Kiwihelen shared a video on the forum this week that left me shaking my head. The video calls to mind the wikihow post, How to Isolate your Boyfriend.
I don’t know if this video is a joke or a glimpse into the mind of a woman who believes that lying, game playing, planting seeds of jealousy and insecurity and manipulation are acceptable courtship and relationship behaviors.
This video is actually a pretty good compendium of red flag behaviors to watch for while treading bilge water in the dating pool. VideoJug seems to be offering it as an instructional how-to dating video for women. In reality, what the producers of the video have created is a watch-out-for-women-who-engage-in-these-behaviors cautionary video, so thanks VideoJug!
How to Manipulate Men: Mind Games for Bad Girls (All is fair in love and war, so get out there, get manipulating, and work for what you want.)
Here’s the video script and my counterpoints:
Step 1: Play hard to get
Don’t rush to pick up calls from your guy, what do you think message services were invented for? He’ll leave a message, but don’t reply for a least a couple of days. If you make him think you’ve got more important things to do – he’ll just want you more. This is such a good tactic that we’ve made a whole separate film about it.
Be Genuine. What you want in a date and a potential mate is someone who shows you basic common courtesy and who doesn’t leave you guessing or wondering about her or his interest. A little mystery can be enticing, but returning calls and messages in a reasonably timely manner shows respect and interest.
Game players are best avoided. You don’t want to be with someone who believes messing with your head is sport or gains them some kind of tactical advantage over you. The games rarely stop, in both marriage, divorce and custody issues.
Step 2: Flattery
Now you’ve got his attention, chuck him a bone and stroke that ego – just don’t get the two confused at this stage. Tell him how great he’s looking, or how impressed you are with his knowledge of those tricksy computer games. Flattery works especially well when combined with step 1: playing hard to get. Build him up, knock him back, build him up, knock him back. Look how confused he is – now your winning.
Sincerity Counts. There’s a fine line between flattery and love bombing. “Chuck him a bone.” Do you want to be some woman’s dog who patiently sits, waiting to be thrown a scrap of affection?
Furthermore, “build him up, knock him back, build him up, knock him back,” very neatly describes one of the dynamics of an abusive relationship. If you’re with a woman who builds you up only to tear you down, please stop for a moment and consider what she is doing.
Knocking you back or tearing you down can undermine your confidence and esteem and lead to paralyzing feelings of self-doubt and dependency. A woman who does this is trying to weaken you in order to control you better and make you dependent upon her.
Step 3: Bribery
This is straight forward. You know what he wants, but he won’t be getting it until you get what you want first. This tactic does mean you too could spend some time without getting, err… satisfied. But who care when there’s a Tiffany’s bracelet at stake.
Transactional Tartlets. This “tip” advocates having a transactional relationships. It’s also what prostitutes do: have sex for money and trinkets. If a woman you’re dating has a “no money, no honey” policy, do a quick wallet check and then run in the opposite direction.
Step 4: Jealousy
Repeat after me; Never. Stop. Flirting. If he thinks other men are after you he will just want you more, like a shiny, glamorous trophy he’s trying to win. As soon as he catches a whiff of competition he’ll be bending over backwards to make you happy.
If there’s no one in vicinity to flirt with simply talking about other men will send him into a jealous rage, tell him about; ‘Brad’ who’s a ‘great guy’ that you ‘always hang out with.’ Or go that step further and send yourself some flowers from ‘a secret admirer.’ Forget honesty and self respect – they won’t get you anywhere
If your date or girlfriend openly flirts with other men in front of you, she’s being disrespectful. This is cruel behavior designed to make you feel insecure. What’s more it’s a cheesy, high pressure, old marketing con. Act now while supplies last!
Something else to ponder, how do you think Flirty Felicia would respond if you started chatting up other women while you were out? Many women who think it’s okay to make men jealous in order to snag them are a Double Standard Divas. In other words, it’s okay for them to flirt with other men, but heaven help you if you do the same with other women. Why? Because it’s different when she does it!!!!!
A woman who engages in this kind of behavior is trying to make herself look like a rare and valuable commodity by using other men to play on your insecurities. A loving partner wants you to feel secure in her affection, she doesn’t play on your fears. If a woman you’re dating makes it a point to tell you how many men want her, let ’em have her — unless you want to be a contestant in her version of The Bachelorette.
Step 5: Play Dumb
What would little-ickle you know about changing a tire. Heavy shopping bags? If only you were stronger. And as for balancing your bank account – those number just plain make your head hurt. Yep, it’s setting the woman’s movement back about 100 years, but it gives you a break.
Be Smart. You want a partner who knows how to balance a checkbook and how to look after herself. Period.
It makes no difference if she really is that helpless or is feigning helplessness. She’ll eventually become a dead weight in your relationship, especially if you marry and breed with her.
Poor wittle-little-ickle me get a job? You’re supposed to take care of meee! It’s so hard being a stay-at-home-mom! You need to do all the housework I didn’t do when you get home from work! And, by the way, you never spend anytime with meeeee! All you do is work! You just may be looking at future spousal support and child support succubus. RUN. Run like the wind and let her find another nursemaid/janitor/ATM/babysitter. Trust me, you do not wnat to legally bind yourself to a hostile dependent.
Step 6: Tears
If all else fails, resort to what you learned from an early age; turn on the water works. Not proper ugly bawling, just those pretty little sobs. Men are scared of crying women, they will do anything in their power to make you stop. Just remember not to go too far or he might start to think you’re a bit high maintenance. Oh well, plenty more fish in the sea.
Boo-Freaking-Hoo-Hoo. Fellas, you really need to learn the difference between genuine sadness and pain, crocodile tears and other tears of manipulation. If a woman cries because you tell her no or because you’re holding her accountable for something hurtful she’s done, you’re being played.
You also need to learn the difference between real crying and fake crying for attention. Kids fake cry for attention as do many grown women. I know it’s uncomfortable watching another person cry, but steel yourselves to this. Crying, whether it’s legitimate or a manipulation, is, well, it’s a cry for you to do something.
Make me happy. Comfort me. Buy me the house I want. Don’t leave me. Don’t hold me accountable and make me face the consequences of my behavior.
Figure out what is causing the tears. For example, if your girlfriend’s grandmother just died, she’s probably crying because she’s genuinely sad and it’s okay to comfort her. Although, there are some women (and men) who will use a death in the family or an illness to manipulate others into “not abandoning” them, etc.
If your girlfriend is crying because you can’t afford to take her on your business trip to Brazil or because you found sexts from another man on her iphone, she is manipulating you — consciously or unconsciously. If you want to test the genuineness of her tears, don’t waver in holding her accountable or your no. If you hold firm, you will be surprised how quickly her tears turn to rage, threats and/or other forms of manipulation and intimidation.
Thanks again to VideoJug for the unintentional addition to dating red flags!
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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What a fantastic article doc! The crying always got to me and I was a horrible sucker for it. If I went to have a beer with friend out came the tears, the many times I tried to leave, out came the tears. She was a master at playing with my compassion and sense of guilt. “how can you leave me like this” or I can’t believe you would leave me now when I’m just going back to work (never mind the five weeks she was in outpatient therapy for her issues and took a leave of absents from work and continued to verbally abuse, have rage episodes, and threaten cheating. She cried that time alot but by then, I was numb and detached emotionally enough to not fall for the “I’m a victim” play.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
So, when you were hurting, upset and tearful, did your ex show you the same concern and empathy she demanded of you? If not, my response (at least in my head) would be, “Cry me a river. Wah, wah, wah.”
Actually no, not at all. She had zero empathy for anyone but herself and flew down the double standard highway with reckless abandon.
Once in the middle of another argument about our relationship she yelled out “were talking about me! Me!”. I just walked away. SMH
Boy, that sounds familiar. I once confronted my STBX about a rage episode of hers that was very upsetting to me, and she just started chuckling.
Cousin Dave says
Kind of a side issue, but I’ve always been amazed at how Cluster B’s can turn the waterworks on and off at the drop of a hat. How the heck do they do that?
B Experienced says
It is often times part of their control system over you. They just master it though experience. This is part of the evidence that strongly supports and proves that they have far more control over their emotions when they choose to than not for the most part. Just like their supposed out of control rages which are really choices being made to lose control or stay out of control as well. They even describe the feeling of losing control and then the next irrational choice to continue even after feeling out of control. They have highly irrational reactions, sometimes insane ones at times but they are not psychotic in the clinical and legal sense of the word. Crazy yes, psychotic no.
It is way different than a person who is out of control when fully psychotic and has no control device left to work with in themselves. They describe this as it suddenly being gone without any choice involved and they are right. This is what a person with Schizophrenia or Bipolar I illness experiences in a true psychotic break or episode from their illness. It has to do with levels of awareness and coherency, insight, as well as the ability to integrate, control and choose what is on ones mind and actions when considering if a psychotic break was the cause of an action beyond their control.
Often times when a BPD is crying and it appears to be uncontrollable, it is an attempt to garner love and nurturing, because they automatically stop after they get it. Young children and babies often do this too.
Love this blog, Dr. Tara! I hope you know how sorely needed this blog has been in the lives of so many men out there.
I love my stepkids and I plan to distill this and the prior red flag list you made and write it as a guide to my stepson for when he starts dating. The thing is, I would love to do the same for my stepdaughter (she’s younger and I have more time), but was wondering what resources on the web would you recommend I use to do the same for her? I’m sure that sites that seriously instruct what this video is satirical about are dime-a-dozen, so I’m curious what gender-reversed points you would you make if you wanted to do the same for your own daughter, and what similarly mutual respect and common-sense based web resources would you recommend to that end?
I’m going to save this for my son when he starts dating. This ought to be taught in schools. We hear about “dating violence” but not the equally destructive behaviors of female predators.
B Experienced says
When I was getting my haircut, the stylist said that she told her 9 year old son to not get too big of a chocolate heart for the girl he had a crush on for Valentine’s Day in school. She told him that if you do, some girls just want more and more. I thought that was excellent advice and so very true.
B Experienced says
Anybody who has to work that hard and come up with all those maneuvers to get a relationship has got a lot to cover up and divert in themselves. Head for the hills.
I hate the emotional crying. I’m in the process of GTFO. I have a child who I will stay a good father to. Give me half the money, screw the house and give me my sanity and freedom!
Amen brotha!!! Good for you!!
Thanks brother. This site has really opened my eyes. Wish I would have found it earlier and ending this thing sooner.
Same here man. But I’m sure with any guy who utilizes the material on here, had to find this site for reason, i.e. how to deal with craziness. Between Dr. T and Paul Elam’s website and radio program you can “idiot proof” any new relationships so it doesn’t happen again. You can take my house, take my paychecks, but by God you will not take my sanity.
The sad part is that too many women believe this!!! Let me give you a down-to-earth, decent man’s opinion on these steps:
Step 1 – playing hard to get very quickly becomes hard to want. Of course there’s a trill to the chase, but only if there’s a light at the end of the tunnel, and that the light isn’t an on-coming train. But honestly, if the woman is gonna start off playing games and hard to get, then there is nothing established from the beginning, therefore there really is no big loss. She makes it pretty easy to move on.
Step 2 – “you’re winning”? Eeegads this almost made me sick. Whenever i’ve gotten serious with a girl i sit her down and have a quick chat that goes something like this, “The most important and valuable thing anyone can give to another is themselves. I want to give you my heart. It’s not much, but it is precious to me and the most valuable thing is can give. If you want it, take it, respect it and cherish it. If you don’t want it, then please give it back with respect. I’m not a toy and this is not a game”. Now granted, that’s poetic and dramatic. Some people may not receive the importance of the message. Those are the one’s you gotta walk away from. There is no such thing as “winning” in a healthy relationship. As for the push/pull, see my response to Step 1. People who makes you jump thru hoops and push/pull you never seem to realize that the “prize” (them) needs to be worth the effort.
Step 3 – this goes along the lines of what Dr. T calls The Golden Uterus. Even in this day and age (perhaps especially in this day and age) it’s easy to get laid. If all you want is sex, there’s plenty to be had. It costs you less in money, time and effort to get laid. I don’t understand how people think they have The Golden Sex Organ, like they’re so fantastic in bed that all shall bow before them. I’ve had average looking women that were low maintenance and very good in bed. I’ve had women that were absolute bombshells as far as looks that were terrible in bed. And it doesn’t matter how good the woman is in bed if you can’t stand her long enough to get here there. A good partner is hard to find. But i’m here to tell you that if it costs you an arm, a leg, and your manhood, she’s not worth. Jenna Jameson couldn’t provide sex worth all of that.
Step 4 – any person who believes that they have relatively decent taste in a mate needs to understand that it’s not somewhat likely, but an absolute certainty, that someone else will also find her attractive. That’s where the jealousy against another man should stop, and where the game playing by the woman (in this instance) starts. From this point on, it’s all on the girl unless the man refuses to respect your relationship and doesn’t take no for an answer. If she’s flirting to make you jealous, she’s playing with your head. Any woman that would resort to this will probably stoop to any other level. It’s pure manipulation.
Step 5 – as guys, sure, we like to be helpful. I don’t know of too many men who truly want to date a ditz. To me, a woman who can take care of herself is sexy. I want a partner, not a Barbie Doll with as much space between her ears as a real Barbie Doll. And i can’t stand a girl who acts stupid as a means of manipulation.
Step 6 – I’m a sensitive guy and i can’t stand when i’ve done something to hurt someone i love. However, i’m pretty good at realizing what i real and what is manipulation. I can’t stand a woman who cries at the drop of a hat. It makes me want to say “put on your Big Girl panties, knock off the tears and be an adult”. There’s a time and a place for everything, but turning on the tears just to get out of something or to manipulate your way into something is absurd.
Anyways… that’s just my two cents…
Could not have been said better brother!
I agree……especially step 2. Very well put.
B Experienced says
Very good and refreshing to hear!
Here is a scary deal, and I kid you not. When I was in school many years ago and was studying psych, I came to know of therapists who were licensed NPD’s or BPD’s. A lot of them taught their clients that all of their crying was good because of the release (emotive theory crap for the most part). One time, I heard from someone I knew that one of them had a client who spent the whole weekend in bed crying and a BPD woman therapist put a Gold Star in this client’s file for taking the time to do good therapy on the weekend. I can’t even imagine any Psychiatrist that I knew in the field buying Gold Stars like you would for a child and putting them in their files. Talk about enabling and reinforcement of childish ways and overlooking detrimental signs.
We were being taught a whole different story by Psychiatrists and Psychologists in our field. The above scenario was taught as a major red flag of decompensation. I just called it common sense.
When I was recently looking through the Internet, I came across a new approach to the treatment of BPD childishness. The therapist recommends that they let themselves regress and watch cartoons while talking and laughing like a kid. One does this with their husband! The theory is because it is natural to want to have had a normal childhood. If I did that, my husband would be calling an ambulance to take me to the nearest psyche center. I couldn’t stop laughing when I was telling him that. He couldn’t get past the very fact of this yet alone the expectation that you are in essence supposed to then have sex with a child in a woman’s body and call all of this normal and natural.
things that are sexy to me (inwardly) are also things that make a good partner to me: intelligence, strength, compassion, passion (when it doesn’t involve being a nutcase), etc.
turn offs are manipulation of any kind… especially tears. there is nothing less appealing than a woman who can cry at the drop of a hat over what the average person (male or female) would consider no big deal. all of this is unnecessary drama. if someone goes to pieces over something minimal, how are they going to react when something really big happens? during those times it’s understandable to shed tears, but you also need to be strong for each other. even when it feels like you’re falling apart, you need to be able to lean on each other for strength, and you need to be strong for yourself and the other person. so… if someone is going to fall apart because so-and-so did something, or a friend didn’t call, or there’s just stupid shit that should be dismissed… oh my Lord it is such a turn off. Grow a pair, rent a pair, be a REAL woman, and suck it up Buttercup!! any girl that can cry on demand is a no-go in my book.
So many warning signs here. I was in this situation with my now probably stbxw. The jealousy double standard, bribery and playing dumb are extremely poignant to me. Any guys out there it only gets worse when you are married and kids are involved. Transactional, heck yeah. I had to intuit her needs to get mine filled as well as being subjected to outright extortion at times. I wouldn’t get married period but if you date a girl for a long period of time and she shows one or more of these traits on a pervasive basis then find a new girlfriend or hang out with your buds!
When I look at the video, I can see myself sitting my 11 yr old son down some time and having him watch it. The idea being if he sees any of this behavior in a woman, leave before something bad happens. It may give him an edge in bailing early.
For those of us already here, how much practical value would it have been? Dr. T, Shari Schreiber, et al., mention being a “people pleaser” as a characteristic that may make us vulnerable to a predatory partner. Google “people pleaser abuse” and you get a lot of hits. It implies our situations are less a matter of education than our ability to tolerate crap from someone we care about. Each of the 6 manipulations listed corresponds to a vulnerability in us. We’re more likely to be more susceptible to some more than others. As the video notes, pusing some may get them labeled as “high maintenance.” Of the list above, I was relatively immune to #2 & #6. #1, #4, & #5 were negative triggers. #4 was grounds for immediate dismissal. However, I was very vulnerable to #3. As long as my perceived compensation was equal to or greated than my aggrevation/cost, the situation was acceptable.
I saw red flags at the time but I don’t know if I seen this then if it would have made any difference.
Sad. I’ve always wondered If some of the women I’ve been involved with were cut out of the same mold. This video peeks my curiosity, is there truely women or people out there that teach others to behave this way? How cruel. This is eye opening for me and the “benefit of the dought” personality in me wants to believe this video is sarcasim but now I’m wondering if that train of thought has caused some of the challenges I’ve faced? Thanks.
capo regime says
A good follow up would be an analysis of the defenders of these creatures and borderlines. Incredibly, there are people who defend borderlines. Certainly, some people have compassion for troubled people. However, I think people underestimate the damage that these women (usually) inflict on people. There are people who have compassion and make excuses for murderers and pedophiles and others of similar ilk. But even people who work in mental health avoid and come to loathe borderlines and there are invariable people who call them names and think they should be fired for avoiding borderlines etc……. My cousin and I were both married then divorced borderlines (yes actually diagnoses) and had to endure trying to have relationships with our children it was hell. Anyhoo–heed the advice of the good doctor and avoid these evil creatures–yes they are evil and should be shunned.
B Experienced says
Anybody who defends a BPD for the harm they cause and believes that love heals them should be made to take one home and live with one for 25 years whether they are a shrink or not. I will bet their uppity defense of them will be of a different tune after that stint. Maybe then they will see what it is like.
I can always tell when someone doesn’t know their onions when they make such holier than though statements about how we shouldn’t speak about them in such a horrible way. I find them just them just as abusive as a BPD because they are hurting the ones harmed by them yet again because we are then seen as the faulty one and our pain is diminished, they set up innocent people to get harmed and enable the BPD.
Amen to that. It’s a different story when you see a little misunderstood borderline…once a week…for an hour…in a controlled environment….with complete immunity…..it’s another beast all-together when they are shoving a steak knife in your face threatening to take your kids away and kill you. Most of these head doctors have no life experience…just book learning….or are as bad off as the patients they are treating.
Yes, I was married to a BPD for 25 years, and yes I am horribly bitter and for good reasons. An emotionally well adjusted man can manage to escape them, that is what makes them so incredibly vile, and the reason for the manipulation game, they have to find a man with a weakness to pray upon.
Now to be academic, there is a point to be clinical about this disorder, to merely religate it to something to always loath, means there will be no understanding, awareness and prevention. So, understanding we are sensative to the devestation they cause, we need to be thick skin enough to realize there are folks trying to prevent it and taking a scientific approach. We are too emotionally involved to appreciate that sometimes.
Another point, that is equally frustrating, is the double standards in society. An abusive man, that verbally/emotionally abuses women or batterer, certainly also suffers from disorders and has root emotional causes for their behaviour. But, do we see defenders of male abusers? No, they are religated to the wreches of society as evil people that deserve no mercy. Forums complaining about abusive and manipulative men, there would absolutely no tolerance for their defense on clinical grounds. Yet, women who are the equalivalent, there is always a defense for how they are NOT RESPONSIBLE for their BEHAVIOUR, somehow it is someone elses fault.
I agree, what annoys me most is the “agument”: not all borderlines are the same. When their behavior is so similar that you have an impression they all read from the same script. Like one person abused all of us, or lke Dr T or Randi Kreger put a camera in our homes. But many still shamelessly claim that “bpd manifests differently in every individual” and even accuse you of “generalization” and “stigmatization”. Wtf!?
When I found out the hell I was going through have a name – bpd/npd – I promised to myself that I will talk and write about it and warn people, because I don’t want anyone to become their victim and suffer like I did. And then these “defenders” and disguised borderlines show up and ruin the discussion with their twisted logic and lies. And even some victims of narcissists refuse to accept that bpds are abusers just like npds.
I understand those doctors who avoid bpds, I feel sick even when I see the word borderline.
Dr. F says
“How to Isolate your Boyfriend.” aye ? Where on earth did this product come from, Area 51 ?
If so, then I am tempted to reverse engineer it and come up with a new line of products. First cab off the rank will be an instructional video on the ways of Gaslighting.
“How to Isolate your Girlfriend.” or “The Art of Mucking About.”
Step 1: Muck around with her car.
– Replace the wheel nuts of her car with tiny bagels and stick a sign on the dash saying, “Please r i n g me. I’m n u t s about you.” and sign it in the name of her ex boyfriend.
– Pretend to be her mechanic and call her with regards to some other woman with a flame thrower who keeps turning up at the garage pretending to be her asking for her car.
– Replace the locks and then put unrelated objects in the car like a football, a large egg-timer, a book titled “How to Make your own glow in the dark Coffin.”, a box of Mangoes and a stuffed bat.
Step 2: Muck around with her fridge.
– Swap the milk and cream stuffs with her hand cream and other milky type lotions found in her bathroom.
– Put barcodes on every one of her eggs. Link each one to a picture of violence found on the net. She’ll go nut’s with an iPhone scanning app.
– Replace the fridge light with a very bright strobe light synced to the sound of rats squealing.
Step 3: Muck around with her purse.
– Employ a craftsman to make a slightly smaller version of it and cram her purse contents into it.
– Employ the craftsman to make a slightly larger version of it and cram two of everything from her original purse into it.
– Reproduce every item in it and put it in an identical purse. Place it right next to her original one when she sits down to a posh dinner at a posh restaurant.
– Give it to a local kid with ten bucks and tell him to knock on her door and give it to her saying he found it in his dad’s car.
Step 4: Muck around with her computer.
– Replace the start up sound with an angry voice message left by a jealous girlfriend in her past.
– Put a fish inside the computer case and two weeks later replace it with a car freshener for a week. Rinse and repeat.
Step 5: Muck around with her pets.
– Dog. Replace it’s collar randomly with different colours.
– Cat. Replace the bell it wears with a note that says, “I’m watching you very closely.”
– Fish. Take them all out and replace it with one very large Piranha with a note on the glass saying, “I’m watching you very closely.”
– Turtle. Replace with smaller and smaller ones then larger and larger ones. Cycle up then down repeatedly.
– Bird. Feed it with Marijuana seeds and be ready to soothe her when she rings up at midnight regarding it’s constant chirping.
Step 6: Muck around with her appliances.
– Vacuum cleaner. Fill the bag up with glitter and reverse the airflow.
– Washing machine. Take out the clothes in it mid cycle and replace with women’s clothes from a Salvation Army depot.
– Dish washing machine. Take out the dishes and cups, break them and replace. Place a single large rock on the kitchen floor in a puddle of water for maximum confusion.
– Exhaust fan in the bathroom. Snip and swap the wires. This will reverse the airflow and is best done when she is hosting a dinner party.
So remember chaps, if you want to succeed in the art of mucking about you need remember the golden rule, confuse confuse and confuse.
There is no caveat with this rule, as it’s very application is a ‘no strings attached’ self rewarding machine that will divide her resources and bring her to your door as a pleading gibbering ball of feminine plasticine.
Right, off to the shops to buy me one of those fancy cameras. I’ll be reminding you to check it out once it’s completed and posted on http://www.howtobeaswineforfunandpersonalprofit.com
Dr. F says
You clicked that link didn’t you ? See, I’ve started to confuse already.
B Experienced says
My favorites are the ones with the animals and fish with signs that say I’m watching you and the purse size switches. I know how they can read into things when there is no threat.
I had a neighbor who claimed that a pair of goggles appeared on her computer with a caption reading I am watching you. She thought is was the leader of a democratic country warning her about her political comments. Boy, she is special. Her views travel faster than the speed of light and head straight to him! I guess I am supposed to have believed that the leader picked and took only her remarks as serious as well as the time out of his busy day just to engineer something no one she asked heard of just to control her via computer. I don’t see a whole lot of critical thinking in between her A and Z. I just think she made it up to have something to project her paranoia on. I can see why BPD and NPD can be misdiagnosed as Schizophrenia in a psychotic phase or when they are under stress or worried. Geez.
capo regime says
Thanks for that reality testing and note! Right on target!
B Experienced says
What you want to add to your critical thinking when people make these outrageous comments on how love heals all, therapy always works, and other such nonsense is the element of narcissism.
Therapy has limits and it fails greatly a lot of the time and it isn’t as effective in all ways and levels as it is often times sold to be. Any competent clinician or researcher in the field will see and know that. Dr. Robert Hare has been doing research for about 40 years in Psychopathy and hasn’t found a cure yet. What does that tell you about love and therapy curing it? They, also, realize that they are just a part of your solution and not the whole solution too. In his book, “Without Conscience”, he even points out that mothering and love isn’t the solution either. I have watched my own Mother try and love my BPD Sister and Father for decades. It may stick for a little while or sometimes a great while, but then they let it slide off or remove themselves from it so that they can have their hell bent on destructive ways back. Her love was gentle, steadfast and pure. There was nothing wrong with it. It was them.
Any therapist who would want you to stay with an abusive person is not even following their ethical and legal duties to keep their client (s) safe from harm to begin with. It becomes even more egregious when they want you to have compassion for them because this is the part of the interplay of the Stolckholm Syndrome, and they are not respecting YOUR pain and teaching you what healthy love and self respect is. What they want you to do is not only pay their bills, but make them look good as a therapist to their colleagues and others. This is their narcissism at play and it is dangerous. They can then say to their colleagues that I got a really tough abuser to change with a Cluster B trait or disorder. I got their partner to have compassion for them and my love therapy worked, blah blah. Your a tool being played for a fool. I know this kind of therapist. They are very good when caught at rationalizing, justifying or outright lying and/or blame shifting. (Cluster B defenses) People don’t realize that it is very hard to legally prove harm caused by a therapist and that it very seldom gets prosecuted or even ethically disciplined by their State Board or Professional Organization unless they admit to it which isn’t often because it happens behind closed doors without witnesses. The other reason is that it isn’t governed like traditional Medicine is and the regulations and monitoring of the field are very lax. That is why many narcs are attracted to the field and get away with the harm they cause and say and do what they do.
Another trap are martyred people and therapists who are masochists. These people have very warped morals and poor boundaries. They will invest highly inappropriate and often times diffuse levels off pathological empathy and compassion for the cause, and they may even try to rope you in to their delusion. Their fixation on the person they are trying to help is a big obsession. The underlying problem is that they can’t deal with the reality that love doesn’t cure all, evil people exist who aren’t really good underneath it all and their love isn’t really all that grand and hot. They come to think very highly of themselves and some believe they will be rewarded by God for hanging in there which strengthens their delusion. They have self esteem problems and use this approach as a way to try and overcompensate for their lowly self image which is sometimes disguised as a high one. They are excellent at sending double messages to others and over looking the lack of results or exaggerating the minimal outcome because of their convoluted thinking and false hope. For ex.-Love doesn’t cure them, but if you hang in there and have compassion for them they will change.
“Love doesn’t cure them, but if you hang in their and have compassion for them they will change.”
I appreciate and agree with most of your take on this, however I have trouble wrapping my head around the above statement. Maybe I’m missing the correct context of your statement, but I am personally starting to lean toward the philosophy that love is the new domain of masochists. Hence why we see a deluge of self-help books, philosophies and thoughts regarding the concept of ‘self-love.’ In a nutshell, or the subtext of, what people are saying that write about the topic of ‘self-love’ is at the end of the day, all you really have is YOU. No amount of love from someone else will change you, or someone you are involved with. I think the compassion that needs to be had, is to protect yourself, and go no contact with the emotional abuser. Any ‘compassion,’ a form of love, that is extended to an emotional abuser, will be fruitless and leave a person with brain damage.
B Experienced says
It wasn’t the best choice of statements I could have made, and I wasn’t really clear with what I meant. Sorry about that. What I was trying to point out for example, was that if someone doesn’t really understand the concept of love, they may get roped into staying with an abuser because they aren’t connecting the dots themselves and understanding that such things as compassion are a part and form of love. Some people state components of love as if they didn’t have anything to do with each other and then argue them as those they are valid reasons for helping or staying in an abusive relationship.
I agree that no love is going to help anybody unless the person wants it to. It is up to that person to do so and make the proper changes with it. The problem with a BPD is that they delusionally believe that only someone else’s love will change and cure them. Other people’s love is good and important at times, but they have to learn to meet a lot of their own needs by themselves. Another scenario is that they think others are the problem and should change to accommodate them when others don’t have to or the BPD’s behavior is the problem. They feel entitled to all of this because they were ripped off by someone in their childhood or so they say because not all of them were. Underneath all of it, I just think that their narcissism and psychopathy genes are the real problem and what gets in the way.
No doubt that a lot of damage can happen to the brain, body and personality of a person who has been abused. It is like playing Russian Roulette. Nobody knows until it is over if the physical damage can be undone or fully heal. Those kind of changes in a person’s physiology can wreak havoc on the body and mind and even kill you. Then you have the psychological and emotional damage to heal on top of that. Abuse isn’t good for anybody and real love doesn’t tolerate it or expect people to put up with it. That is my belief.
Ahh, thank you for clarifying B.
Always find your posts insightful. Thank you. I will marinate some more on this latest response. Long day, tired, but wanted to acknowledge your response.
B Experienced says
Your welcome. I am glad that what I have to say helps someone.
that is all some very valuable knowledge….truth all the way. I know of therapists just like you speak of.
I’m surprised nobody has seen the resemblance between these advice tips and “The Rules” for capturing Mr Perfect.
When we were raising my youngest brother, he’d throw crying tantrums like the ones mentioned here. My big brother would just mimic his screaming back in his face. That made him stop, but then he’d flip out and have an even louder anger tantrum… obvious manipulation. It would work with a grown woman the same way.
I watched about 30 seconds of the video and had to shut it off. It literally (and I don’t mean metaphorically-literally, I mean literally-literally) made me a bit sick to my stomach. Doubly sickening is the fact that this sort of crap is so openly and unashamedly put forth.
Joseph Campbell said that “Hypocrisy is vice’s tribute to virtue”. The alarming thing about this video (and the millions of other articles and books offering the same advice to women) is that they don’t even bother to slap a veneer of ethical cover on what is essentially a sociopath’s “How-To”. It’s as if Stalin or Hitler were to write a series of self-help books for the aspiring dictator.
And is it just me, or do any other men here find that actress (and her horrible smirk) to be absolutely repellent? Ugh! She makes me shudder.
Dr. F says
I haven’t seen this video. I won’t.
The transcription gave me all the information needed. Much thanks to Dr. T for that, because when I read the opening words for this article and the video link supplied my heart tugged downwards a wee bit I confess.
Reading the transcript mitigated against unpleasant bodily reactions, as I knew that watching those very same words synced to a nasty mouth attached to a repugnant person would do me well as a ceramic parachute.
I agree that this video might serve as a “How To” for sociopaths. If this turns out to be the case then the more people who see it the better.
The chaff goes one way, the wheat goes the other and the “How To” becomes a “Watch out For”.
Once the cloak is off this weapon it diminished to a clown with a cap-gun wobbling about on a three spoke unicycle.
This is an outstanding piece. Wish I had known about this 20 years ago. Also sounds like a doctor (neuropsychiatrist to boot!) I was dating. She did ALL of these things and more, and was quiet adept & subtle about it all. Quite manipulative. Unfortunately, contemporary/modern mental health ‘experts’ are clueless to these types of things that occur in many relationships today. What an emotional wasteland we live in ugh.
Reading this stuff makes me feel like I dodged a bullet. Was seeing a chick for a while who seemed to be reading from this same playbook. I remember once I took her to a park for a picnic in and she decided after a while that she needed to slam my car door multiple times and leave in a huff of tears because she felt, and I quote, I “wasn’t falling for her fast enough.” I guess the Love Bomb (the description of which I found frighteningly accurate) wasn’t working as well as she had hoped, lol.
To those guys who are going through ACTUAL stuff and not just weird dating encounters though, I hope you all pull through, man.
B Experienced says
Boy, what a fun date. You mustttt love me because I demand it. WAAA. I chose YOU to be my new object. Then she had the nerve to disrespect your property after she disrespected you. Scary. Your picnic turned out like Michael Douglas’ and Glenn Close in Fatal Attraction.
It sounds like she lost out of something good with you. You stated that you took her on a picnic. Now that is rare and quite attractive.
It was really strange, man. I wish it was just ‘WAAA, you must love me!’, but it was something more feral than that, and it was like my mind could not come up with the appropriate reaction to the way she was behaving. She did something similar when we were on the way to a christmas party at my parents place, but after that I was finished with her. I could only have taken so much.
I’ve been lurking this site for a bit and the descriptions that a lot of people here put forward about their wives and girlfriends in the articles and comments were uncanny in how similar they were to this girl. It never occurred to me that she could be disordered somehow.
And I KNOW she thinks she lost out on me, lol. But that can only mean that I won somehow 😉
manicbranic and B Experienced,
Yup. I saw the disrespect for my stuff even before we married and decided she need some love. I adopted a project. After we married there were tantrums on the way to ANYTHING with my family. I even let her set the rules for when we were ready to get married.. 25 years later, I quote MLK, Jr, “Free at last. Free at last, Thank God almighty, I am free at last.”
Reading a much earlier comment about BPDs watching children’s television and laughing like children as therapy, I know a married woman who watches the TVLAND channel (old shows from her childhood). Her poor husband, like me has to put up with a woman trying to create a happy childhood that never was and cannot be.
BTW, for another demonstration of psycho; look at the latest McDonald’s Shamrock ad. Maybe McDonald’s didn’t know what they were making, but it seems the director and the actors pretty much had it figured out. The guys expression and eyes toward the end are deja vu.
LT Greenwald says
Here’s the ad:
I love when she says “I hate you” and “I love you” in quick succession. Classic Cluster B. Could you imagine if the sex roles were reversed? Every feminist group in the world would be boycotting McDonalds. I still don’t understand how this sort of thing is acceptable in 2012. The message must resonate with a significant portion of the population if McDonalds is using it in a national ad.
B Experienced says
I wonder who wrote the ad and why everybody involved agreed to it? My guess is that one or more of the Pod People (Cluster B’s) is in involved and the others are currently under her or their spell and power. This would be worth boycotting in the media because a large part of their clientele is minors and men. It would bring public attention to a very serious pathological splitting defense. Given that it is McDonald’s and if it was argued correctly, it could be used to protect people from the Cluster B’s.
I can’t stand this add. Makes me cringe. Glad most of the youtube comments about it are negative though.
It really doesn’t matter who wrote the ad, like LT Greenwald said, as long as there is no uproar and no one is boycotting McDonald’s we can see clearly what society’s attitude is on this one. They are saying that this is acceptable as commercial humor, even if some men would still call her a “b—-“. Like the Lt. said, all you have to do is imagine it with the roles reversed to see how toxic and unacceptable her behavior is.
This whole article makes me want to punch that chick in the video right in her smug, false-eyelashed face.
Men are not beasts of burden put on this earth to satisfy every selfish demand of a manipulative woman, I don’t care WHAT she’s “been through”. There are a lot of men who have had terribly abusive childhoods and awful luck who don’t use that as an excuse to spew their B.S. all over the people in their lives.
Re-read this piece tonight and interesting, just like movies, I pick up things I missed the first time around.
I recently started dating a woman, and after about 5 dates I have a so-so feeling in my gut that something’s not right, but as usual with these Cluster Biatches, its difficult to quantify/verbalize what it is. I don’t look for validation in a relationship, but, I do expect some kind of basic affirmation as a human being.
I believe thats partly what relationships are about – support, affirmation, something like that. And I’m not feeling it after 5 or 6 dates, I have this doubt in my gut, either she’s playing some kind of game, or, not that interested in me…yet she still reaches out to me and communicates, albeit on a more and more irregular basis. Says she wants to get together again, but just feels like some kind of game here…yet I don’t want to believe it b/c she’s a self-described ‘Christian’ who goes to Church every week, travels to help orphans in Mexico every few months, and other do-gooder stuff that I suppose is good…but again something not right. Can’t put my finger on it.
I don’t consider myself needy or clingy, but again do want to feel some kind of respect or mutual feelings here and I’m not feeling it. Instincts tell me she plays subtle mind games. Southern California, land of the female sociopath.
Excellent article. This is my soon to be ex CB/wife down to the “t”. Five weeks of gold digging hell. I found out she’s now targeting West Palm Beach plastic surgeons. What a surprise. Poor barsteward. I wonder if he knows she’s still married?
wow great article , i can say i was with someone who did everything you pointed doctor :
1 – playing hard to get was done in two phases and forms i think :
– phase 1 : when i asked her out she made subtle excuses as to why she can’t while leaving some hope for me that i might date her , but then after i respect her choice and tried to go date someone else but then she gets all paranoid and turns on the water works so i don’t date someone else and wait for her ( there was no valid reason for her to make me wait )
– phase 2 : after we started dating for a couple of weeks we were getting close and getting along very well but she showed signs of controlling behaviour like asking me where i was and what i was doing and getting jaelous of a female friend i knew for years , then when she was sure she had all of my affection she flipped the table and started withdrowing emotionally i was trreated to both 2 words replies and best and cold behaviour toward me like if i was a starnger .
2 – jaelousy : i did see it at first but dismissed it but it escalated over time to her flirting openly with men in front of me , then fake sending me the wrong text that was meant for another guy where oh wow she typed more than two words, then she started using words like my guys and / or these guys follow me , and that guy friend is so nice he did this and that then calling me names when i communicate in a platonic way with a female friend
3 – play dumb: i heard all kind of excuse and playing dumb on the span of two months i can write a book , when i called her out as to why i always get two words replies at best even thought what i was trying to discuss was about the future of our relationship and the issue at hand , she would say ( i can’t think right now , the weather is cold i am like that when it’s cold , i have to go aren’t you going to sleep or do this or that ? , guests are coming i can’t talk , i can’t focus right now , i am busy , my weekly drama , why does it matter …)
all of those excuses repeated everytime i try to call her out on her obvious withholding of communication and affection , and i ended up apologising everytime after i was wronged and she just stonewalled or just plainly ignored me
4 – gaslighting : at some point i’ve had enough and kept playing the broken record to try to bring up problems that were just killing the relationship , first she said it was something i did that made her behave that way and withhold i asked her what did i do she said : ‘whatever’ , i then asked her abt something she said a while ago and pictures of her ex she sent me , she completely denied then when i showed her proff she got angry and said she forgot then ignored me . 5 mn later she tried to rewrite the reality as to how we met …..
…… the list can go on and on but at one point i had enough told her it is the end of the road for me and what happens three days later she plays sick and tried to convince me she had a fatal sickness which was a lie confirmed by a mutual friend ….