won’t say which one). I only met a few people, but each was the best date I ever had. Each could have been a best friend to me in my opinion.
The woman I met there … We just adore each other. Three years and no fights at all. At most, a very civil and forgiving argument or two. I am in true relationship bliss! I am so PROUD to say that i am a survivor of spousal abuse … And that I am now with a wonderful and amazing woman. I feel truly blessed.
Joe Cron says
I agree, it’s distressing to hear the child in be back of the car pleading “mummy”. Imagine the detrimental impact on that little person.
I never thought I would say this, but that woman is more abusive than my wife. (who is very abusive.) Poor fellow. There is no reasoning with a person like this. She takes no responsibility, it’s all his fault.
God, someone must have recorded the outburst my wife had at walmart today over a TV that I was spending my bonus on for her. She threw a fit in front of the entire store. She is on one of her spending sprees and I am thinking of a strategy of how to get the hell out.
She will be ok and apologize to me and the calm will last for all of a day, if that. I have witnessed so many of these outburst in the past 9 years, it would have to count into the thousands.
Hopefully I can find the balls to final end this miserable relationship. My fear is that she will do what all these other guys wives do, and that is false allegations of abuse.
Maybe I can go to Walmart for the security video. It was classic.
Thats all I would here, that she would call police saying I hit her. I took photos of my wounds and saved every message, nasty and nice, to show the Jeckyl and Hyde. She’ll be servred soon with her Divorce papers, I’m done. Good Luck.
This made my heart race so quickly, I’m shaking. Gentlemen, Please if sounds familiar you have to leave. God bless.
I’ve been struggling to find a way to find hope in my relationship with my wife. I have been told that “I need help” and “things would be better if I just stopped trying to push my opinion on her” along with a pile of other accusatory/blaming statements.
I’m having a hard time accepting the fact that I am being abused even though I know that my mental and emotional state prior to us marrying was much better than what I carry with me now. Looking back I see the self-confident motivated man that I was and I wonder where that has all gone. Seeing these videos is almost like seeing my relationship from a third person point of view. Being berated like that is an absolutley demeaning way to live a life. My wife has been using the “yelling program” as I call it ever since she learned that crying wasn’t damaging enough to me to cause me to “change my ways” and “become a real man”.
She had one of her rare moments of kindness last night and invited me to go to see a band. I asked who they were to see if I knew the band. She proceeded to scream at me that if I don’t want to go I should just tell her that. She then went with one of her friends to see them without me. Fast forward to today after work. I called her to let her know I was on my way home and she mentioned the band played some good music. She then proceeded to tell me that in a healthy relatioship each partner should be willing to do things with the other that you don’t want to do. I then asked her about the numerous times I’ve asked her to join me while I am working on our family farm on an evening or weekend. Kaboom, the yelling started again. I just ended up burying myself in a project out in the yard so when she came home I would be busy.
I haven’t recognized the signs before now. The many talks with friends and family where they’ve said she seems “arrogant” or “controlling” just didn’t fit together until now. This is a terrible way to live. I believe that God is love and we are meant to help one another with that love. But what does someone do to help another that refuses to admit there is a problem? Do I just walk away from a covenant that I formed with her?
“Do I just walk away from a covenant that I formed with her?”
Hey 78 … some thoughts:
I’ve seen this question before, both inside my own head, and in comments by others. Somewhere there was a posting similar that I commented on buried on Dr T’s ‘original shrink4men’ website.
Essentially my point was – did you really form this noble covenant ‘with her’ … or just in your imagination and romantic and/or religious idealism?
As you committed to this ‘covenant’ with her, did you also knowingly agree to her sole right: to be arrogant, to berate you, to be controlling, to destroy your confidence over time, to use yelling as her principal form of communication for dealing with relationship issues, to turn you into someone who fakes being busy to avoid his wife’s return … probably a fair bit of walking on eggshells to avoid setting her off, swallowing your words, not expressing your needs?
Because that is the day-to-day reality of the ‘covenant’ that she formed with you as far as she’s concerned. Is that the same convenant that you are saying you formed with her, and that you are now compromising your life to honor?
I stayed in an psychologically harmful, progressively deteriorating situation due to a completely misplaced alliance to a higher ideal that the woman I was involved with was totally incapable of holding herself to. What I called ‘vows’ meant progressively less and less to her, and were nothing that she would compromise her behavior for.
These sort of women are quick to use high sounding language like “work together” or “compromise for the relationship” or as you quote “willingness to do things with the other” … so long as you realize this only is said because it sounds good – but it only applies to her needs.
Do you see evidence of a mutual contract operating? Of two people who entered into the same agreement? It doesn’t sound like it from what you’ve written. z
This is *EXACTLY* what my kids and I deal with on a daily basis!
It’s awful! ..you did the right thing posting it here!
These videos sounds exactly like my sons wife. My wife was listening from the kitchen and though it was our daughter-in-law.
You did the right thing posting.
I’ve been reading this site for about a month and a half now after an ‘awakening’ experience.
Long story short about the moment that turned me on to her behavior was after a weekend that I spent helping my 90 y/o grandparents with simple tasks around the house while my father was traveling for work and my uncle was dealing with health issues regarding his mother. I live 400 miles away from my family but that doesn’t stop me from being there when I am needed. When I returned home from that weekend I was told that I went there for approval and validation, that I helped my family to gain recognition and that it was a selfish thing for me to do. I found this site the next day.
I’ve been married just over a year now and have been with my wife for almost years now. She had moments before we were married, but I attributed it to the stress of planning our wedding. There was one night that she smashed a $60 video game and proceeded to cut some of my clothes with a razor blade, all because I asked her to wait 5 minutes for me to finish something. She would get mad over little things, but I always brushed it off as stress. She was constantly telling me that things were the way they were because I wasn’t doing something, or if I was, I was doing it wrong.
Over the past few months she has been telling me she wants a divorce, that she’s kissed another guy when she was out with some friends one weekend and to top it off she racked up $4300 in credit card bills after we had just returned from a weeks vacation at an all-inclusive resort to celebrate our one-year anniversary. At that point, on top of the comments about helping my grandparents, I had had enough. She was talking about divorce and after a few minutes of thinking about it I told her I wanted one too. She immediately turned around and said she didn’t want one, that she is going to try to make this relationship work by giving me another chance.
About the credit card bill… I was able to look around the house while she was away one time and when she returned I confronted her about how much she spend and how much certain items cost. She purchased 4 purses which she said cost $300 total. Through my snooping I was able to find the cost of 3 of them, $650, $575 and $60. On top of that I found out that she ordered birth control which she never told me about. I’ve never minded it when she purchased something on her credit card and her typical bill was around $600 a month. Luckily the credit card is in her name but she still pays it out of our joint bank account. It’s the lying that I can not stand, and if she catches me in a lie, regardless of how small it is, she blows up at me and she could be replaced for the woman in the video. There were times I was scared to come home, and I’m twice her size.
I put her in her place over the 4th of July holiday. I went back to my hometown and she stayed at home (my company gave us a 5-day weekend) before going to her parents home for the weekend party that her aunt was hosting. The Sunday before the 4th of July our parents had left from their weekend visit and she became very quiet and withdrawn. In the past she had told me to get her mind off of what was bothering her if she didn’t want to talk to me about it. I tried doing that by suggesting things to do and showing her that I wanted to spend time with her. After 30 minutes of getting nothing from her I said forget it, I’m going golfing. A few hours later when I returned home she kept moving from room to room as I entered trying to talk with her. We slept in different rooms that night.
Monday morning when I woke up I tried to talk to her for a few minutes before I went to work, but she ‘was too tired’. I went all day not talking to her and when I called on my way home she said that she was going out with a friend to a movie that I had wanted to see with her the day before. I asked her where she was going and with whom and she didn’t tell me. I called twice during the night and left one voicemail but she didn’t return either call and didn’t even bother to wake me up when she got home. I woke up alone and only discovered that she was home when I saw the spare bedroom door closed. I went in to talk with her and again she was ‘too tired’. I told her that I was leaving for my hometown after work and would see her Friday at her parents house. I called three times on my 6 hour drive and she did not return my calls. The next day I called three times and again, I heard nothing from her. That night I was talking with my parents (I was thinking of a way to break the news) and they had asked if I had heard from my wife and I said no. My mom asked me, “what, does she not like you?” I broke down and told them everything about the emotional and sometimes physical abuse that I’ve been going through.
I didn’t bother to call her on Thursday and on Friday her father called me asking what time I would be at his home. I called back and told him that I wasn’t coming because I needed to help my cousin and told him that she hasn’t picked up or returned my calls all week, which to his surprise, he told me that she told him that I hadn’t called her all week. She called me a few minutes after I was done speaking with her father and asked me why I lied to him about calling. The next day (Saturday) her mother called me telling me that I needed to come to the party and I spoke with my wife again. I told her that I would not be coming unless she opened up to me and told me what was going on from the previous week and what she had spent $4300 on. I gave her several opportunities to tell me, but each time she refused so I was firm about not coming. The next day she called me again and I told her she needs to talk to me about what is going on, and she told me that because I didn’t go to the family party she ‘did not owe it to me to talk about what was bothering her’. I told her that I wanted to talk and that she should come home and talk to me. She said she didn’t want to talk about it so I told her to stay at her parents house and don’t come home, and I promptly hung up on her. She texted me shortly after and asked me if I meant what I said and I said ‘yes, if you don’t want to open up to me stay at your parents, otherwise come home and talk to me’
Ever since she came home that night (although we didn’t talk about our relationship) she has been incredibly nice to me and I’ve recognized that as a hoovering tactic. I am not falling for it this time. I’ve utilized the ‘peace time’ to separate myself from her financially and have talked to a few lawyers. I am ready to make the split, I am just waiting for the right moment, which due to certain circumstances, will be tonight. Although I am not fully prepared I think I’ve done a good enough job that I am ready for what she is about to come.
P.S. – my friends gave me the nickname ‘Frown’ when we were dating and she made me feel bad about spending a long weekend with them during my spring break in college. That was almost 5 years ago. I’ve spoken with my three best friends and my sisters boyfriend, and they all tell me that I sound like a new man. Time to finish the job and get out of this marriage (if you can call it that)
marc holmgren says
Craig, I do not know how you put up with the abuse….honestly, I dont. I would have sucked it up and left the country…I hope that she gets the counselling and medication she needs, while you find a way to get outta dodge city.
My BPD mother is worse than this woman. Her rages are primal. She’ll hit, slap, smash objects at the one she’s yelling at. But the pattern is the same: screaming over every little thing, twisting reality so that she’s never wrong, rabid righteous rage..Impossible to reason with her. Requesting that she not call you names or break things or steal or lie, any request is met with fury and she goes ballistic. Abuses you even more rabidly and tries her best to smear you and isolate you from family.
I have so many memories of my parents fighting in the car, speeding at dangerous levels. Many of the words and patterns are identical. These are disgusting individuals who have to “win” at all costs, and winning to them means denigrating the other person, tearing them down, untill they believe they are worthless, powerless, crazy.
My mother was very violent as well as physcially abusive. Yet she maintained a stellar public image that was just stunningly opposite of her at home personality. She is very good at coming across stable, caring, sweet in public. Even around certain family memebers. She’s very consistant in that regard, and never has slipped up when it comes to her public persona. She’ll smile sweetly if you try to bring up something she did in public “I have no idea what you’re talking about.” Smile. But the minute you’re in private it’s rip roaring abuse time. Sneering, mocking, psychologically torturing, gaslighting, justifying the abuse, doling it out some more..and DARING you to speak out about it “No one will believe you! They’ll think you’re crazy! You need a psychologist!”
Funny how abusers all say the same things. Any attempt to reason with them gets the same results. They are all the same. Dr. Tara, is it true that most abusers abuse in private and have a stellar public image? Coming across as the stable, sane, happy, well-adjusted ones? Do abusers basically have a well adjusted, successful outward life/public life…while the truly abused appear not to do so well in public?
How common is that? Is it a dynamic that’s always present?
And one more thing for all the fathers out there…These disorder mothers can and do project false facades to YOU about what kind of mother’s they are to your children. Just as they put on the sweetness and light act in public, they may also act sweet and caring towards your children IN FRONT OF YOU. When you are gone, this type of woman will be torturing your child in the same hysterical manner. They are very jealous of their own daughters and often pick one child to abuse and others to spoil. They black/white their own children. And you will never see it. She will never abuse the child in front of you. And act all mystified and fake concerned when one of your children starts withdrawing or showing signs of problems. She will no doubt label your child as “difficult.” This is yet more projection. The witch is secretly abusing your child while trying to pull the wool over your eyes and fool you into thinking it’s the child with the problem–not her. They abuse in secret. Just like they abuse their husbands in secret and act nice in public; they also abuse a child in secret and act like they would never do such a thing to their spouse, the world. Its an act. Even family memebers may never witness the actual abuse. The father is away at work, time for mommy to abuse the child. Of course, she is going to deny it and put on an act for the father. They are never responsable for their acts. It’s always done to maximize the possibility that their will be no consequences for their actions.
Protect you children. These disordered women do NOT make good mothers, no matter how nice they ACT in front of you. It’s an act, just like everything else with them. They will be abusing your child behind closed doors and scapegoating them. Your children have much less of a chance than you as an adult do to come out of this unharmed.
Swan Song says
Damn Ginger, you’ve truly got my ex’s number. Just today I was replaying in my head an incident that fits this formula perfectly.
When my daughter was about twelve, my ex asked me to help her with her algebra, since math was a subject my ex was miserable at.I was flattered and pleased to help my daughter in a subject that I excel at. I slowly worked through the first problem carefully explaining each step in terms she could understand. When I encouraged her to attempt solving the second problem, she started out ok, but then she quickly got bogged down with simple multiplication steps. I then asked her if she knew the time’s tables, which she apparently didn’t, and tears started streaming from her eyes. I was flummoxed, but I told her it was no big deal, but that in order to solve her assigned problems she would first need to be brought up to speed with her time’s tables, and that I would help her right then with that. By this time she was full blown crying, and I was at a loss to know why. At that point, my ex stormed out of her room and demanded to know what I had done to my daughter to make her cry. I told her that I honestly didn’t know, but that she had apparently not learned her time’s tables to the degree needed so that she could solve the problems on her math assignment. My ex screamed that I wasn’t supposed to teach my daughter her time’s tables, I was only supposed to teach her to solve her assigned algebra problems, and then I was told to leave my daughter alone. This was an event that I couldn’t wrap my reason around……….until my oldest son confessed something. My ex insisted on home schooling our kids, and he told me that when his mom was teaching his sister math that she was brutal and cruel. My ex was lousy at math, and so she tortured my daughter whenever they studied math and my daughter didn’t measure up to ridiculous standards. My son told me that both he and his sister dreaded math lessons with their mother because those lessons were infused with physical and emotional abuse. I had no idea this was going on, their mother instilled so much fear in them that it would take years before my son could expose it to me.
The revolting irony of this story is the fact that my ex used my sincere attempt to teach my daughter algebra as an example of my “abusive” nature during the divorce proceedings.
So….a loving attempt to help my daughter with her school work was twisted into an assault by a toxic BPD witch who was blindly jealous of any warm connections I might have with my kids. I don’t think normal and healthy people will ever understand the horrific and chaotic psyche that fuels this cruelty.
There’s another video out there of a husband and wife in a car, where the wife is throwing an abusive tantrum that would put any 3 year old to shame.
While I was in my abusive marriage, i always kicked myself for being too stupid to record any of it. However, after reading the comments on the video I mentioned, and seeing how many people still blamed the husband, even after seeing the cold hard truth, I started being easier on myself about that stuff.
Great post! Thanks for the site.