Getting married is a big gamble if you’re a man. Even a woman you think you know very well can morph into another person as soon as you say, “I do.”
While some predators and sociopaths are able to keep the mask on until after the wedding ceremony, there are still some warning signs and red flags you should look out for when choosing a prospective mate.
The following red flags are compiled from previous Shrink4Men articles and discussed on the September 26, 2011 Shrink4Men Radio program.
For those of you who listened to that program, I also threw in a few new red flags.
1. You have incompatible sex drives. SEX IS IMPORTANT. Too many people minimize the importance of having compatible sexual attitudes and sex drives. Be very clear about your expectations for your married sex life.
If your girlfriend is already withholding sex and you haven’t even proposed yet, be alarmed. If you’ve proposed and she begins to withhold sex and chalks it up to stress from planning the wedding; be alarmed. If you have sex on demand, be aware that this may come to an end after you propose or, even worse, after you say, “I do.”
2. Opposites do not attract. Opposites may initially attract, but once the novelty wears off, research (Buston and Emlen, 2003) indicates they don’t stand the test of time. Familiarity in the way we communicate and express love and affection is comforting and a strong foundation for a lasting and loving relationship.
For example, if she’s non-stop, fluctuating emotions and you have a more stable emotional landscape, this very well could become a problem in the future.
3. You have to constantly work at the relationship. Yes, you need to put some effort into relationship maintenance, but it shouldn’t be a constant, uphill struggle. If you’re stressed out and exhausted from the daily grind of your relationship, you’re probably not in the right relationship for you. You just can’t fix some problems.
It’s okay to admit this and end it.
4. You just don’t have anything in common — including values. You don’t have to like all the same things, but you should have some shared interests and, more importantly, values.
5. You’re in a state of constant conflict. Conflict is a natural part of relationships. However, there’s healthy conflict that results from disagreements and misunderstandings and then there’s high-conflict people. High-conflict partners generate toxic, never ending, irresolvable arguments, blame, and shame. Specifically, you should watch out for:
- Having the same argument over and over again.
- Getting stuck in a cycle of mutual blame and resentment.
- Bringing up hurts or arguments from the past in the present.
- Name calling.
- Not being able to move past the conflict once the fighting subsides.
6. She makes you responsible for her happiness. If you’re responsible for making her happy, you’ll also be the person that gets blamed for her unhappiness, frustration, and the rest of life’s petite traumata, which brings us to the next red flag.
7. Her happiness shouldn’t come at the expense of your happiness. Even more important, her happiness shouldn’t be contingent upon your misery. Some women only seem to be happy when they can inflict pain or some kind of suffering on their partners. These women expect their needs and feeling to come first and at the expense of your needs and feelings and this is unlikely to ever change.
8. She tries to get too close, too fast. If she tries to insinuate herself into your other relationships and personal space too quickly, be on high alert. It may be evidence that she has poor or zero boundaries and/or is trying to close the deal before her game face mask slips off.
9. Beware of extremely possessive women. This applies to more than jealousy about your ex-girlfriends, classmates, clients or colleagues. Insecure and controlling abusers often feel jealous and threatened when you spend time with your family and friends.
If she becomes nasty and berates you about having outside interests and hobbies, it may be a warning sign that this woman will use any means necessary to isolate you from your friends and family— you know, the people who love you and will tell you that she’s nuts and you deserve to be treated better.
10. Beware of women who don’t take responsibility for their bad behavior or who blame the demise of their previous relationships entirely on their exes. Lots of men fall for this trap. They believe a woman’s tales of mistreatment or abuse by former partners and tell themselves, “I’ll show her I’m a good man. I’ll show her she can trust and love me.”
More often than not, you’ll just end up being her next jerk. Taking responsibility for her choices and holding herself accountable is a good indication that you’re probably dealing with a grown-up.
11. If a woman tells you she’s crazy, BELIEVE HER. You don’t mind a little crazy? You’d better ask for an operational definition of crazy then. People will give you warning signs about their true natures very early on — all you need do is heed their warnings.
12. Beware of princess and other royal pains in the ass like drama queens. When a woman fancies herself royalty, it denotes a level of entitlement, one-sided-ness and probably an incredible lack of empathy. She’s basically stating, “I expect you to be subservient to me. My needs and wishes trump all others.” Do you want to be a lover and equal partner or a manservant?
Self-proclaimed drama queens are draining, toxic and probably have a touch of Histrionic Personality Disorder. If you want to spend your life wading through disproportionate reactions to minor events, that’s you’re prerogative. However, pushing the broom behind the bejeweled elephant in the room eventually becomes tiresome.
13. Beware of women who view you as their own personal bank. If she likes the finer things in life, but doesn’t have the financial means to pay for them, guess who’s on the hook to pay her way through life? That’s right. You.
14. Give that family tree a good shake. As Bill Maher once said, “the shit doesn’t fall very far from the bat.”
How do her parents treat one another? How does she treat her parents? Is she on speaking terms with her family? Her father? Of course, this warning sign isn’t foolproof. Sometimes cutting abusive family members out of your life is actually a sign of good mental health.
15. Beware of the Love Bomb. Many predators drug you with praise and flattery—at first. Beware of statements like “No one’s ever made me feel this way before. I’ve never met anyone like you. I could really fall in love with you. No one has ever understood me like you. I’ve never felt this strong of a connection before.”
Be especially skeptical of these statements if they’re made in the first few weeks or hours of dating. This is a con artist’s technique called, mirroring—”using flattering statements to lift a listener’s confidence in himself.” It takes time to really get to know someone and build trust.
“Instant intimacy” is typically a sign that someone’s stroking your ego into submission and/or that they neither possess nor respect personal boundaries. It’s natural to want a love interest to notice how special and unique you are, however, this doesn’t happen overnight.
Pace your new relationships and remember, the higher the pedestal she places you upon early in the relationship, the further you’ll crash down when she kicks it out from underneath you later. Once these women “catch you,” they almost immediately begin to devalue you.
16. Beware of women who use terms like “starter husband.” Using terms like starter husband or starter marriage means she may see you and your relationship as disposable. You do not want to be a starter husband or be with a woman who would use this appalling phrase.
17. The odds are stacked against you. Familiarize yourself with marriage, divorce and custody statistics. Study the divorce and custody laws and statistics in your state before you even consider getting married. For instance, did you know that over 50% of U.S. marriages end in divorce and that approximately 70% of those divorces are filed by women? Did you know that women comprise 82.6% of primary custodial parents?
Did you know that the average marriage lasts 8 years?
Let’s say you get married in your mid- to late-twenties. 8 years in pretty much puts you at your peak earning capacity. Meanwhile, the wife has kids and becomes a stay at home mom and refuses to work. At the 8 year mark, you’re earning a good level of income, the kids are in school and she’s willingly let her job skills and resume molder.
She decides she’s bored and that you don’t pay her enough attention and files for divorce. Guess who can claim she “sacrificed her career,” that she’s the kids’ primary caregiver (at least superficially) and who will make out like a bandit during the divorce? Probably not you.
18. Physical violence of any kind is a deal-breaker. Period. Emotional violence should also be a deal-breaker.
In a few days, I’ll publish the second half of this series. Meanwhile, if you’d like to listen to the embed of the Shrink4Men Radio episode that discusses this topic, you can do so here.
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
Want to Say Goodbye to Crazy? Buy it HERE.
I can’t believe how many men continue to get married. Don’t these men see all the carnage surrounding the vast majority of married couples? I would rather play Russian Roulette than get married in our present world.
I understand that stance, Stan. However, I think it’s a very natural desire to want to have love, companionship and family.
Unfortunately, the very human desire for these things lays the foundation for self-destruction if you’re a) male, b) marry a high-conflict type and c) end up getting divorced.
To me marriage itself isn’t necessarily the problem. It’s the seriously adversarial, biased and corrupt family court system and divorce laws.
I scored 13 out of 18, and I am already married. Have been with her for nearly 10 years, and I reckon if I knew then what I know now, I probably would not have married. The only positive I can take from it all is that I have 3 great young boys, but they are the very thing that keeps me from making the break. I know that they will be ok as the time they spend with me will be quality and nurturing, but I still cant quite get to the point of leaving.
Staying in an abusive relationship for the kids’ sake is much more harmful than leaving: by doing so you are an unwitting perpetrator in continuing the cycle of abuse, because your kids will model their future relationships on the one they see with their parents. At least if you leave, your kids will have a safe haven from the insanity; and your time with them will be much more enjoyable, however brief.
I know this. I already notice my 6 y/old watching when his mother tears strips off me (complete with profanity), and it makes me feel pretty ordinary. I dont want him to think that this is a normal way for a wife to treat her husband. It is only fear that is holding me back from leaving. I fear what she is going to tell the kids, I fear how difficult she is going to make everything, I fear having to still deal with her for the foreseeable future. After each “dressing down” I get, I tell myself that I will leave the next time she does it, but I am still here. I know I have to leave but I am heartbroken at the thought of not being the first and last thing my boys see everyday.
Roger, hope this isn’t your full name.
If state/local law permits it, start recording her tirades NOW. As many as you can. Don’t quit recording them. Get a system too for getting the recordings on a safe hard drive away from your home so that you remember what is on each recording and where to find it. Don’t delay. Don’t put it off. Don’t wait to decide you are going to divorce. Just do it.
Dr. T: these kind of articles are your best. I think you should periodically bring them to the top of the stack and re-publish.
Roger, if thats your name. I think you don’t have self respect for yourself, and even for your boys. With you being there and coping the abuse from your wife is doing way more harm to you and your boys than you think. They are not benifiting from seeing you being treated like trash by your wife. Your boys will grow up to be slaves and non self respecting men in their future – is that what you want for your boys? Because you allowed them to see their mother just abuse and dominate you. That will pschologically harm your boys in the future. I really think you need to get you and your boys out of there and seek an organisation that can help you, such organisations are out there. Do it now! and if you have to report the matter to the police, then do so. But I think also you should record the abuse she is giving you so if you are to go to court and divorse her (which is what you should have done for your sake and for your boys) then at least the judge will be able to determine who the better parent is. He or she is more likley to favour you to take full custody. But you need to take the first step to end it.
What’s scarier, the thought of leaving or the thought of spending the rest of your life under these conditions?
Excellent points. I think it is important to either write a mental or physical list of what you want in a wife or husband and stick to it. I think that it is equally important that your mates strengths and weaknesses offset each other. What I mean by that is if you have a few weak spots it is better if your mate has those strengths and vice versa. Hopefully, both partners will become strong in those areas.
Realistically, if both of you are weak in the same area, who will solve the problem or deal well with those situations? You need to be a good team. Choose a mate who will self elect to meet the marriage demands of life and figure out who can help them if need be when the other partner is sick, stressed and needs a break, etc.and isn’t keeping a tally of it on the kitchen blackboard. Marriage isn’t always 50/50. It can be 60/40, 30/70 depending on the situations and demands. If someone doesn’t have this kind of flexibility then run.
It is very important to have different interests so that you don’t put all your eggs in one basket. If you do everything together and something happens to your mate,it usually adds to the pain of the loss because you won’t have an activity that you aren’t used to doing without your mate. If that isn’t bad enough, you usually end up with no friends to support you during that painful time.
If your partner is refusing or really not trying to change a behaviour before marriage, it most likely won’t change after you are married either or it may get worse.
Normal long term relationships all have natural ebbs and flows. Throughout the years of marriage most people have times when they are close and times when they aren’t as close to a certain degree. I myself think this is a huge reason for divorces because people think that marriage is some type of never ending Nirvana.
If you start off as friends, your marriage will probably still stay in tact. If it starts off as a sexual relationship or a financial one, then this usually defines your marriage and it is very hard to try and get it off that track.
How is the person under stress? Do they cope in an age appropriate way? Do they try and reduce or eliminate the stressor productively and in a healthy way? These are signs of a normal healthy person.
People with Cluster B Disorders usually make the matter worse and do not deal well with stress. They rant and rave a lot, self harm or try and harm you. A sign of a personality disorder is constant negativity and/or anger. Cluster B’s stretch problems like pulling taffy. Then there is a new problem which they usually create. Look for a pattern of them disrupting peaceful times and if they are the ones who start the problem.
Remember that marriage is hard enough when two people are running towards each other and doesn’t work well or at all when someone has traits or personality disorders.
These are very good points:
Normal long term relationships all have natural ebbs and flows. Throughout the years of marriage most people have times when they are close and times when they aren’t as close to a certain degree. I myself think this is a huge reason for divorces because people think that marriage is some type of never ending Nirvana. If you start off as friends, your marriage will probably still stay in tact. If it starts off as a sexual relationship or a financial one, then this usually defines your marriage and it is very hard to try and get it off that track. How is the person under stress? Do they cope in an age appropriate way? Do they try and reduce or eliminate the stressor productively and in a healthy way? These are signs of a normal healthy person.
I was looking at your categories. With the exception of “dating,” few of them would likely trip to someone experiencing doubts before they got married. If there were more categories like “engagements” or “pre-marriage counselling,” maybe you could reach someone in time. Could you get away with adding “Bridezillas.” Those guys could really use your help.
How did Peter in “Urgent Group Intervention Needed: Should this Man Marry His Abusive and Controlling Fiancée Next Week?” find you? Maybe that could provide insight into better marketing the information proactively.
I’ll be mentioning Bridezillas in Part 2, Mellaril. 🙂
Hindsight being 20/20, I don’t know if one can ever be 100% safe from these types. If a man does get fooled, my best advice to him is to get out as soon as he realizes he’s made a mistake. The longer a man stays, the more he pays — emotionally, physically, spiritually and financially. There’s no shame in admitting that you made a mistake. None. And the people who would try to shame you for trying to leave a bad situation do NOT have your best interests at heart (using a general “you,” not you, Mellaril).
No idea how the man you cite in your comment found my site. He may have been Googling abusive women. Right now, my marketing plan is I have no marketing plan. Never really thought that would be necessary. I typically write about what I think is important based on emails I receive and comments folks leave.
I scored high on this list as well. The thing that fooled me the most about my Ex was the fact that most of these items did not start to manifest until a few months after I said “I do”. From the sex drive to the family tree, a very elaborate job of hiding these items and others was done.
What I did miss was that some of these did appear before the wedding, but in very minor ways. What I found was that when they did occur she would use some form of cultural stereotype or societal expectation. When it came to being physically affectionate, even without sex per say, she would use the idea that we needed to wait until we were married. When she became a little demanding or a little controlling it would be something along the lines of “that is just how it is when you are a husband why else would peope joke about the old ball and chain”.
And when she did something in front of her relatives she would enlist their help by telling them I wanted her to be like this and that she had to be this way because I needed it. So they wouldn’t ask me about it and would simply make excuses for her.
After we were married this method became very nasty because then every single mistake I had ever made in my life prior to meeting her became fodder for her to fire at me in front of her relatives or even our neighbors as a means to diminsh me and impugn my standing with them so they would only deal with her since she must be the person who is in control and will make any decisions.
The point is that anything minor before marriage can definitely become far, far, far worse once you are married, so do NOT shrug it off as minor and not a big deal simply because it isn’t quite as bad as the example given in the list. It shows a habit and what you see before marriage could be minor simply because she knows if it was not kept in check you might run. Especially when there are resources like Shrink4Men where you can get a reality check.
Well as always, it’s just my 2 cents so I can be wrong, but I doubt it.
I would also like to add another point to the list: watch how your girlfriend / fiancee treats other people, especially those close to her, for that is a sure indication of how she will treat you once you are married. She may treat you like the best thing since sliced bread before marriage but, if she is in constant conflict with her own friends & family members, watch out because you will be next on the list once the ring is on her finger. Do not dismiss the abuse she inflicts on external parties, and do not think that she would never do that to her own husband & kids because the wedding ring acts like a free pass that any behaviour is now suitable and will be administered with “great vengeance and furious anger”.
In short: once the ring goes on, the gloves come off.
“In short: once the ring goes on, the gloves come off.” This is too funny and sadly true about my STBX.
My situation fits in all but two of these categories. It has been tough but I am almost free. Has taken a long time. I owe it to Dr. Tara (and a network of good friends after I finally opened up and talked) for helping me realize that all these things that were done to me were not part of a healthy relationship. Family therapy was not only useless, but complicit in keeping me trapped. I am sad for another friend of mine who through religious counseling is trying to stay together until his kids are out of the house.
One other thing I would like to say is EVERYTHING Dr. Tara said would happen once I pulled the pin did in-fact happen. Which kind of proved to me that getting out was the right thing to do.
Another possible flag: What’s popular cultural telling you about the relationship? What songs, TV shows, or movies get you thinking about the relationship? How does it make you feel?
Here’s what songs were resonating with me when I was WITH my exgf:
“A Matter of Trust” – Billy Joel
“An Innocent Man” – Billy Joel
“So Far Away From Me” – Dire Straits
“Time for Me to Fly” – REO Speedwagon
“Lonely in Love” – Dan Fogelberg (From the liner notes to “Portraits,” “I wrote this song after…getting married. Somehow, it didn’t occur to me that this was strange stuff for a newlywed to be writing.”)
Something inside of me was trying to warn me and I overrode or ignored it.
http://blog.joerogan.net/archives/2826
Listening to the remaining cast of NewsRadio is enlightening…y’know, Phil Hartman was shot to death by his wife, Dave Foley is being financially fleeced and married a Boderline wife….
I posted this video on another Dr. T thread, but it seems relevant here too.
I used to always watch that show, and have the SNL DVD of Phil Hartman (long before I discovered this website).
Do you recall one of the last episodes, was one where “Bill” (Hartman) was scared that a stalking woman was trying to kill him? Chilling.
Sad.
I only wish I’d seen this two years ago…
As the fine Dr. mentioned earlier, hindsight is 20/20. It is really challenging, because those rose coloured glasses.. don’t come off very easily. I’m sure the Dr. is familiar with the Myers-Briggs test, and I’m an ESTJ (The Guardian). I don’t give up easily, I have values that are really important to me.
Suffice to say, the girl I dated for a very long time before finally conclusion that she just either wasn’t mature enough, or observant enough to decide on her own that she was straight up manipulative. The problem for me, is not what to do, but rather how to deal with the fall out. I tend to look for the best in everyone, I always hope for something better.
Without going into details, it’s really degrading to be commodified, knowing that if another guy will do what she wants, she’ll just go with him, yet at the same time she’s still calling me telling me she wants to be in my life. Yet somehow I’m the weirdo in all of this, it’s a complete mind screw. To quote bro tips “If she keeps calling you asking for a ride, chances are, she’s into your car, not you.”
I wish there was something that you could say to these people, but it seems they’re all delusional.
You just keep hoping that one day, after their world comes crashing in, they will finally have their “A-ha!” moment and realize how hurtful and cruel they were…not just to you, but to everyone in their life who actually sincerely cared for them (punish the innocent, protect the guilty).
***
But that day will never come. I think it was “The Green Mile” where Tom Hank’s character says, “Waiting for answers…answers that never come.”
***
The best you or I can do is pick up our life, one piece at a time, and get healthy again…and learn from it. “Don’t let some hell-bent heart leave you bitter; when you come close to selling out, reconsider…and when you get the choice to sit it out or dance…”*
Come out stronger on the other side.
One day, the clouds will break. You’ll realize you’ve gone a whole 24 hours without crying/ raging / feeling bad / ruminating over it.
You might call that your Freedom Date.
“I Hope You Dance” ~Lee Ann Womack
Here is a red flag that follows along the lines of the jealousy issue.
If suddenly every woman you have ever dated, been married to or even said hello to starts being refered to as that WHORE, SLUT, SKANK, FAT, UGLY BITCH you were with before or opened a door for. RUN LIKE HELL!!
The psycho ex girlfriend I dated for a while started on that. Once when I told her my first wife was none of those she went ballsitic. She had called her a whore which she was far from. When I dared to defend her honor she didn’t take that well. I did come up with a good come back though as I was walking out the door…lol
It went something like. “Sorry but until I met you I never lowered my standards & always dated women of substance & class”. Well just before I shut the door on my way out a flying ashtray hit the wall next to me. I never knew those things could fly 🙂
From today’s Huffington Post:
“Why Women In Their 20s Get Hitched When They Should’ve Ditched ”
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joelle-caputa/women-married-and-divorce_b_1077195.html?icid=maing-grid7%7Cmain5%7Cdl2%7Csec1_lnk3%7C110647
I think Dr. T has a blog that covers many, if not all the motivations. Check out Caputa’s “A previous relationship left them heartbroken.” and Dr. T’s “The first cut is the deepest.” in “Why Men Are Attracted to Crazy, Emotionally Abusive Women.”
Compare Caputa’s “They hoped marriage would change things.” with Dr. Marion Solomon’s “Marriage is often the vehicle of choice to avoid changing.” (“Breaking the Deadlock of Marital Collusion, pg 135).
I couldn’t find a good counterpoint to “Low self-esteem,” there were too many that fit.
Caputa’s really doing men a favor by telling women not to get married for the wrong reasons. The bad news is the women that really could use the advice will never listen to it.
I have done significant dating and been married and divorced once. This is a great list that I wished I had many years ago.
My advice
Nobody is perfect but you can learn a great deal about a woman by her mother, her friends and how she handles herself in your arguments. If there is any resorting to physical abuse, move on quickly as it isn’t likely to get better, only worse. And if you ever retaliate in self-defense, you will be viewed as the bad guy. There should be no double standard here amongst the sexes, there is no excuse for hitting, kicking, etc EVER. So if you are with a women who hits, kicks, throws things, you need to move on and make her grow up or get necessary counseling on self control. Blaming someone else for why they do something or act a certain way is immaturity.
If she tells all of her friends about your fights and arguments and then uses what her friends say about your disagreements and fights, move on as she is not mature enough to be in a relationship. Remember you are not in a relationship with any of her friends, nor is she with them, none of them are perfect either so their opinion does not matter.
And if a woman has been married and divorced multiple times and says that all of them were bad men–there is a reason for it. She wasn’t a good enough woman to attract and keep a good man.
A person’s heart is where their treasure is. If you feel that they value their friends, careers, children from previous relationships/marriages, material goods, etc over you, they probably do. Nobody should ever marry someone who makes them feel less important than anything else. You make a lifetime covenant with your spouse, not anyone or anything else. Your marriage should outlast careers, children living in the home, etc.
14. Give that family tree a good shake. As Bill Maher once said, “the shit doesn’t fall very far from the bat.”
How do her parents treat one another? How does she treat her parents? Is she on speaking terms with her family? Her father? Of course, this warning sign isn’t foolproof. Sometimes cutting abusive family members out of your life is actually a sign of good mental health.
This makes me feel insecure. My family history is pretty bad and my relationship with my mother is now ‘low contact’. My mother was the abusive party, but now I choose to have her at arms length in my life. I have gone through periods of time where Ive had no contact. Ive been in therapy for years and will continue it. I have struggled with the thought that I am like my mother. My ex friend once said I was ‘crazy like my mother’. that hurt, because I went through a period of severe depression and that was on my mind. I know I am no where near that level crazy and my therapist has said to me often that from what Ive been through how I came out is surprising to him. Ive told my BF everything