A Shrink4Men community member recently posted a link on the S4M Facebook page to a blog entry written by a woman who identifies herself as a mother with Bipolar Disorder.
Disclaimer: Not all individuals with Bipolar Disorder abuse others. Bipolar disorder can often be effectively managed with medication. Bipolar disorder is a mood disorder; not a personality disorder. Although, there’s often co-morbidity (i.e., a person with multiple diagnoses) between Bipolar Disorder and personality disorders.
Update 08/26.2011: Apparently, Bipolar Mom isn’t only bipolar. According to her bio on PsychCentral.com, she has a number of diagnoses, including Borderline Personality Disorder, which is an equally serious disorder that may impair the individual’s ability to have healthy relationships [end of update].
In the article, Don’t Test a Bipolar Mom!, the woman brags about getting into her adolescent son’s face and threatening him with physical violence. Apparently, her son mouthed off — nothing unusual, typical adolescent fresh mouth — and bipolar mom lost it.
In her post, she blames her son for her loss of control and abusive behavior. She even goes so far as to call him stupid for provoking her.
The woman boasts:
I wonder where the boy’s father is?
I wonder how it is this woman has custody?
I wonder, if this woman is involved in an ongoing custody dispute, if the judge has seen her post?
I wonder why PsychCentral.com left this post up as if the woman’s behavior is acceptable or an example of good parenting?
The most horrific passage in the blog is when bipolar mom states that the only reason she didn’t give her son a bloody lip is because she didn’t want to incur emergency room costs and is afraid of a CPS investigation.
Just wow.
In the comments section, bipolar mom defends her actions to people who posted comments telling her that her behavior toward her son is abusive:
If her son really did say this, it seems like a case of Stockholm Syndrome. It also seems like an example of the mother using her mental health diagnosis to justify her bad behavior. Parents lose their cool with their kids every now and again — especially mouthy teenagers. However, these same parents typically feel bad about it later and certainly don’t brag about it as if it’s an LOL moment. Not once, in any of the comments I read does bipolar mom express remorse for her behavior. Justify and blame, justify and blame.
Update 08/26/2011: Since posting this article, Bipolar Mom sent the following email:
I removed the material quoted directly from the original post and inserted screenshots of it, so there’s no question about being misquoted. The original post was properly sourced and credited. Should PsychCentral.com request removal of the screenshots, I will comply.
I formed an opinion based on Bipolar Mom’s own words. And I’m not the only person of the opinion that the episode and behavior she describes is abusive.
As a mental health professional, I would have told Bipolar Mom, if she were my patient, that the episode she describes appears very much to be verbal abuse — no matter what her diagnoses are. As many of you have stated in the comments below, it is the adult’s responsibility to manage her diagnoses; not her 14-year-old son’s responsibility.
What I find dismaying is that the mental health professionals who oversee the blogs at PsychCentral have yet to flag this post and address it as an example of a woman struggling to manage her serious mental health diagnoses and parenting. There should be an addendum by the psychologist/therapist coordinating the blogs noting that this was an inappropriate and unhealthy way to handle the situation with her son along with suggestions on how she could have handled it more appropriately.
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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Whew, for a minute there I thought it might be my Ex who was writing that blog post. Same kind of person, but fortunately not her.
Anyway, I don’t know if it helps, but here is the ABOUT info for the Bi-Polar Mom;
Beth is a 30 year old wife, and mother of 4 beautiful children who was recently diagnosed with Ultra-Rapid Cycling Bipolar, Borderline Personality Disorder, PTSD, Anxiety, and Paranoia.
Additionally she is evidently still married to a man she refers to in glowing terms (i.e. “he is the love of my life”, “He works so hard to help me stay healthy, and to help keep up with the house and take care of the kids.”)
But I wonder how honest she is since in the post where she says such things she makes it quite obvious that she doesn’t say such things normally and that her treatment of her husband that one day (their anniversary) is not something she has done before or likely to do again and is not the norm. I have experience with this kind of behvior where you are told “this better last you the rest of your life because I am not doing this again”.
She is definitely not firing on all cylinders.
Hi Woody,
I didn’t read her bio. The one blog post was difficult to read because of her attitude and justification of her behavior. Hate to say it, but I’m not surprised by the the mix of diagnoses. According to the blog, she and her current husband have been married for 8 years, which means he may not be the biological father (the son who was threatened and abused is a teen). In which case, I still wonder where the boy’s father is.
Someone claiming to be her husband tried posting a comment here within 30 minutes of having published this piece. The person who left the comment says no abuse takes place in their home and more defenses and justifications. Maybe there was no abuse. Maybe the blogger was trying to be funny. Nevertheless, the way the blogger describes the episode sure comes across as abuse to me.
The whole “enjoy me being nice to you better last you the rest of your life” thing is also pretty mean. Being kind to your partner shouldn’t be viewed as doing some huge favor. Kindness ought to be the baseline.
The operative term being “ought to.” With this type though, kindness doesn’t come naturally. If you’re in that kind of relationship and leaving simply isn’t an option, how do you fix it?
You can’t fix what you didn’t break, Mike D. If you believe you must stay, the best thing you can do is implement iron clad boundaries and learn to emotionally detach. Be prepared for your partner’s crazy and abusive behaviors to escalate at first. These types don’t like boundaries and other limits placed upon them, but eventually, you should see some difference. Implementing natural consequences for abusive behaviors is also important. I don’t think what is left will be much of a relationship, but then you probably don’t have that now. However, you might be able to minimize some of the conflict, drama and abuse.
That’s the position bipolar mom’s kid is in. At 14(?) I don’t think he has much choice but to stay.
I have a great deal of respect for you, Tara, but there’s something bothering about mom’s journal and this post. It’s not the description of abuse. On that point, you and I agree. She doesn’t see it, but most objective 3rd parties would.
Her blog could be a therapeutic tool. It’s a cry for help. If she says her goal is to become a wonderful mother, I see that as her recognition of a need for change. The behavior she’s admitted may be repulsive, but the only way to make a difference is to be a friend.
Unconditional acceptance. Good people sometimes do bad things. You and I have an advantage: We can see people from that perspective. It’s what gives us the ability to help.
Just a thought. Either way you’re entitled to your opinion, and I respect it.
Hi Mike,
I don’t know if the post was a cry for help. I only know what I read.
The author does not say in the OP that she felt bad about the incident. She does not express remorse — until the blog she posted today in which she accuses me of defaming and slandering her. Now she’s expressing some remorse, which seems like backpedaling to me. She’s the one who defames herself with her own words.
Furthermore, she does not ask for support and advice on how she might better handle future incidents. She claimed that was her “being nice” and wondered if her son would be “brave” enough to act up again.
If it was a cry for help, it was missed by the mental health professionals who run PsychCentral. As stated earlier, if this blog had been posted on my platform, I would have intervened in a gentle, but firm manner.
I think her therapist and psychologist should be a friend by holding her accountable for her behaviors and by teaching her better coping skills. “I’m ill, so deal with it” isn’t a coping skill. Perhaps they have and that is why she’s considering ending treatment with both her therapist and psychiatrist (according to other posts she’s written).
I hope the author gets all the support and help she needs. But I don’t think saying, “Atta girl!” in response to the OP is being a friend; it’s being an enabler. And PsychCentral is enabling her for allowing the OP on their platform without making some kind of intervention or statement about it.
Unconditional acceptance is an interesting concept. I don’t think anyone should unconditionally accept abuse, no matter the underlying causes for it.
Thank you for your thoughts, Mike D. I appreciate the feedback.
I understand you’re not her therapist. I’m not suggesting an atta boy. This could be a teachable moment, however. As much as I loathe that term.
Farther down in the comments you mention “Don’t shout back.” This personality type provokes to get the nugget. By painting her as the villain in this drama, it seems she’s getting what she needs. Attention. Affirmation that she *is* a victim. Her dysfunctional family is rallying to her defense. That’s an unhealthy form of gratification. If anything is enabling, it’s playing the foil.
There might not be an overt cry for help, and that’s the part that’s bothering me.
Let me throw this out there, and tell me what you think. Rather than get sucked into her drama, a good first step would be to acknowledge and affirm her goal of becoming a better mother. Part of ‘becoming a better mother’ is to recognize her son as a feeling human being.
Unconditional acceptance is an integral part of cognitive behavior therapy, which in my opinion is what mom needs. She needs to learn it. To do that she needs a healthy personality to model it. In my humble opinion, that is.
Looking forward to your radio show, T. 😉
Hi Mike,
This is a great discussion. Thank you.
As we both know, saying “I want to be a good mother” or “I want to be a good partner” or “Things will get better” is all well and good. Having the desire to be a good mother or partner often isn’t enough. You have to work at it and own your mistakes and learn from them. This can be tough even when you don’t have multiple MH diagnoses. Just like I’m doing now after having kicked the hornet’s nest. And yes, the irony of becoming the foil for BM’s victimhood by my own volition has not escaped me.
Of course, people want to be better mothers and fathers and better partners. The questions is how are they going to achieve that? Wanting to grow and change and actually doing something in order to grow and change are two different things.
I acknowledge that she wants to be a better mother and hope that she’s getting support and positive modeling to achieve just that. Part of being a better mother would be to own up to the abusive behavior — even if it only happens “occasionally.” Another reason I published this piece is because no other MH professionals spoke up to say on the OP, “Hey, this isn’t cool.”
While you can accept a person unconditionally — “This is who you are; you’re an imperfect being; we’re all imperfect beings who want love and acceptance” — I draw the line at accepting hurtful/abusive behaviors unconditionally. Additionally, if after telling someone that they’re hurting you and they continue to do so, I think it’s okay to withdraw acceptance and protect yourself. Kids don’t have that luxury when the person hurting them is a custodial parent.
When a child acts out, you explain that you love the child, but the bad behavior is unacceptable. I don’t know BM personally. I’m sure she has the best of intentions and sincerely hope what she described is an infrequent incident.
Thanks re: the radio show, Mike. I’m looking forward to it, too.
Well said.
I’m glad you clarified ‘unconditional acceptance.’ Your understanding is exactly like mine. It’s the person I choose to accept, not their behavior.
Keep kicking those hornet’s nests. Tara. It’s one of the things I admire about you.
Hi Dr. T.
I missed the 8 year part, sorry. That makes more sense now knowing that the boy she decided to verbally assault and threatened with physical assault is a teenager. I feel for her current husband as I just got done dealing with a similar type, although she hasn’t been diagnosed except her own which she wants to believe is just Bi-Polar.
If he actually did post something like you described it would not surprise me because he is still in the early stage when he might be rationalizing everything and trying to convince himself that he hasn’t made a huge mistake and tries very hard to do her public relations where he is the “problem solver” when she makes a scene or posts something so obviously bad to any sane person reading it. I went through that phase and I can tell you that I would swallow anything and could actually convince myself that she didn’t do anything really bad because she didn’t mean it and was simply misunderstood by people who don’t know her.
And her anniversary “surprise” is a maintenance action in a very transactional relationship. I would bet that he will be paying for that one night for years to come and anytime he fails to be “perfect” in her opinion he will hear all about how wonderful she was to do that for him and why can’t he ever do the same for her. Based on her description of what she said he does it sounds like she set the bar for him about 20 feet above where she set the bar for herself on that one night.
I do understand now that I should expect a minimum level of kindness from my partner and I can tell you that I learned that here at Shrink4men. It should have been something I expected from the start, but I had been taught by the culture I grew up in that woman were allowed to act like my Ex did because that is “just the way wives are” and it was “all part of being married”. When people you meet influence you at a young age to set your standards so low all you can expect is for some Personality Disordered person to come along and live down to them.
I think that is exactly what this women is trying to do with her blog after reading her many posts. She is simply trying to influence others to allow insane people like herself to do as they please because woe are they for having to deal with so many mental issues. She is working to set the bar so low that it requires no effort on her part to shuffle her feet across or more likely drive one of those inane electric scooters they have in stores across the bar.
Once she finds enough people who will allow her to live down to those expectations, why then she will have found an entirely new audience to satisfy her ego just like the audience I am sure she has built locally with people she tells her tales of woe too. It is one thing to share your problems in order to help yourself to better understand them or to help others by conveying what you may have learned by what you experienced, but to relate the things she does in the way she does with no remorse for the damage she causes or the people she hurts is just pathetic. And then to act like she can do anything and it’s all alright because she has this shtick, this “hey I am sick so I can’t be expected to act normally” crap. It is just so sad.
Sorry for the lengthy reply, guess it touched a not quite entirely healed nerve. As always, it’s just my 2 cents and I can be wrong.
Woody,
Your 2-cents are priceless. Thank you for sharing your thoughts here.
She’s textbook! Violent threats (whether actually meaning them or not) ARE abusive, even if her teenage son or ‘husband’ believes it or not…they have both likely been abused their whole lives, so they have no other version of relationships to reality-test her very sick version of ‘truth.’
Within 30 minutes, eh? Someone’s keeping a close eye on you, Dr. T!
Ugh, “He knows I’m crazy!” (i.e. using this as an excuse to do Whatever She Wants with no accountability)
“He deserves what he gets.” (from his mother). The scary thing is, when that poor boy starts dating, #1: he’ll seek out a teeny-bopper crazy just like dear old mom, and #2: Mommy Dearest (“I’m an excellent mother.” Sure….) will encourage him to be with an abusive GF just like her…cuz he deserves what he gets!!! And that will serve to further justify her own behavior (“See? All women are like this!”) Poor kid.
C-AB: “I dared him to ever speak to me again with such disrespect, ranted like a lunatic, screamed and yelled, finally grabbed his face and told him if he ever did it again I’d make sure his braces ended up on the outside of his lips.
… Then I told him if he ever did it again, I wouldn’t be so nice. Ha. Yeah, that was nice.”
Mommy, I’ll do whatever you say…I’ll tell that mean ol Dr. T that you’re a nice mommy, I promise mommy. I’ll even pretend to be step-dad…okay, mommy? Just please don’t ever be ‘nice’ to me like that again!!
When people start sentences with “Well…anyway,” it’s like they are completely brushing off what they just said, “Yeah, I killed ’em….so, Anyway…”
Crazy Creepy Abusive.
See ya in 10-30 years, young man.
It’s more likely the blogger gets pingbacks to other blogs/websites that post a link to her blog. Although, I’ll probably end up being watched now, which is why I considered not using a hyperlink. Always go with the first instinct.
Some of the comments/suggestions to better cope with frustration/anger on the OP were actually pretty sound. Who knows, maybe she’ll follow-up on some of the advice. I posted this here to use as an example of the reasoning employed by some individuals with these issues.
Absolutely disgusting. Way to go lady, you got in the face of, and threatened violence to, a kid with absolutely no recourse and no way to escape. Anyone can be mean and “tough” to people who can’t retaliate. Do you pound on bird cages and fish tanks too?
The kid doesn’t know any better if he thinks that wasn’t abuse. It took me until I was 32 to figure out how totally dysfunctional my extended family is, and how rotten some of the crap my mom pulled was. It all seemed normal and deserved to me back then.
Sorry you went through that, Mr E. You didn’t deserve it back then and you don’t deserve it now.
Again, the blogger claims her son said this. Just like the “private” conversation between the son and niece that they intended her to hear. Huh?
Thank you, though I didn’t mean to make it about me – just to illustrate that a kid raised in that environment probably thinks that’s just how he/she is supposed to be treated, because that’s all he/she knows.
Having cooled down for a moment, I imagine it’s pretty likely that the claims about what the kid said and the overheard conversation were fabrications/distortions. After all, the story wouldn’t be nearly as effective at portraying her as “Heroic Tough Mom” if she ended with, “Now he just stays in his room, gives monosyllabic answers, and avoids me whenever possible.”
Didn’t take it that way at all, Mr E. I think a lot of men and women who experienced this kind of treatment as kids can definitely relate. I remember one of my friend’s parents used to threaten to use “the belt” if my friend misbehaved. It even hung on their living room wall until the other parent finally took it down — didn’t want to give neighbors the wrong idea, also, it was scary to see the threat of corporal punishment looming on the wall. The belt would never have been used on me, but I found it scary, too, although, definitely not as scary as my friend.
She’s BRAGGING about being abusive. I’d say she’s definitely co-morbid.
She is co-morbid. Didn’t read her bio until after I posted the piece.
The line between parental discipline and abuse. As described, if this is a “one of” event (probably not), it is abuse but ANYONE can lose their temper once. Especially with a teenager. How the scenario’s ended follow…
Scenario #1: 15 year old boy brings a pistol (loaded and in working order) to school.
Action as a parent?
#2: 16 yr old girl steals Mom’s car (third time) and leads the Police on a merry chase. The 12 yr old sister is in the car.
Action as a parent?
#3: 15 year old boy runs away and is discovered drunk and runs from not only Dad but the Police and has to be fought into custody?
Action as a parent?
#4: 16 year old boy hosts drinking party whilst parents are away for the weekend. The house is trashed to the tune of $10,000 dollars. 13 are arrested.
Action as a parent of one of the party goers? Host?
#1: Epic ass whupping! Family had zero Police contacts. No school disciple problems. Dad was a normal unassuming guy.
#2: Wrath of Mom! Best double back hand I have ever seen or heard. Other than the 16 year old car thief no Police contacts, school issues, etc.
#3: Wrath of Dad! The boy did not know Dad was that fast. No Police contacts, school issues, etc.
#4: Carnage! BIG screen TV. Destroyed. Kitchen floor. Destroyed. Basement. Destroyed. Furniture. Destroyed. The kid is still paying for the damages. No Police issues, school issues, etc.
BTW…Gun was secured. Car was secured.
Are the punishments dealt out abuse or not? After the physical intervention none of these kids had any other Police contacts. ZERO. They all flew straight.
Just something to think about.
I am in no way advocating beating your kids, screaming at them, belting them, belittling them, etc. Occasionally physical discipline is what needs to happen to stop the insane out of control behavior when nothing else works and reasonably normal, sane, unmediated, sober parents are involved.
Correction. Unmedicated.
I get what you’re saying, Mark.
However, the kid didn’t bring a loaded pistol school or incur $10,000 damage to his family home or repeatedly commit grand theft auto. He said “Whatever” and gave his mother some back talk, which I believe is your point. That’s a “go to your room and no TV, PS3, computer or phone tonight” offense, isn’t it?
I read through the various scenarios and the apparent response. It wasn’t clear to me if the scenarios were real events or not. For whatever it is worth, I have two grown children so I have raised two. One thought is that the best time to teach children to be respectful is when they are really small and that happens by treating your children with respect. I think if they have been treated respectfully as children it is much less likely that are going to be disrespectful as they become teenagers. It seems somewhat doubtful to me that a teenager will be saying “shut up” to his/her parent if he/she has never been told to shut up. I think, from what I have observed as I’ve raised my own children, that a fair number of adults think nothing of saying to their children “shut up” and then are surprised and angered when the children say it to the parent as it gets older. I hear parents say very disrespectful things to young children, say rather belittling things to them, hear them be insulting in various ways. Don’t do it to your kids if you don’t want it to come back to haunt you later. And if you do it in the heat of a moment, reflect on it and apologize to your child. I’ve also heard a couple of parents insist that no matter what they have done to their child, they should never apologize to their child or admit they have made a mistake. Don’t call your child a “sh*t” either, and then be surprised if they say that and more back to you as a teen. But for god’s sake, if they do say it to you, have the emotional wherewithall to resist getting in their face. For god’s sake, when would it ever be okay to backhand anyone. If you did that to an adult you might well find that you were in an all-out fight and find yourself facing battery charges. Why ever do it to a child? Is it that some adults will do that because they are angry and a child can’t or isn’t likely to fight back, isn’t likely to press charges?
The best way to ensure that your 16 year old doesn’t have a party in your house and doesn’t trash your house is not to leave the 16 year old alone in the house for the weekend.
Though I think many teens are likely to drink and it is likely hard to keep them from ever doing such a thing, it occurs to me that one way to help promote the idea of responsible drinking is to model responsible drinking. It’s also been curious to me, to hear parents talk of their own partying ways and then be surprised, and outraged, that their own children would do the same kinds of things as they become teens. You can talk to your child as they approach the ages when it is likely they will experiment with drinking/drugs about what is responsible behavior, you can tell them that if they ever do such things and aren’t safe to drive home or don’t feel safe at someone else’s house, to call and you’ll come and get them, no questions, and then discuss it later when they aren’t drunk or high.
And as for the particular offense in the blog, the teen yelling shut up and whatever, that would not have even been something I’d have dealt with as a “go to your room and no TV” punishment. I’d have talked, straight and honest, about not speaking to me like that, that it isn’t respectful and, since it is not how I ever treated either of my children, I’d have pointed out that it isn’t how I speak to them. I’d say this firmly but without screaming and without getting in their face.
Lastly, if a teen did this sort of thing in a classroom at school, yelled at the teacher and said “shut up”, parents would be in a fury if the teacher responded by getting up in the face of their child. Likely the teacher would receive a reprimand. And if a teacher were to deal with bad classroom behavior by slapping a child, again the teacher would be in big trouble and the parents of a child that received that would be furious. So have the decency to have the self-control that is expected of teachers when dealing with children, your own or someone else’s. And start teaching respect when the children are little, speaking to them with respect, remembering to say your pleases and thank yous to them just as you would to an adult, and modeling the behavior you expect from your child.
Just noticed the following in the quote I took from one of bipolar mom’s comments:
“I am an excellent mother. My children are well cared for and loving.”
Shouldn’t “loving” be “loved?” That’s interesting. Nothing is wrong because her kids are “loving.” What about them being loved?
What the BPD/BPD Mom fails to realize, is that the kid, albeit bigger than her at this age, still has “respect” for her because that is what has been ingrained in him. At some point, when he is older and has been around “normal” people, he will realize that her treatment of him was abusive and unwarranted and his “respect” for her will dissipate, along with his need/want to be around her at all.
Maybe, maybe not. There are many people who go through their entire lives believing they deserved their parents’ abuse. It’s heartbreaking.
I went to this woman’s blog and read the whole thing plus the replies. I note that she defends her behavior, stating that this is not what she usually does, this is occasional. Does a woman have to be raped 100 times to be emotionally harmed, or only once? My point is that when it comes to abusive behavior, and I think what this woman describes about her own behavior is abusive, then one time might be enough to do considerable emotional harm. And since she says it is something that happens only occasionally, she is implying that it happens other times, too. I don’t think the harm from abuse is about how often one is abused, it has to do with the emotional impact of the abuse. Lasting emotional harm could come from a single episode.
All parents do make occasional mistakes, maybe get too angry about something they shouldn’t, but as Dr. T says, normally a person would feel bad about it, apologize to the child, tell them the child he/she didn’t deserve an angry response and the parent would strive to behave better. There is no need, in my opinion, to be up in the face of a mouthy teenager in order to teach them respect. You can teach intimidation that way. But that’s not respect. And if it is true that the child subjected to that says that he/she didn’t feel harmed by it, thinks they deserved it, well, let’s revisit that child when he/she is about 45 and see if he/she feels the same way at that age. The child depends on his/her parent, is hardly going to do something that further jeopardizes his/her own security by saying anything critical.
I think what the woman did is abusive, too.
“There is no need, in my opinion, to be up in the face of a mouthy teenager in order to teach them respect. You can teach intimidation that way. But that’s not respect. And if it is true that the child subjected to that says that he/she didn’t feel harmed by it, thinks they deserved it, well, let’s revisit that child when he/she is about 45 and see if he/she feels the same way at that age. The child depends on his/her parent, is hardly going to do something that further jeopardizes his/her own security by saying anything critical.”
I agree, moundbuilder. Threats and violence do not teach respect. It teaches fear and how to use intimidation tactics to control others.
“I just think any kid who decides to go head to head with his bipolar mom deserves exactly what he gets. Specially when he’s 14 and he totally knows better. He knows not to test his bipolar mother!!”
This is the ending paragraph from her blog. What a piece of work this woman is. So because she has a dx, she gets to be horrible to anyone who gets in her face? And her 14 yo kid should “know better?”
Well, there is proof positive that a parent can guarantee 20 years of therapy for a kid. He will divorce a woman just like her at least once, and probably gift his kids with a mom like her before he wakes up and realizes that normal people, loving moms, don’t act like this, and his is within his rights to call the cops if someone gets up in his face like this.
It is astounding to me the crap that people will proudly and stridently post and claim online, in the public world forum of the internet.
How long before the crazee sends a hatemail demanding to have her own words, that she so proudly boasted about, taken down because this blog post is obviously no more than a “smear campaign?”
LOL. How dare you, Dr. T, show a wider and less accepting audience her proud post?
Crazees HATE when you turn the light on and show them to be the elephant defouling the living room.
Hi LiliM,
You’re very prescient as I did receive an email from Bipolar Mom this morning and have since incorporated it in to the above post.
I have a great deal of sympathy for individuals struggling with mental illness — to a point. It can be a nightmare and I understand that. However, get help. Get treatment. Just as with diabetes or another medical condition, the person with the illness is responsible for managing it. My sympathy stops when they use their illness as an excuse to hurt others.
Whenthescapegoatquits said it best in one of her comments:
“Your right to swing your arms around ends where my right not to be hit starts.”
As stated earlier, I decided to write about this because I believe Bipolar Mom’s original post gives a very good glimpse into the reasoning some individuals with these conditions employ to justify their behaviors. Many of the people who come here seeking support from being involved with abusive, high-conflict and possibly personality disordered partners/family members just want to understand what’s going on in their abuser’s head. I think the OP provides some of that insight.
“The right to swing my fist ends where the other man’s nose begins.” – Oliver Wendell Holmes
Thanks for citing the original source, Mike. Exscapegoat mentioned it’s paraphrased in her original comment.
Monikers and labels… the power a single word/phrase/term.
Being labeled “bi-polar”, in this instance, seems to have given the woman free-reign to act like a nut. I don’t see anywhere if she was actually diagnosed by a professional as bi-polar, or if she has come up with that diagnosis on her own, therefore giving her license to be a jerk. Too many women will actually say “yeah, i’m a bitch so deal with it”, thinking this gives them license to actually be a bitch. Same thing with guys and their “typical guy” or “good old boy” attitudes to mistreat women. I am a man/woman/bi-polar/ADHD/whatever the catch phrase or term that gives them an excuse to be a jerk.
Conversely, i have been labeled “the strong one” or “the patient one” before – many times. With these labels seems to come with the mindset that i have unlimited patience or without a breaking point of the other person, giving them license to push those limits and beyond. When i tell the person “i need you to stop doing this” or “what you’re doing is hurting me” then by golly the “patient/strong one” has reached his limits, therefore stop. When my patience runs out and i stand up for myself with a less calm demeanor, that’s when they’ll play the victim and then criticize my patience (after hours or even days of putting up with something). My response is “let me get this straight… what you want more from me is more patience with you to counteract your lack of patience with me?! I have a better idea, you go first”.
The other thing that got me with with this post is how she stood up to her son in front of another – causing a spectacle. They’re willing to cause a GREAT spectacle if they think it makes them look good. But as you pointed out, they’re smart enough not to leave any physical marks, or anything that might get them into trouble. Now perhaps she thought that since he started this with her niece in the room that she’ll take care of this with her in the room. Fair enough. But she seemed to revel in the spectacle she made because she had an additional audience, who is probably someone she knew she could get away with it.
Causing a scene is a great point, Freedom. As long as the crazee is running the scene, there is nothing wrong with it. They are ‘standing up for themselves’ or whatever the excuse is for shoddy behavior towards another person.
If this mom is truly dx with all the things she claims in her bio, then it is on HER to manage her crappola with her mental instability issues. NOT her 14 year old kid. To me, that makes her even more abusive than getting in his face. She is the adult, and as the adult, even if it is name only, it is on her to manange her “illness”. Not the people around her, and certainly not her minor kids.
Because you are right. Having a “condition” is not an excuse to be an abuser.
I notice also she is not willing to allow any commentary that calls her behavior to the mat all that much on her blog. Because it’s “not helpful”.
Unlike the tidbit of avoiding dealing with the whole nasty CPS agency by restraining yourself from hitting your kid’s brace-filled mouth. THAT, of course, is very helpful and informative.
Part of me wants to laugh at the sheer insanity by her statements. The other part cries for her kid.
She came across as “i’m bi-polar!!!!! ALL SHALL FEAR ME!!!!”. It’s like its become her sword and her shield. She can use her diagnosis (i still think she self-diagnosed) as a way to cut thru others, then turn around and use it as something to hide behind. Its an excuse that can be used as a weapon with impunity, but when you take her to task for the damage she can say “what did you expect, i’m bi-polar?”. There are many people who are bi-polar that don’t use it as a weapon. It’s just wrong… period.
Yes she did. A mental illness is not an excuse to wield your behavior like an axe. That is what she is doing. Tiptoe around me, or I will beat you down in every way possible that I can without calling CPS down on me.
People like this are the reason that a lot of the general public rolls their eyes regarding claims of mental illness. Ok, so you have a problem. Get off your butt and do something to correct it. Don’t just expect the rest of the world stuck dealing with you to alter their reality to deal with yours.
Ugh.
The other thing that got me – i thought it was funny – was her sounding so proud that she climbed 7 to 8 inches just so she could get in his face. She made it sound like she just climbed Mount Everest, and all so she could stand eye to eye and cut the boy down. I laugh cuz it reminds me of Danny DeVito’s character in Taxi, pulling out some cabinet drawers to climb up and get in someone’s face. “Wait a minute… eeek… ack… (straining as she climbs)… (breathing heavily)… Ok, now… let me tell you something about YOU!!!”.
I had the same thought about Sir Edmund Hillary scaling Everest. Just the fact that she brought up the size difference tells me she’s got some sort of inferiority complex, and constantly feels like she’s got something to prove. Kinda like a verbally abusive Doug Flutie.
Thanks to Dr. T for sharing this with us! I hope her children are able to get help somehow.
Maybe immissing something here but I thought child abuse, documented and confessed to as here, is against the law and actionable. Given that this is a publicly posted blog why hasn’t law enforcement and/ or CPS looked into or done anything about this woman?
That is an excellent question.
Don’t know. Many CPS departments are just as dysfunctional as the populations they serve. Also, since she did not physically strike her son during this episode, CPS might not find that an investigation is warranted.
What I don’t understand is why one of the psychologists at PsychCentral.com didn’t flag this post, step in and discuss that what she describes is verbal abuse and how it is damaging to her son even if her son, as Bipolar Mom claims, is okay with it.
Tough love and abuse are two different things entirely. Perhaps she’s confusing the two.
Just noticed how BM after threatening physical violence to her son tells him, in the same breath, how much she loves him. How many of you have experienced something like that and what were the effects upon you?
It was fairly common of my mom to do this, threaten and terrorize (though, if it actually got physical, there would be no “love” afterward), scream, demolish, and degrade, and then say that she loved me/us (I have a sister who typically found herself standing next to me during these ordeals; when we were alone, things had the chance of really getting ugly.).
As for the effects, it’s hard to tell at this point (20), as the answer to the relationship question has been “What relationships?”. For what it’s worth, the “ideal woman” that appears in my head splits between loving and terrifying (I’m not sure I can like someone I’m not at least a little intimidated by, but saying and thinking are different from doing.). Otherwise, I left home (for boarding school) at 15, and haven’t spent more than three months at home since, currently attending university and making half-decent grades in spite of the fact that my modes of living seem to be “do nothing and be miserable”, or “work so much I don’t have time to think”. My one striving at this point (and one I more or less have a hold on, though I’s have to burn a bridge or two if it came to that) has been to achieve financial independence (15 years of parents at war over money can do that). Currently, I work 40+ hours a week while taking 15 credit hours (Fortunately, my boarding school experience allowed me to earn a scholarship which pays for tuition, so I have but the “usual” expenses of living.) for that privilege, but the ability to about face and walk away from my mother at any time (and, not be lectured about her financial sacrifices for me; at this point she receives more in tax breaks for claiming me as a “dependent” than is spent on me)is more than worth it (We have a cordial, though a bit awkward on my part relationship. I keep my distance and when together we pretend to be a “real family”, her words. Though, I suppose she can see this as I was recently lectured for “acting as if I don’t have parents”, which I suppose was precisely the point.), and I don’t know what to do anyhow (not much of a social butterfly, partying type by any stretch of the imagination).
Just added updates to the original post as I received an email from Bipolar Mom. What would you do?
Just what you did. Show her post in her own words, not just a copy and paste. She said this stuff. I went and looked at her blog after reading your post. She said all that you said she did.
What I find ugly is that she is proudly flying her I am the Big Bad Bipolar Mommy flag in her forum, bragging about how she used abuse to cow her kid, and here, she doesn’t want that flag flying. It’s only ok where she thinks she will get some ‘Atta Gurlz!’ from those who feel having mental illness is a reason to behave badly?
Again, for me, it comes back to If you stand by what you say, post it on the internet. If you don’t, don’t post it. Because it will come back to haunt you.
As bipolar mom discovered.
I think your choice was a wise one. You have allowed her to address what she feels are inaccurate portrayals, and shown where you gathered information from to form your opinion. Her words. If she is not happy with your opinion, that’s fine. She is welcome to not be. BUT – perhaps she needs to take a look at the words she puts out there that allow others to form such an opinion.
If she does have BPD, there is a reason she cannot make the connection from her words to your opinion. Because the BPDd individual does not feel that anything other than what they think and feel is accurate. If you think otherwise, you are wrong, and interpreting incorrectly, and being mean, and etc, etc, etc.
POSTED TO BETH IN HER RESPONSE TO YOUR VIEWS ON HER PARENTING:
Quite honestly, I think you’ve both behaved totally inappropriately here.
Firstly, thanks for your honesty, Beth…though I doubt your post was helpful to anyone, but perhaps yourself. I don’t believe Dr Palmatier took your words out of context, (from what I’ve read) and yes…I believe that she had every right to be concerned about your behaviour toward your son. It’s not acceptable parenting to scream and intimidate one’s kids…under ANY circumstances.
It did sound like you were justifying and yes…almost reveling in your bad behaviour…sorry. Your rages may be a thing of entertainment for you in retrospect, but I doubt they’re a laughing matter for anyone who has to be on the end of them…particularly your children! However, I understand that you must undoubtedly find it extremely challenging to cope at times if indeed your diagnoses are correct. But…your difficulties do not make your behaviour excusable.
Having said all of this, however, I read the Dr’s response to your post and was dismayed at her lack of professionalism in voicing her concerns. I could not believe the judgmental tone of her response…her words were almost a little personal and vindictive to be honest (for a second, I had to question whether perhaps the two of you knew each other outside of the anonymity of your respective internet forums). Because, at the end of the day, she should know better than to make assumptions about people she has never met, regardless of their words!! An extremely irresponsible and unskilled mental health professional, if you ask me. Perhaps a little jaded…and burnt out. Either way…I found her response unprofessional…and if I was her and valued my reputation…I wouldn’t be putting my name to it. Again…I doubt her post helped anyone but herself.
A lack of insight on both accounts, Beth. Yours and Dr Palmatiers!
Hi lu-lah,
Actually, I drafted this article 2 weeks ago and deliberated whether or not I should post it. As mentioned in other comments, I decided to publish it because it provides insight into the reasoning employed by some individuals with personality disorders who justify what amounts to abusive behavior.
Why should I be exempt from having opinions and expressing concerns because I’m a psychologist? Mental health professionals have opinions and make judgments everyday. Mental health professionals judge whether or not to hospitalize. Mental health professionals judge whether or not some individuals should have custody of their children.
I quoted the source material directly and share the same opinion as you; the author’s behavior comes across as abusive. I believe the questions I ask are valid ones.
In my coaching and consulting practice, I work with many men who are married to/have exes with the author’s issues. Many describe observing incidents described by Bipolar Mom. Many of my clients stay in extremely abusive relationships to the detriment of their own physical health and mental well-being to protect their kids from behavior similar to the behavior Bipolar Mom describes in her post. So, yes, I have concerns and judgments about the behavior she described in relation to her son and as it relates to my practice.
I agree about my lack of insight. I know better than to kick a hornet’s nest and now I’m experiencing a consequence of a choice I made.
Ultimately, I hope my article helps individuals who are on the receiving end of similar abuse and/or have to witness abuse. That’s the point and it’s not personal to Bipolar Mom.
Dr. T only asked the questions that those of us who read the post were thinking. There were no assumptions. Only fair questions asked. If asking questions is making assumptions, then mental health care professionals all over the world are really making assumptions regarding every one of their patients.
If you have a mental illness, and you know it – it is on you to address it, and treat it, and control it – not use it to beat down your kids verbally, or to insist your kids tiptoe around it and accept responsibility for it when they don’t.
Difference between entitlement and accountability. Dr.T is to be applauded for asking for accountability for those that think mental illness excuses swinging an axe like a Viking beserker.
A rather hypocritical response, given you give the same opinions Dr. T gives, just with a bit more “coddle the poor women, let the son fend for himself”. And you then go on to make assumptions, judgments and accusations based on Dr. T’s words, calling her jaded and burnt out, vindictive, the very action you claimed makes her Irresponsible. That’s hardly a gleaming admonishment, to condemn an action by repeating it precisely. Sounds more like shaming language intended to silence an unwanted opinion/truth. I must ask, are you one of the Psychologists from psychcentral.com?
If the woman wasn’t bipolar would the verbal abuse and the threat of physical violence to her son even be acceptable? It’s horrifying to realize that the woman feels that she is exempt from ordinary decency.
Hi Shadowkitty,
EVen though your question is rhetorical. . . The behavior described in the OP is unacceptable with or without a mental health diagnosis. The reason her diagnoses are mentioned in the post is because she uses them to excuse her behavior.
I haven’t read all of the comments yet, but want to quickly get out what struck me about this article before I forget:
BiPolar Mom:
“He continued with the attitude”….”It just infuriated me even more”: So her being infuriated is HIS fault. Lack personal accountability much?
“I am so limited in how I can handle such an obnoxious outburst”: Uh huh. I can yell, belittle or threaten. Those are what my options are “limited” to. Wait. There are more options than those?
“From my possibly bipolar son”: Projection, plain and simple. HE’S the one with the problem. Not her.
“bloodying a lip might very well might end up being an ER visit, stitches and a visit with Child Protective Services. No thanks.”: Cunning enough to weigh the risks. Makes me wonder what level of consequence IS reasonable and acceptable to a woman like this.
“I put on the “tough mom” suit”: “More of a “face” IMO. I used to think of my wife as wearing her “outside” face or her “behind closed doors” face. Now I just think of her as a shapeshifter.
“I threw my finger in his face and dared him to test me”: Yep, perfectly reasonable behavior for the adult in this situation. :::rolls eyes:::
“He knows better, he knows his mother is crazy”: Because she’s made it perfectly clear to him that when she “acts” this way, he better do what she wants. It’s her ploy to get her way. And the “Stockholm Syndrome” ensures it will continue to work. This boy needs therapy NOW in order to ever know what a “normal” relationship is.
“I dared him to ever speak to me again with such disrespect,”…”told him If he ever did it again, I wouldn’t be so nice.”: That’s a threat, period. Reading “The Gift of Fear right now and it discusses this very behavior…in people who are violent.
“ranted like a lunatic, screamed and yelled” – So…screaming and yelling, and ranted like a lunatic are two different things? I wouldn’t have guessed. Thought they’d pretty much be in the same category.
“I just think any kid who decides to go head to head with his bipolar mom deserves exactly what he gets”: HE deserves whatever HE gets? Because SHE can’t regulate her own behavior and emotions? She’s emotionally stunted and because HE KNOWS IT, that makes HIM responsible for HER behavior? Wow!
“I wonder if he’ll be that brave again”: Translation: I’ve emasculated him but good. Go me!
“I am an excellent mother”: Begging for Narcissistic Supply. Please tell me I am an excellent mother! Tell me, Dammit! I’ve taken to referring to these types of statements (I may have culled this from Dr. Tara, don’t remember) as Jedi Mind Tricks: “These are not the droids you’re looking for”…”These are not the droids we’re looking for.” The B/N/HPD wants you to believe THEIR version of reality, so they boldly TELL YOU what to believe.
“My children are well cared for and loving”: HA! Read between the lines here! Her “children are well cared for” means to her that they are fed, clothed and FORCED to behave how SHE wants them to in public. She doesn’t say they are LOVED, she says they are LOVING. They may be LOVING, but perhaps she was writing quickly (?) and was typing what was on her mind….that they are loving, not loved. That’s a HUGE “red flag” to me.
“I think you should hold yourself to higher standards”: You should hold YOURSELF to higher standards….but she’s exempt! YOU should play by society’s rules, but SHE gets a free pass. The sad part is that’s likely exactly what she’s thinking.
I swear sometimes I could get an honorary degree in abnormal psychology. Don’t think I want one, though. Lol
“My children are well cared for and loving”: HA! Read between the lines here! Her “children are well cared for” means to her that they are fed, clothed and FORCED to behave how SHE wants them to in public. She doesn’t say they are LOVED, she says they are LOVING. They may be LOVING, but perhaps she was writing quickly (?) and was typing what was on her mind….that they are loving, not loved. That’s a HUGE “red flag” to me.
I noticed this, too.
Yeah, after I read all of the comments, I noticed you already had commented on it.
You also mentioned in your post that you wondered where the boy’s father is.
Now, this is pure speculation based on my own instincts (which are based on my own experience) but…. I can’t help but wonder if the father is a big part of this boy’s life. Hear me out…
Seems to me that my own wife (and perhaps BPMom) is more abusive to the kids when I have the most interaction/time with them. So to me, 2 (my amount of time/interaction with the kids) + 2 (My wife is more abusive when I do) = Less time w/ dad = Less abuse by mom.
If these women (and again, just speculation) are abusing Dad by proxy because he’s no longer there (low/no contact), then in their minds…how do they continue to abuse their ex-spouse? Well, they abuse the kids, because THAT will hurt Dad.
I suspect that this boy’s father has not “dropped the rope” but is fighting BPMom for custody perhaps.
In my own experience, I’ve noticed that when duty calls, or simply the 3 hour time difference makes it difficult to keep in regular contact w/ my daughter…my (not soon enough) ex-wife lays off of her (them) a lot more. It seems like when she can’t “get to me” through the kids, she stops trying to “get to me” at all.
One of the main reasons I’m seriously thinking of not simply “dropping the rope” but cutting it completely. For the kid’s sake, and mine.
And like you’ve said before, it’s heartwrenching and heartbreaking, but if (and I hope this isn’t just rationalization) this would be what’s best for the kids, overall, then it must be what’s best…period.
When I read the article the first time it occurred blatantly that our Dr. T did the right thing to do. That is of course to bring us up to speed with the abhorrent behaviour of this woman in her home, and for that matter doing one better by appraising us all the more with the response by email.
So now we all know that we all know what’s going on here with postal cause and effect, and by it’s end so far a fresh measure of accountability all round.
When I read it a second time I realised something else and I’m going to run it by you (all) and look forwards to your thoughts.
Nobody doubts that we have on our hands a woman ill mannered by her illness. In fact, when we’re talking of an illness we’re talking of a cluster of them, yes ?
With this in mind I can’t help compare these illnesses to a cluster bomb itself. I mean cluster bombs blow things up. This is exactly what we expect when one is cranked out and let loose somewhere and we expect nothing else.
Without much thought at all I “tsk tsk’d” away with my first read, and still do, but now remind myself it may well be better to place a stronger shelf of true blame and accountability against the very site that permitted the blogger’s post to not only be there for more than a nanosecond, but to actually retain it’s presence long enough for it to stale.
I can only guess at the motivation of such a slight and I wonder still if it’s even a slight at all. The admin read every keystroke and like all blogs surgically edit contributions of poor grace and malcontent in any shape and from any source.
I’ll go one step further and state categorically that behind the curtain at psychcentral.com every thread is picked at carefully as any carrion bird does to newly dead. The very edict of the site itself must surely be the great attractor of all DSMIV entrants, and if this is true by any score then do you really think that they there haven’t caught onto this also ?
This type of thinking does my head in sometimes as most days I just prefer to take in agreeable weather or say g’day to my butcher. In fact anything less dark will do.
Then again, It’s not altogether enjoyable to know about and then ignore a “sciency” sounding website designed to help others, yet by some accounts has the ring about it of a drunken barge careening it’s way to a packed dock of the blind, the begging and desperate.
Agreed, Dr F.
Sick as Bipolar Mom is; the real travesty here is that not one mental health professional who oversees PsychCentral has intervened to 1) check to make sure her 4 children are safe and 2) publicly expressed on the PsychCentral platform that this woman’s behavior is abusive and damaging to her children and herself.
Not one.
“Don’t Test a Bipolar Mom!” is not an “isolated incident” as BM claims in one of her many revisionist comments. I’ve been reading through “Adventures of a Bipolar Mom” since this entire PsychCentral debacle unfolded a few days ago. Her oeuvre is rife with similar incidents — many worse than the one described in this article on S4M. Her other 3 children also appear to be targets of her abuse in addition to her 14-year-old son and husband.
BM is sick and she and her family need help and intervention.
What I want to know is what is this moving trainwreck doing on a mainstream psychology website as if the behavior she describes is healthy and acceptable. PsychCentral is run by doctoral level psychologists and masters level therapists.
At best, this is laissez-faire negligence. Perhaps no one is monitoring BM’s blog, which is frightening. Perhaps a PsychCentral psychologist is monitoring BM’s blog and thinks her behavior is okay, which is unthinkable.
So far, I’ve only stumbled upon one psychologist who has commented on BM’s blog.
In “Infidelity: A Consequence of Mania,” BM struggles to figure out who is to blame for a one night stand she had during what she now believes was a manic episode.
Was it the mania?
Was it her husband who was making her so angry that she had to go screw some stranger?
Was it the stranger’s fault who took advantage of her anger at her husband?
Was it her children’s fault?
The main point of this post wasn’t the infidelity and her guilt and regret, but that she couldn’t figure out who to blame for it. It certainly wasn’t her fault or anything. In fact, not knowing who to blame her behavior on “sucked” for BM.
She also goes on to say that her feelings are more important than taking responsibility for her behaviors — this gem may be in the comments section — can’t remember.
This is the first post I’ve read, in which an actual shrink comments on BM’s ongoing saga.
The psychologist’s comment was brief, but worth noting. Did she talk about how holding herself accountable is an important part of her recovery? Nope.
In her comment, the psychologist absolves BM of any responsibility for her actions and then tries to sell BM a copy of her book on Sex, Love and Mental Illness. This psychologist has ad space on PsychCentral in their clinician’s directory, however, she is NOT employed by PsychCentral.
At this point, I’m more disgusted with PsychCentral than I am with BM. She is what she is; they are mental health professionals and they’re in charge.
Strange. It appears that psychcentral may have removed BM’s article. The link in Dr. T’s original post no longer works and I could not locate it searching on the psychcentral site directly. Hmmmmm…..
Yep. I noticed that also when I tried to find it in order to read the comments.
BM removed yesterday and post a comment stating something to the effect that “things had gone too far” so she removed the post. More accurately, she’d lost the ability to control the narrative.
The posts remain on a support site for teens with bipolar disorder, however. Do a search for bipolarteenblog.com.
How is bipolar not a personality disorder? My mother was bipolar, most of my family is bipolar, and my ex-fiancee is also bipolar. I grew up thinking not to know what to expect from a person from one day to the next was normal. I saw some similar attributes of my mother in this woman. For one thing, she was a compulsive liar who made herself out to be this perfect parent when she hit me and verbally abused me on a regular basis. She liked to take credit for me becoming the first in my family to go to college, get my masters, and live a healthy adult life. Truth is I did so well for myself for two reasons: 1) I bucked the trend and did not become bipolar myself, and 2) I didn’t want my adult life to be like my childhood.
Life with my ex-fiancee was a nightmare. One day things were great, and the next she hated me with every ounce of her being for no reason. I moved here for her, and it took me two months to find work. One day she was understanding about what I was going through, the next day I was a lazy freeloader. Then I finally found full-time work (I was working two jobs upwards of 80 hours a week), and I was taking a class to get my exceptional education certification, and she was upset we couldn’t spend time together. Every day was a no-win situation. Between her and my crazy ex-wife, if I ever get married again my beloved is going to get a comprehensive psychological evaluation.
Bipolar disorder is largely inherited and involves significant mood swings involving distorted brain chemistry.
Personality disorders are developmental…the culmination of one’s parent’s personalities, parenting styles, attachment styles, presence/absence of childhood trauma, etc.
Despite all th bipolar d/o bashing going on here, it is a treatable medical illness suffered by many folks who are NOT abusive, and who go on to leave productive lives.
Not so much the case with those struggling with personality disorders, as meds only sugarcoat the symptoms. In other words, the prognosis isn’t as positive unless the PD’d person gets into some major therapy.
Thank you for fielding that one, dietrich. You’re correct and there’s a brief distinction made between bipolar disorder and borderline personality disorder at the very beginning of this article.
People are bashing the abusive behaviors, not people with bipolar disorder. Besides, I suspect the abusive behaviors BM describes engaging in are more connected to her borderline diagnosis than her bipolar diagnosis.
Thanks for enlightening me. I don’t want you to think that I am bashing bipolars. My mother was on a cocktail of medicine for bipolar, and I pray that my ex and my family come to realize they need help.
Hi YourDogsAllWet,
Bipolar disorder is sometimes misdiagnosed in individuals with borderline personality disorder. The impulsivity and mood swings sometimes present in both conditions is often confused by clinicians. Also, many clinicians view dispensing a dx of bipolar as less stigmatizing to their patients. Not smart because, as dietrich points out, the medication used to effectively manage bipolar disorder doesn’t typically help bipolar disorder.
Many people with bipolar disorder manage their condition very well. They’re not abusive and lead productive lives.
Funny, that was my first response (or, at least that of the angry 14 year old in me) to this mom, was to laugh (I had this problem as a teenager, mom would make some wild threat or accusation, like “you’ll beat any girlfriend you ever get”, and I’d laugh, which is NOT the appropriate reaction.), and then think something along the lines of “amateur”. Seriously, it just comes across to me as incredibly childish and immature to pick a condition (and, really, it could’ve been near anything in the DSM, given enough creativity), and then use it as a license to behave in a manner fit for a schoolyard bully. At least my mother had the temerity to completely deny ever being “wrong” about anything (On the other hand, she and my stepfather found it convenient to blame anything wrong I did on ADHD.), and the ability to scream at you and rip you apart, then break down in tears, as if you’d been the one spewing vile things (then call the grandparents and say just that, perfect for a “round two”. “Crazy” would’ve gotten my sister or I in deep trouble, as it was the implied accusation from our father (Frankly, she was far more convinced that he called her crazy than was actually the case.), and the perception of “disrespect” as in the article would’ve been met with “You don’t love me, you treat me like a dog, etc (though, I’ll say that my stepfather was far more concerned with such things, always dead convinced that I didn’t respect him, and then acting in a manner much like the BM to ensure that I indeed had no respect for him).
That said, having to deal with this sort of thing, i.e. she’s fully justified herself (whereas my mother simply altered reality as it suited her, no need to rationalize things that never happened) into acting more or less how she pleases, with no regard for what’s generally regarded as “acceptable”, isn’t going to be any fun for this 14 year old (Can we really blame him if he’s tuned himself out into a fog of “whatever”, as she seems to claim?), and I wish him the best of luck.
That’s just horrible. I always feel so sorry for children exposed to abusive behaviour, because they are the most defenseless and dependent people. Anyone who thinks that child abuse is something that only a pervert, dominating father can do has never seen a psychologicall unstable mother making their children’s lives unbearable.
Sadly, it happens very so often with women…
It is amazing to me how the loved ones, IE: Children, Spouse, Mom, Dad etc…, are ever so quick to excuse this type of abuse. Saying things like, “Oh, thats ok, she is a good mom and was just standing her ground. Thanks Mom” It is sad, yet it seems that this is the norm. I was in a marriage with a Bi-polar, schitzoeffective, borderline woman for almost 10 years. I should have got out after only 6 months but I thought; “poor lady, it’s not her fault. She is ill. With the right treatment she will be better.” or “It’s the mental illness, she can’t help it.” and a whole pleathera of other excuses and rationalizations. In truth what really happens is they don’t get better. They often get worse. The abuse escalates over time and we become hostages to there moods. Thank goodness I was able to get out with sole legal, sole physical custody care and control of our daughter. My advice. If you are involved with a PD that is rageful and abusive in the slightest. GET OUT NOW. For your own health and happiness.
I haven`t had the chance to read all the replies to this article, but I personally think that it is the attitude of (some, if not most, or even all) psychologists and psychiatrists that also enables those who have been diagnosed with disorders/PDs…
I have seen one case, in which the answer to “treat” bipolar was medication, medication, medication – and therapy, therapy, therapy…for the rest of their lives…I understand that bipolar is serious, but IMO – I think what they should be taught/coached into is learning how to handle the situations they face *themselves, and not just rely on medication, therapy, and the understanding of friends and family…
I think the attitude of the professionals in mental health is a bit off, because they sort of imply that there is no cure, there is nothing that can be done, but just accept that this is how this person is (the bipolar person, for example), and everyone else should be understanding towards them, regardless of what they do…or if they really are abusive, they are just locked up in a mental hospital until they appear to feel better – but again, with no actual solution for this situation…
I think that there are things that can be done (maybe not a lot, yet, in the case of PDs), besides medication and/or therapy…
I personally prefer coaching to therapy – because it shows the individual how to better *themselves, how to deal with the problem *themselves, how to handle *their part of the situation, how to take responsibility for *their role in the situation/relationship, and is helping *them to learn new ways of looking at the situation, and new behaviors to offer in the situation…as opposed to merely giving them yet another excuse for irrational, unreasonable, illogical, even abusive behavior, while dwelling in the specifics of the problem for years, and years of therapy…
I have seen this attitude in other areas of life, but in all cases I would recommend that the *disordered person does everything *they can to better themselves, and learn to be as normal as possible, and be encouraged by professionals and society towards progress, and NOT for everyone else (the normal ones) to simply lower our standards of life, and love, and respect, and kindness because this person who is not alright can`t “cope” with the normal, healthy, rational, reasonable, logical standards of normal people…
it`s as if we are, as a society let`s say, trying to hold ourselves back, and not hurt the irrational feelings of the disordered people – instead of teaching and encouraging them to become normal (as much as the situation allows), and self empowered again…
I think that teaching them how to function in *our *normal world would be beneficial not only to us, but also to them – because they would actually get to experience a rich life themselves…
wonderful article, and comments!
For some reason I’ve never read/seen this article by Dr. T. Great piece. Claudia, well said! I like your approach with the coaching – its more of a behavioral approach rather than just cognitive. Really, this is what it all boils down to. Behavior. MikeD and a few others scolded Dr. T for the article and her comments. However, Dr. T is not admonishing this mentally ill woman for being mentally ill; she is admonishing her for the bad behavior. Bad behavior does not get corrected unless its confronted. Dr. T gently but firmly confronts the bad behavior of others.
Alcoholics/Addicts almost never change their behavior by being coddled and enabled. In fact, the rationalizing and excuses make the behavior worse. Intervention & firmness are much more effective means to change their behavior. So it is with almost all other mental illnesses. No one blames them for being sick – genetic, environmental, physiological, whatever the cause – but we do hold people accountable FOR WHAT THEY DO (INCLUDING VERBAL/EMOTIONAL ABUSE).
Frankly, I’m tired of MikeD and others playing word games here and avoiding the necessary confrontation needed to change peoples’ behavior. We all have problems and issues, we all get mad, we all get sad, and feel ranges of emotions. However, we all don’t just go off the deep end and abuse others. In addition, surely if this had been a man berating his teenage son or daughter, he would have been villified by the entire world. So IMO, its not only an issue of needing to confront abusive behavior by mentally ill, its also the usual gender issue that other articles address on this site, how women get away with abuse and even murder while men are treated much more harshly for the same behavior.
Bottom line is, if you behave badly you’re going to get a negative response from the community/society. If you express a sincere desire to change and get help, the community/society almost always welcomes your request for help and will meet you half way to become a better person.
That`s exactly right – nobody is blaming them for being sick, but we do want them to learn to take responsibility for their own actions. And how can they learn to take responsibility for their own actions, if nobody ever holds them accountable for them?! Nobody is saying “let`s be harsh with them, and abuse them back” – but we are saying “actions have consequences, and we, the ones who understand this, choose to no longer make excuses for the disordered people, and choose to not give into their irrational, illogical, unreasonable excuses”.
We give them half of the excuses they have for avoiding responsibility, ourselves: we try to help by making things better/easier for them, by overcompensating in some ways, by excusing/justifying their behavior, by giving them another, and another chance, and in doing this, we have become too empathetic of irrational behaviors – and this *only perpetuates the existing situation furthermore. Other than that, there are no real benefits in doing this.
I see a crucial distinction between blaming and assigning responsibility: IMO, the meaning of the term “blame” gives it sort of a powerless, nothing-can-be-done-to-change-this attitude, while the meaning of the term “responsibility” gives it an empowered, I-can-change-this, I-can-benefit-from-changing-this attitude, and IMO – this is the difference between continuing to perpetuate things the way they already are, and making some beneficial changes. Which is why I think the disordered people “blame” others for the way things are, because they see no reason to change anything; while we are wanting them to take “responsibility” for their actions, so that in this way they can learn to make some beneficial changes.
And yes, it is still so difficult for me to wrap my mind around the reality that men *are more (way more) harshly treated and “judged” by society.
I believe that in every stage of the evolution of society there are some problems that we allow, as a society, to get bigger and bigger, and then we have a revolution about it, or some movement, and then we turn everything on the other side of the coin: women weren`t allowed to vote, among other things, so we had the feminism movement (or whatever that was) and instead of fixing the existing problems of women, as a society, what we did (and always do in situations like this), is we went all the way to striping men of most of their rights. From one extreme, all the way to the other.
IMO, this happens with everything we once had a problem with. Why can`t we just fix the existing problems, without going overboard, and then needing to have a new revolution because we`ve been letting things get worse too far again?! I haven`t found the answer yet…
I think that people need to learn how to think for themselves more, and not be allowed to do so much emotional reasoning. We all have to look more at the facts, and at the reality, and not so much at the sometimes, maybe most of the times distorted, perceived feelings that so many have come to rely on, because in the end, nothing beneficial for anyone comes from that. I guess I have trouble understanding why it is taking so long for society to realize the problems we have, and fix them in a healthy, reasonable, logical, rational manner.
By giving all these rights to women/mothers, especially since some/most of them don`t know how to use them in a healthy manner and end up abusing them, not only do we abuse men, and not only do we put children in harm`s way, but we also help keep these women in their unhealthy, disordered conditions furthermore. So I see no real benefits (not even short term ones) in continuing to do this.
I think that people need to be educated about this, they need to be constantly reminded of what is healthy, and logical, and beneficial – and what is not. And I think that also children should be taught in schools about relationships, and be given examples of healthy relationships. I believe children are far more understanding and intelligent that we have, so far, as a society, allowed them to be – so IMO, we should educate not only the grown ups, but also the children about what is healthy, what is logical, what is rational, what is reasonable, what is beneficial.
Teach them, and everyone else about critical thinking, and about relying on our minds, and on the reality, while taking into consideration our emotions, and our desires – when making decisions.