This week on the Shrink4Men Forum, members began a thread titled, The Covert Abuse Handbook. In the thread, forum members share their experiences of abuse and the abuse they have witnessed beloved brothers, sons and friends suffer. Abusive personalities typically follow similar patterns of behavior. Men and women who frequent Shrink4Men often remark upon how alike each other’s experiences of female perpetrated abuse are.
Recently, more and more information is becoming available on male victims of abuse. Despite what most feminist domestic violence and gender ideologues claim, men are victims of intimate partner violence at comparable rates to women.
The first “how-to” is written by “S.A.” (the comments in bold and italics are written by me — Dr T — apologies for my editorial liberties, S. A.) and documents the subtle and insidious behaviors he experienced in his relationship with an abusive ex-girlfriend. He is writing in the voice of the female abuser (in case it isn’t obvious).
Building the Perfect Mousetrap!
1. Keep your Mask on at All Times. When you first meet your new victim, tell him what a great guy he is. Tell him you admire his accomplishments. Bring out your fake self-confidence. Show him you are a resposible, rational, hard-working adult woman.
2. Damsels in Distress are Hawt! Once you secure a relationship with your new victim, drag your ex-boyfriend through the mud. Tell the new guy all the horrible things your ex did to you. Don’t forget to tell your new victim that you stayed with your ex for so long because you “will do anything to make a relationship work, even if it meant wearing a frog costume for role play sex.” Use those exact words.
This will activate his rescuer/fixer impulses and make him feel like you “need” him. Be sure to continue telling him how great he is using phrases like “soul mate” and “meant to be.” Love bomb! Love bomb!
3. Sex Bomb! Have sex with him ALL THE TIME. There is no better way to make a guy rationalize away the occasional slip-up or deviation from the plan than very frequent sex. In fact, tell him that you have a high sex drive and 2 times a day, every day, is how much you want it and that your ex-boyfriend couldn’t keep up with you. Also tell him that you’re fully aware that men have sexual needs and you will ALWAYS see that they are fulfilled.
This is probably the most important step in cementing his connection with you, so do it every chance you get. Never forget: SEX IS A TOOL FOR CONTROL. Do NOT enjoy it too much, just pretend to enjoy it. You dont want to get attatched to sex with him because it will be phased out in a later step. You don’t want to jeopardize the most powerful tool of manipulation and control.
4. Rinse, Wash, Repeat and Put Him on a Long Silken Leash. Keep up steps 1, 2 and 3 for 3-4 months — depending on your victim’s level of co-dependency and the degree of dirty of sex you’re willing to have with him. Let him have some freedom to see his friends and pursue his hobbies, but don’t give him too much. If you were succesful in steps 1, 2 and 3, you shouldn’t have too much of a problem because he has probably started to think he loves “you” (or rather the false you) by now and won’t want to leave your side too often.
5. Let the Shit Tests Begin! This is where all your hard work and porn star sex will start to pay off. At this point, your new victim/boyfriend will probably be missing his friends because he hasn’t left your side for 2-3 months. This step has multiple parts:
a) Let him go have some guy time. DO tell him to have fun and that he deserves it. DON’T let him know that this will be a test of how attatched he is and how much shit he will take. This is a crucial test in preparation for the subsequent steps for control and manipulation.
b) While he is out with his friends, casually send him friendly, flirty, sexy texts. Watch for ANYTHING you can exploit, e.g., not returning a text fast enough, anything that could remotely mean that there is other women in his presence, etc. Also watch the clock to see if he gets back at the time he said he would. If he is more than a half hour late it gives you leverage — even if he called to let you know he would be late.
c) Once you “catch” him on something, call him out on it. Exaggerate what he did because it probably wasn’t bad enough to deserve what youre going to throw at him. Put him on the defensive in a way that he feels he must prove himself worthy to you.
d) Get mad at him in a text, on the phone or in person. Tell him you “don’t need this shit again,” (using a very subtle reference to your horrible ex-boyfriend — don’t worry, he’ll catch it). Then threaten to break up with him. Say something like ,”I don’t think I’m ready to be hurt again.” (Never forget that damsels in distress are hawt!)
e) If he agrees that you’re not good together and wants to break up, then you either didn’t use steps 1, 2 and 3 well enough or you need to find a new victim because this one is not codependent enough and is unlikely to play along with your script and shit tests.
f) If he says “No, I’m sorry. I really want to work things out,” congatulations! Now you can berate him for a few minutes until you feel he has apologized enough, and then have sex with him. This is key. You want him to link Compliance with Sex. Don’t worry this will be phased out later as well, leaving only compliance!
6. Escalate Shit Tests and Commence Blame Shifting and Gaslighting (Squee! Squee!) Now is when your hard work really starts to pay off. Repeat step 5 for anything he does that you don’t like. There will probably be quite a few things you don’t like about him because everything you don’t like about yourself will be projected onto him. Just remember the simple formula: Compliance = Sex.
If he doesn’t do what you want, when you want, without question, get mad at him and blame him for making you unhappy and any other problem you can think of. For good measure, bring up past times he made you unhappy (this is also an excellent way to deflect and distract from your behavior because it keeps him playing defense).
Be sure to exaggerate what he did. If he points out that you said or did the same thing to him, tell him it never happened or you never said it. Another technique is saying, “It’s ok because Im a girl” (this is a variation of the old IDWIDI defense – “It’s different when I do it” – employing double standards is an immature, abusive woman’s prerogative!) Don’t worry, his rescuer/fixer impulses will divert all the blame from you to him for now.
7. The Carrot and the Whip. At the 5 month mark, bring up a couple past relationships. Tell him they only lasted 6 months (*it doesn’t have to be true). Pretend to engage in self-reflection and say 6 months is the time that you usually realize you’re not into a guy anymore or that he started to annoy you or make you mad. To intensify the mindf*ck, tell him that 6 months is also when you really learn to trust a guy and love him. This will keep him on his toes and ensure he takes care of your every want and need. It will also scare him into thinking you might leave him and he probably doesn’t want to lose the daily hot sex.
8. Put the Lid on the Cookie Jar Half-Way. After the six-month mark, reduce the sex to 3 times a week and tone it down a little. This is an “acceptable” and “normal” amount of sex for a “healthy” relationship. This will make him feel like the relationship is stabilizing and that this is how it will be for the duration. Continue the occasional rant along with the daily maintenance abuse like minor silent treatments, sarcasm, eye rolling and once every couple days, shrug off his attempts at affection to prepare him for the next phase.
9. Seal the Deal! Your main goal right now should be to move in with him. To ensure he is firmly and willingly under your control, tell him things he can do to make you happy (*they don’t have to be true). If done correctly, it will foster the false belief that as soon as he figures you out and proves his loyalty and devotion, you will be happy and the occasional rants and maintenance abuse will stop.
You want him to think your happiness is completely within his power to achieve and the reason you get mad sometimes is because of something he did. Tell him that moving in with him would make you feel happy and secure while simultaneously claiming you’re nervous and apprehensive because you’ve been left homeless in the past, thereby reminding him of your ex-boyfriends and giving his fixer/rescuer impulses man tingles.
This step should get you the key to his place within the next few months or weeks depending on your closing skills. If he starts to come to his senses too quickly after you move in, crank the FOG machine (fear – obligation – guilt) and say things like, “I knew this was gonna happen, I always get screwed over” and “I should never have moved in with you” and “Why didnt you tell me this before I moved in?”
10. Pee on his Territory. Once move in day arrives, assert your dominance and make him feel like a guest in his own home. If anything needs to be gotten rid of due to lack of space like furniture, appliances, bedding, etc., make sure he gets rid of HIS things. Tell him that there’s just not enough room for both your furniture and that your items are nicer. If he says he doesn’t want to get rid of something, throw a tantrum and tell him he isn’t committed to the relationship because he wants to keep HIS things and make you get rid of yours (i.e., play the victim).
Making him get rid of HIS things serves 2 purposes:
- If he is using your furniture, appliances, etc., you can guilt and berate him for not using them “properly,” breaking them, eating on the couch, etc., which gives you more control over him. Remember, everything he does is potential fodder for your grievance/hoop jumping list.
- If at some point he wants to escape you, he will have none of his own furniture, appliances, etc., which will make his escape more difficult.
11. Isolate, Isolate, Isolate! Cut off his support system. Now that you’re moved in, it’s time to prepare for the next phase. If your victim tries to see his friends or family, repeat step 6. You don’t want him mentioning your behavior to his friends and family and have him find out that it’s abuse. When he makes plans with his friends either get mad at him, use the silent treatment or guilt him by saying he cares about his friends more than you and wants to spend more time with them than with you. Alternatively, you could let him leave the house and then berate him using texts or phone calls while he is with his friends.
Using this tactic a few times will cause him to equate seeing his friends to doing something wrong and hurting you, which causes stress and anxiety for him. If he does see his friends, make sure you berate and guilt him the next day as well. Accuse him of hitting on women or going to the strip club behind your back. When he reminds you that he promised you he wouldn’t go to the strip club, deny that he ever made that promise.
If these tactics don’t work, turn him against his friends by telling him they treated you badly or said something about him behind his back (*this doesn’t have to be true). This will ensure that he only tries to see his friends once a month at most and when that happens just use standard maintenance abuse.
12. Crank the Dial on the FOG Machine. Once you’re moved in and your previous apartment or house is sold or no longer available, ramp up the FOG. Now that you have him under control and it is exponentially harder for him to break up with you or leave you since you live in his house, you can basically do anything you want. Par-tay!
Quit your job and either find a lazy part-time job or just don’t work at all. Don’t do any house work. The house might get cluttered, but he will eventually clean it for you. All you need to do is tell him you are going to clean it and he will believe you.
If he hasn’t said he loves you yet, use step 6 until he does. Once he does, tell him you love him every day, and drop him a few compliments here and there like, “You’re so handsome” and “You’re such a good boyfriend” (yes, even if you don’t mean it!)
13. Put the Cookie Jar Away and Only Break Out in Case of Emergency. At long last, it’s time to cut off the sex. Only have sex when you feel like it. (1-2 times per month) or if he starts making noises about breaking up (i.e., Hoover). If he asks you or tries to initiate sex, shut him down, sarcastcally if need be. Your victim needs to learn that you only have sex when YOU want to have sex. Remember, he is only there to fulfill YOUR needs. His needs are unimportant.
14. CONTROL. Tell your victim you love him and give him compliments on a regular basis. This keeps him off balance and he will attempt to rationalize your manipulation and control because you have him believing what you say instead of what you do.
After a couple months of little to no sex, he will try really hard to initiate. This is what you want. Shut down all of his advances. If he tries to touch you in a sexual way, kiss you or compliment you in a sexual way, etc., shrug him off and sarcastically call him a name like pervert or dick.
Meanwhile, make him believe you want to have sex 1-2 times per week. Touch him and tell him to touch you in a sexual way (fully clothed) and tell him things like; “I can’t wait till later when we can have sex” and “I’m gonna give you a workout later. I cant wait.” Later, when he thinks you will be having sex, make an excuse like you have a migraine, cramps, your IUD is bothering you (*this doesn’t have to be true) or, better yet, fall asleep on the couch at 7:30 before he has a chance to make any advances.
After doing this a few times he will get frustrated and possibly irritated that you keep arousing him without following through. Use this against him by telling him all he wants you for is sex (i.e., play the victim and pathologize his healthy sex drive). When you do actually want sex, if he says no for whatever reason (e.g., sickness, work) sarcastically tell him, “Remember this the next time YOU want to have sex.” He needs to remember that you get what you want when you want or there is hell to pay.
Eventually he will ask why you don’t want to have sex anymore. Make up an excuse such as, “I’m just in that cuddly phase of the relationship” or “We had sex so much at first, I think we wore it out” or the best one, “Because you aren’t trying hard enough.”
Periodically, stop all abuse for 2-3 days and, if you feel like it, have sex with him once during this time. This gets him to let his guard down and forget about the abuse from just a few days ago. It also keeps him longing for “the way it used to be.” This serves to blindside him again and drive him even deeper into the FOG.
When you’re in bed, don’t let him touch you in a sexual way. In fact, if he tries to put his hand on your waist or hip, and get close you you, casually brush it off and scoot away from him, but make sure you are still in the middle of the bed and he is shoved up against the wall. This demoralizes him and makes him feel unatractive and unwanted. If his own girlfriend doesn’t want to have sex with him and treats him like he is disgusting, he will NEVER have the self-esteem and self-confidence to leave you for another woman. Even though you know that, you should still accuse him of looking at and flirting with other women.
15. Instill a Sense of Learned Helplessness. If your victim starts to catch on to your manipulation or wants to discuss your behavior, shut him down mid-sentence and say something like “Relationships are work, if you don’t think I’m worth it just tell me” and end the conversation. Do this every time he tries to criticize you.
Effectively, this will train him not to question your behavior and, as an added bonus, you can later tell him he doesn’t communicate well because he holds all of his feelings inside. In case of emergency, threaten to break up with him. This works in all but the most extreme cases especially if he has fears of failure or abandonment.
16. HOOVER! Because You Suck. If all else fails and you think he is going to leave, act arrogant and tell him you will be fine without him. If he actually says the words, “I want to break up” or something similar, start sobbing IMMEDIATELY. Use every tactic described above. If crying doesn’t work, call him names like “immature little boy” and bring up hurtful things from his past. For example, “You deserve a woman like your ex-wife who will sleep around and cheat on you.”
Alternate between sobbing, name-calling and belittling him. If that doesn’t work and he leaves, text him the next day. Try to sound as self-aware and remorseful as possible, but don’t actually take any blame for anything. If you do you will lose control. If need be, peruse some pop-psychology self-help books and use phrases like “change and grow” or “open the lines of communication” and “find a way back to each other.”
If this works and he comes back, repeat step 3 for a few days to 2 weeks until he is comfortable again, and then you can resume the abuse.
If not, then ask if you can still be friends and use the word “closure” a lot. That way if you need a drama fix, you have him on speed dial.
If he will not answer your calls or return your texts, take heart in the fact that the damage you caused will take months or even YEARS to fix, and that when he does meet a nice sincere woman, it will take a long time for her to convince him she is sincere and earn his trust.
How many of you have experienced something similar in your relationships? Did you abusive partner or ex use a different approach? Please post it here.
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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Wow! I lived that and could have written it myself ……. only thing missing would be the exes kept on the shelf for her ego stroking and then blaming the victim for her texting/communicating with them.
“If he will not answer your calls or return your texts, take heart in the fact that the damage you caused will take months or even YEARS to fix, and that when he does meet a nice sincere woman, it will take a long time for her to convince him she is sincere and earn his trust.” …… yuck, but true.
Ah yes, the ex-boyfriend/ex-husband benchwarmers. I have always found that one to be especially cruel, selfish and greedy .
I have maintained NC for 19 months now and she immediately ran back to an exbf that she stayed in contact with while we were engaged. He cheated on her while they were originally together. She stills tries to contact me while she is with him! Now I wont’t be Hoovered, triangulated, suckered back in……if I were to fail I wouldn’t be a victim, but a volunteer. Paint these women in the color of pain!
Dr T,
It’s so realistic I almost had to stop reading. For the same reason I no longer wait in line to get on the “Tilt W Whirl” ride. When the carnival comes to town. Is just too nauseating.
Hey I wished that I had met you (Dr T) back in 2007. This was when “the bitch from hell” moved in to my apartment. She was just a roommate at first but she did exactly EVERYTHING you mentioned: moved all my shit where she wanted it. Then the sex kicked in and coincided with her notion that she could live rent free which was never my intent at all.
I met her with the intent of getting a roommate and she seemed to be in a terrible state at the time, “near homeless” but this was just her ruse. The “damsel in distress” and I fell for it..
In the interest of time I won’t mention the continuing horror that went on for over eleven months before I finally escaped. Oddly enough I handled that difficult situation pretty well. I considered the woman DANGEROUS, and even more so if I let her know I was leaving and the “meal ticket” would soon be gone. So I never told her I was leaving. I treated her like she was a dangerous felon. She didn’t have the capability to hurt me. Not once I gained possession of the handgun she “borrowed”. She did however threaten me on NUMEROUS OCCASIONS with potential false allegations of D/V. No kidding! Thus “the gun was still in the room”. She would cheerfully have called the cops sand lied her ass off. Saying “He keeps threatening me” which was all bullshit. I treated her like a princess.
I encourage you to emphasize (to your clients and men reading) just how dangerous these BPD types can get when their man gives them their walking papers. In the case of my own parasite? She had removed my own handgun from the drawer where it belonged. The only way I got it back was by tricking her into thinking that there was a prowler in the backyard.
Imagine that: A firearm in the hands of a personality disordered nut job. Shades or Catherin Kieu Becker or Jodie Arias.
Wow one night I went through the ordeal of showing my CB my cell phone bill where she asked me about every number. She found some calls with my ex wife, the one I have 4 kids with and I explained we talked every once in awhile about the kids. After she raked me over the coals I said we’ll let me see yours. I saw multiple calls to her ex husband, the one she left and had no kids with. I even found one an hour long. Her response was “That’s because you wouldn’t talk to me”
So, so true!!
She even turned the neighbours against me and keeps on coming back to visit them monthly to keep up the pretence that I’ve abused her – trouble is I still don’t know what she’s said to them. (Like many of us – I’m just a placid, nice guy who got sucked in) – The ‘hoovering’ only worked once on me for a short time after we broke up and a year after the divorce now I still analyse the women I date – probably too much – how sure can you be that It won’t happen again?).
It was the Isolation from my friends which got me! I even told her friends about her actions – not realising that she ‘controlled’ them as well!!
Hi detective999,
Have you considered finding a new neighborhood and not leaving a forwarding address? Have you thought about asking your neighbors?
I’ll start with the ‘it’s a long story…..’ (Ditto ‘Mousetrap above’ 1-16) – however I’m strong enough now not to worry about the neighbours, especially knowing that I live next to a vicarage and the priest (who does have sociopathic tendancies) was taken in by her and defended her and I love to watch him ‘scurry’ into his house when he pulls on the drive so to avoid contact with me – I find it amusing, especially when I have done nothing to her or him!! (I was just an ‘object’ in the end and I remember her stating that she’d ‘lost her house’, lost her man’, ‘lost her job’ (yes, she even used to work for me!) INSTEAD of ‘lost her home’, ‘husband’, & ‘career’!!)
My current mortgage on my property runs out in 2014 and then I’ll be looking to move then.
I have to laugh, knowing that any dates who come back to my house will certainly be ‘reported’ back to her by her ‘neighbourhood watch’. Luckily I didn’t have any children with her (even though she was desparate for one) – and when we finalised the monies for the divorce – she asked for a ‘silly’ sum of money through her lawyers and I accepted it straight away – so they couldn’t come back on it! – I just wanted to get rid of her out of my life – it was the easiest decision I could have made!
They say ‘time heals’ and it’s true! ‘No Contact’ is the key every time and when she passes me in the car – I look the other way!!
I’ve got my life back; my family and friends too!!
Its really bad when she tells the neighbors and parents of your kids school mates all the lies she tells to turn them against you. You go to a school function and you are looked at by all the parents like you are some child rapist. They dont dare get to hear of the mental abuse you suffered but the goal is to drive you away from functions so she can have the kids all to herself and seem like this victim who is working hard to save her kids after she got away from the bad man, you.
The best response once you decide to leave is do not talk to her do not contact her and maintain that until the day you die. Hopefully your kids will learn the truth when they get older.
Great article, mine wasn’t that bad, but im still searching for answers, where do I go? I am certainly smart enough to get it, but I cant figure out why I don’t, any ideas??????? thx
What answers are you looking for, mustbedumb? If you haven’t checked out the S4M index, I recommend you begin there.
Thank you for registering and welcome to Shrink4Men.
HI Dr. T and thx for having me, its a breath of fresh air even though it sometimes feels like an elephant stepping on your chest. Im trying to find out what my ex gf was? I understand I need to move on but im somewhat damaged at this point, I get my share of chances but im not interested, is there a place here I ask my questions? any help would be greatly appreciated, thx mbd
It’s like voodoo. It only works if you buy into it.
Sadly, all it takes to buy into it is a trusting nature and a shred of self-doubt.
Excellent point, Mell.
Amazing. You just described my relationship with my exwife. It got so bad at the end that she would make advances and I would have to tell her no. About three weeks after I move out, the first guy (in this case our handyman) who she comes in contact with she starts dating. Two years later and they are still together and Im betting they will marry. It was painful in the beginning but Im doing my best to stay optimistic.
Sounds like the ex needs “fixing,” tcalajr, but it’s probably not in the realm of general contract work.
I’m glad to read you’re out. I pity the handyman. He’ll be lucky to get out of there with his tool belt.
Thank you for registering and welcome to S4M.
Good grief! There’s a part 2? My heart rate was rising, and I was sweating just reading that. Much of it is very familiar. Especially the foul tasting cocktail of sobbing, name calling, and belittling.
I’m sorry it affected you that way, heisenberg. Yes, there’s a Part Two and possibly a Part Three. Lots of flavors of Crazy. This is just one variation and one of the more “benign” on the thread right now, if you can believe it.
Welcome to S4M,
Dr T
I was probably exaggerating …. Thankfully, I don’t think I’m in PTSD territory. I’ve actually been registered here for quite a while, but thank you for the welcome anyway. We’ve even exchanged emails. I’m a regular visitor and commenter, over at AVFM under the same screen name. You and Paul Elam are awesomeness personified. I wish you had the time, staff and support to update the content here as regularly as AVFM. Breath of fresh air, you are Dt. T!
Oh my gosh, I’m sorry, heisenberg. Of course, I recognize the username now. Sometimes it’s difficult keeping track.
Thank you for the very kind compliment. I appreciate it. I wish I had more resources, too. It’s a juggling act for sure. I am incredibly grateful to my forum mods, Mell, kiwihelen and LiliM. And for everyone who contributes and participates in the comments. The S4M community helps lots of people by sharing their experiences.
benefit of the doubt: a favorable opinion or judgment adopted despite uncertainty.
Many men were raised to reflect this sentiment. I was told to be patient as in
“patience is a virtue” and “don’t be hasty to judge” and all the other tripe. These sayings are all behavior modifiers to get us to stop trusting our instincts and to stay away from crazy when we see it or suspect it.
While it is hard to pigeonhole every abuser into a set of facts, this post does a great job of laying foundations that show that if even if some of these examples dont apply, we man can be tied to women who are in fact much worse.
My sociopath ex used many of these tricks but had the skills to take it further and has ruined me financially. You meet her after she comes out of a bad relationship and as it turns out lied about being abused. You move her into your home where she destroys your personal stuff after making you replace stuff that does not meet her living standards. Its funny she had standards when she went from living in a rathole to your nice home.
Once shes in your home, she asserts control. Men are then in a tough spot if we want a family so we have a couple of kids. Mine got to be a stay at home wife with 2 kids while I built a business and made lots of money. Most women would love to be at home with kids living a comfortable lifestyle. Once she has your kids, all attention stops(not that you got much before you had kids). No conversation, no sex and she just drives around to play dates while she keeps the house dirty and continues destroy anything that is persoanl to you all while making you feel she is at fault.
As the kids get older, she isolates them from you by refusing to do anything as a family. She acts like a country club wife yet surrounds herself with men hating divorcees that are way older then her and her friends with kids are all downtrodden often facing economic and personal problems so she can seem to others like she has it together. Once the kids are in school she refuses to return to work and just runs up credit card debt every month. She becomes a leech and you are just a wallet. You pay for her to go to night classes so she can improve her education while you give up what little free time you have to watch the kids. After she gets her education, she refuses to work saying her job is to take care of children. She leaves her sexy lingerie around the house but refuses sex and sits up all night writing and talking on the computer. Turns out she is into writing porn stories using her kids names and cousins names as characters. She wants you to leave the house but wont tell you because she wants to appear the victim. You know you need to leave but you have young kids so you either stick around while the alimony clock continues to tick. It is also frustrating to stare at your outwardly drop dead gorgeous wife who acts like a snob, dresses sexy, but refuses sex with you despite your still being in shape and good looking yourself not to mention an overall quality man.
At some point you literally have to walk out on your family or face emotional death as even the strongest person cannot take such abuse and watch everything they have built be destroyed. Once you walk out, do not ever talk to her and you will end up in court just to see your kids as she will tell everyone she knows that you abandoned the family despite her being the perfect wife. She refuses to let you see your kids other then the occasional weekend despite you begging to see them and not going ballistic because she uses them as pawns. The court will eventually give you some custody but not the 50/50 you want and then whatever wealth you have will all be taken from you in the divorce and she somehow gets to avoid having to work while your business struggles under the economy.
This is just the tip of the iceberg of what these women do to good men who refuse to bow down to their behavior. As long as you do what she wants on her terms, you can stay in a fake relationship but if you start to question the behavior, she amps up the destruction. Once you realize what you are tied to, all thosre fake hugs, kisses, and compliments that were as fake as they sounded are suddenly part of an eye opening evaluation into what you have been living with for 10 years. She was simply a cancer that latched on to you and destroyed you and even the beautiful kids you have produced no longer have a family and are destroyed emotionally before they ever have a chance to see how bad this world is.
If you are in one of these relationships, kids or not, get out and get out now. I am glad that I finally had the courage to walk away after years of abuse disguised as the perfect housewife behavior. It is so much easier to rebuild when you still have caring and supportive family that is alive and I can only imagine my hell being worse if I had hung on for 10 more years, had alimony then due for the rest of my life basically and aging parents who simply could not help.
These women are masters of their craft and there is so much more that could be added to this article about their behavior that traps and destroys you but the foundation laid by the Dr. is so vital to showing us that these women do exist and we are not alone and have in fact done nothing wrong other then choose our partners poorly for whatever reason. A mans desire for kids as he approaches 40 often makes us do dumb things and I like many others am paying for it. Best of luck to all and thanks so much for this great site.
Dam. Are you sure you’re not my alter-ego or something? It’s like I’m hearing my own life story of the last 20 years being told to me. My ex has now taken it upon herself at the age of 40 to go back to school and do a fancy medicine degree: a life long ambition which she realised oh, about 6 months ago. She can’t use her degree in teaching (which I funded) or any of the other certificates etc (which I funded) to get a job, oh no! She is FAR to special for that and anyway, the kids (who are all in school or university) NEED a “stay at home mum” (who did nothing else: no cleaning, only cooking pre-made meals, etc).
We had an argument which ended with me hitting her and being removed from my home and then blackmailed into paying her rent for the next year as well as £1000 for other expenses. Hitting her was a low point in my life and I feel terrible about it, but she has used it as some sort of trump-card and wave it in my face at every opportunity. To put this into perspective, she has attacked me several times and I never even thought of going to the police. Two years ago I ended up in hospital with an infection in my elbow join with a very suspicious hole in my skin. She has hit me when I sleep and left me with bruises and after the 4 day hospital stay, I was scared to eat at home as I was afraid of being poisoned. She is now “too emotionally damaged” to work, but can be a stay at home mum (“the hardest job in the world” lol) or go an study full time (I thought the kids needed a full time mom… I’m confused here).
I made the mistake of talking to her on Monday as she is moving 5 hours away to study with the kids, making visiting them on weekends basically impossible. What a mistake that was: I just got an hour of abuse and being told I was a terrible person and had done terrible things to her. WTF? Over the last 18 months all I have done is throw money at her to maintain her lifestyle until I lost my job in December (I was suffering major depression by that time and could not really function). I was so upset after seeing this woman, who outwardly is all I ever wanted in a woman, but is seemingly incapable of introspection and who projects all her bad behaviour onto me.
Reading the letters from her lawyers is like a trip to the twilight zone:
I left her “penniless and destitute” (huh? I paid her rent and gave her £1000 a month for expenses).
I bought my car with her money ? Paid for on a car loan in my name. Thank god for banks and bank records!
I “went as far as going into the home and taking the children’s beds” and they are “reduced to sleeping on the floor”. WTF?
She has suffered “years of ongoing domestic violence”. ? One incident. She hasn’t lived with me for 18 months. How the hell can it be ongoing?
She “fears me and fears for the children’s safety”. Right. So that’s why she tried to move into my house last August. Good grief. How can I have anything but contempt for a court that puts up with these kind of blatant lies? Judges seem to be inbred-retards with a hope to hook up with nut-job women by treating them as if they were somehow angelic. My ex is of the opinion that she is Jesus (with boobs) come again.
The thing that really pisses me off, is that despite all her lies and obvious bullshit, she gets legal aid while I have to fork out thousands of pounds for legal representation. Everything I love and care about has been taken away on the strength that I hit her. Once after 18 years of being told “you’re not good enough”, “You’re not a real man”, “you’re not a modern man”, “You should be more like , he’s so “, “nobody would ever want you”, “you are nothing”… blah blah blah. I love my children and have given and given and given for their sake until there is literally nothing left to give. The well is empty and now she suddenly feels the need to move my children 5 hours away.
Dam. That was good to get off my chest.
Oh, one other thing that needs to be clarified: I hit her after she had already called the police and told them I had. I just lost it when she smiled at me slyly and said “lets see how your immigration application goes now”.
daddyof4, I wanted to welcome you here. I started my divorce as a Yank in the UK, but finished it in the states. Your story could be so very familiar. I hope you learn much and grow strong here.
this is my life now. in court with SAM who used to be an attorney an has a medium powered ace in that she got me on the ropes cause she had me arrested for spanking our child. now it’s “see see he’s an abuser” nevermind i got yelled at for a week straight about how i wasn’t doing enough and how she couldn’t handle the kids especially the one i spanked(there are 4 of them all young). Then i do something and she flipped it. I’m going broke with psyche evals gas and supervised visitations. All of what I though were mutual friends but they were realy her friends havae turned on me and the judge (though i have hope) has seemed moderately cool. I’ll keep y’all updated. no father’s day call either BTW.
Guys, I’m also in your situation. I won’t go into details because it’s just too depressingly familiar by now. But I recommend the books “The Verbally Abusive Relationship” and “Controlling People” by Patricia Evans. Good work to Dr. Tara for also getting the message out there, in a way that emphasises that women can also be abusers (the resources I mentioned are more focused on male abusers but if you can overlook the sexist way they’re written, then the information is very valuable).
wonderful site, very theraputic as I work through and have begun to realize the many many years of abuse. these tricks and scenarios ore scarily familiar. Dr. T you are a saint to put up with all this and to GET THE EFFING WORD OUT about these disorders. All the more reason to keep my daughters away from scwanarios where they can be abused/traumatized and develop this disorder.
Hi dpms,
Welcome to S4M. I am most definitely not a saint. Just someone who’s sick and tired of the unchecked devastation of these types. Women are told repeatedly, encouraged and empowered to stay away from bad, abusive men. We should educate men to do the same with bad, abusive women — no matter how much some of these women claim they “hurt” or are “victims.” More like self-pitying sociopaths.
as funny, poignant and ironic as these things can read to us, the worst part is they don’t follow a playbook, it’s not intentional – the BPD is hard wired to do them. They see this as real and just how it is. It’s not a conscious decision to torment, it’s how they live. I think I was able to peak through the FOG when she started creating the same double-binds and use the same complaints about me, as she first used about her ex. Like the same script to the play re-read years later!
You’re right freetexas there are funny and anecdotal stories we all have. I try to use humor frequently, as coping mechanism. But its also quite sad, and tragic, especially when kids are involved, or people’s finances and/or reputation are ruined by these female sociopaths. Or the victim ends up dead as in the Jodi Arias situation.
I believe these folks are conscious of what they are doing. Sociopaths know what they do is wrong, yet they still do it anyway. They are very aware of their actions & consequences. They simply don’t care – complete lack of empathy. These people know what they do and take pleasure in hurting others, as most sociopaths/borderlines/narcissists do enjoy seeing others suffer to make them feel superior or better about themselves.
Yeah, it’s all about power and control and believe me, they will go to any means to get it, including threatening harm to their own kids. My nut-job ex decided she liked the bed I bought the kids better so threw hers out and told her lawyer that I had come to the house and removed the beds. When I saw her I asked what she had done with the beds and she said “they were old and nasty so I threw them out” I asked her “so why did you tell your lawyer that I took them?” and she went ballistic in front of my poor kids who hadn’t been allowed to see me for 3 months and said “That’s it! I’m taking the children home! Is that what you want? Hey? Hmm?” Really a condescending witch/harpy who then went on to tell me if I want to see the kids I’d better “behave” as if I was some little child.
Well, I love my kids, but now this evil cow is moving 5 hours away and I am going to see very little of them. I refuse to let her use my children as pawns in her little game and this has made her very angry. She said “you should have tried harder to see the kids in the last 3 months”. Note: this is after she threatened to call the police when I came to pick them up, claimed to be afraid for her life, and sent a letter to my solicitor saying if I try to see the kids she’d have me arrested. WTF? “you should fight for these children!” Nuts. Mad as a box of frogs. She threatens me if I try to see them then tells me I’m bad if I don’t. hahaha. Why do we bother?
Thats right daddyof4…power & control are central themes w/ the sociopaths. They relish demeaning & humiliating their victims. Hitler, Ted Bundy, Jeffrey Daumer, Stalin – or your local Jodi Arias. They all enjoyed torturing their victims emotionally & physically…and being in control, being the center of attention.
My ex-Hitler also uses the kids as a weapon against me. Throwing temper tantrums in from of the children, preventing visitation/communication, manipulating the kids, and so on. Really an epidemic here in the U.S. with this stuff. Yet the mental health ‘experts’ and gov’t scratches their heads wondering why there is an entire generation of kids growing up without a father, having psychological problems, and so on.
yup that. pretty much my experience. arrest threats…coupled with “you abandoned the kids”
A lot of these ring true in my relationship but with some differences. My girlfriend is a very good person and has a lot of health issues. I dont know if it is ptsd or borderline, but her health gets used as an excuse for her to feel insecure and then punish me. she punishes me with guilt, withdrawal and accusations that i put my friends first and Im selfish. There is an ultimatem that if I look and think of other “chics” then she doesnt want to be with me. I lied my way out of that one…any normal human has fantasies. Ive posted here before but Dr. T this article is amazing. I get so confused because she has done the whole ex thing but says she goes back to him just to hang out during our past breakups because she has no other friends. BS!!! I am tempted to ask him if she hooked up with him but I dont want to be psycho. Would that be?
We have amazing times together in isolation but anytime I do something that could “trigger” her ptsd she plays games and makes me work hard to prove my love. My therapists encourage me to be more authentic because I got into the habit of hiding certain things (like hanging out with friends or grabbing a drink with my brother at a bar) in order to avoid fights and drama. The last two times, both within the last week and a half I was honest with her that I went out with some friends. I tell her I will honor and respect her. Still, she withdraws. It feels like bullshit…that she doesnt want me to have fun unless Im with someone safe like my dad or with her. My friends are a threat. My brother has been a threat. She says she is not the one going out and I start to feel guilty that she is more committed to me than I am her. I also feel guilty that I actually have the desire to be out at night. She will say that I fall asleep early at her place but I stay out late with my friends. It has truth to it and again I feel guilty. maybe it has something to do with her draining my energy or her warm bed.
The sex is never really withheld, but it has been used as a hoover. Love bombs, guilt trips, rages…yup. Im a co-dependent. What is the cost of saving the damsel? A lot, but the trips with her and the feeling I get from being the white knight is the drug.
Thanks for listening. I hope someone else can resonate with this. And every realationship I have is strained. Its ok, I have my excuses that “oh the next time she acts up Ill leave”. Im full of shit, it is just an excuse to stay on the drug.
Toughmat, you’re not full of shit, dumb or whatever. You’re basically in denial of your partner’s behavior, and you are basically enabling it by staying in the relationship, not setting boundaries. I did the exact same thing for years too, and it got me nowhere…nothing but more abuse, mistreatment, and being taken advantage of. Your therapist sounds like he/she is in denial too. Abuse is abuse is abuse, and its not to be tolerated. Period.
My advice is to plan an exit strategy. GTFO (Get The Fuck Out). Best thing I ever did. Keep coming back & reading the stories here. It will help.
I second what cuatezon says. GTFO. Because you don’t deserve that kind of crazy making in your life. There are good girls in this world that won’t attempt to put you on the proverbial leash. I bet your story reads about the same as mine. You gave it your all. She made some crazy uncomfortable demands and used her ex to keep you trying harder and harder. Guess what? She is a succubus demon spawn that is attempting to take your souls energy! Run like a bull bro!
I agree, I’ll just add one more thing, setting boundaries is not: you’re hurting me, stop it. It should be: if you don’t stop it I’ll leave/divorce/call the cops etc (if she’s BPD then only this might work). If she doesn’t stop even after you stated consequences, then really, but REALLY, GTFO.
set a boundary like i did…you’re basically saying to them that you are asking to get hurt in some way
https://i.chzbgr.com/maxW500/7515160064/h7D3C88C8/
I wish I could post the image in here, but I can’t, so that’s the link to it.
It says: If you have to tell yourself she’s not that bad, she’s that bad.
The other guys are right. End the denial and save your life.
The health problems may not really exist. They may simply be a ploy to make you feel sorry for her, so she can control you. My ex believed she had Lupus. She would have a “Lupus flair” anytime she wasn’t getting her way, so she could guilt me into giving in. My ex was having a “Lupus flair” one night during a snow storm until one of her male friends called asking her to help out with his teenage daughter who was home alone in the same neighborhood (he was stuck at his job 50 miles away). Suddenly the “Lupus flair” was gone, and was magically gone for the rest of the evening. Her “Lupus”,”Fibromyalgia”, and “RA” were simply excuses to take drugs and be abusive.
I met a woman about 6 months after my divorce. She almost immediately told me she wanted to get me into bed. I was really attracted to her and thought she was the one, so I told her I thought we should get to know each other better. I expected her to be happy about that, but she continued to temp me making sexual comments, basically an open invitation. I was older than her by 10 years and I finally thought maybe this is how it goes and I’m being old fashion. At some point she accused me of being gay, what better way to attack my manhood and get me into bed. Finally about 3 months later we went to bed and the sex was very good and wild and I thought this was it, although we had been having problems really from the beginning. After that it was game on and the berating, guilt, isolation, screaming anger fits started. I guess I was a good catch because when I finally had enough and told her it was over she was right back with the poor pitiful me act, I was her soul mate, she thought I was the one, etc. I think at some point she realized the game was over and I was drifting away, each fight sent me a little farther. One day she finally blasted me with a screaming fit and I really think it was planned that way, her exit plan. I’ve had no contact for 6 months and I always think I could have tried harder and I really am starting to forget the fights and why I wanted out. Articles like this remind me of all of the things she would do.
Tanker I know what you mean. I went on 3 dates with an older woman a few years back. When I didn’t try to bed her after the 3rd date, she said she was wondering if I was gay. She also texted me a picture of another guy’s penis; some guy that was trying to bed her. This was a woman in her late 40s at the time. Now if that’s not weird, I don’t know what is. I ran away and never looked back.
I identify with much of this article. Although in my experiences here in Socal, the shit tests have come fairly quickly into the relationship even in the first few days, references to ex boyfriends, shit tests, testing your mettle/resolve and self esteem in general. Thats what they do; they are doing an emotional review/interview of you, seeking to find your strengths & weaknesses, exploit the weaknesses to manipulate you and gain control.
These little female Hitlers want to control your life and make you suffer. They get a high off of it. Maybe time to write a survival handbook or something for guys out there with our stories and profiles of these kinds of women.
yes. that.
I used to hear these words, verbatim, every time I failed a Shit Test:
“You don’t like it here? Then LEAVE! Go ahead and live in a $300 per month basement HOVEL, because that is all you’ll be able to afford, because I will take EVERYTHING from you!”
She failed at this, but ONLY because my father had the remarkable timing to die and leave an inheritance after the end of the marriage — no, sorry, wrong word, I meant INCARCERATION.
Keep up the good work Dr. T!
Is it okay if I do a dramatic reading of this for my YouTube Social Justice channel?
I am so devastated because I see my son who’s in his late 20s going through this very thing and I can’t help him you see, because I was one of the casualties. I made the mistake of gently pointing out to my son that his girlfriend’s behaviour was controlling and now of course, he wants nothing to do with me. I want to save him from himself and her but he has tied my hands behind my back. I feel like I am watching a two year old run into traffic and can’t do a thing about it. My son and I had a wonderful relationship before this girl came around. His personality has changed completely. I’ve seen him twice in the last 2 years and he appears depressed, irritable, detached, among other things and doesn’t seem to realize it. Although he spent the first 4 years of the relationship wanting to get out, the last 2 years he has been talking about how she is “the one”. I still want to help him though he won’t accept calls. The first time we spoke in 1½ years he mentioned a bunch of symptoms he had and after some internet research all point to anxiety stress depression. I recently, sent him an e-mail with a couple of links about it but I’m afraid he most likely hit the delete button without reading it. I wrote him I will always love him and left it at that. I wish I could help, but I’m starting to think he just has to learn the hard way, if at all. I feel that if I attempt to shed some light on his situation, he would probably just gravitate more towards her. I feel so guilty and helpless, thinking that I should help him but not knowing how.
Devastated – these sociopaths do hold us hostage, they specialize in isolating their victims from their support, family, friends. Predators know an isolated prey is easy prey. You’re suffering from a form of Stockholm Syndrome. I can relate to what you’re experiencing. Its the worst thing in the world. My ex-Hitler is doing a Munchausen-by-proxy deal on my daughter, and I feel bad about not being able to get in and help. She’s messed our daughter up so bad emotionally, physically, and on about 20 different medications, and alienated her from me.
So I empathize and completely understand your feelings of guilt. What you need to remember is we are not responsible for others behavior. No matter how good, bad, strong, weak, smart or foolish, perfect or imperfect, the sociopath will do what she will do. Have you talked to anyone else about whats going on? Get some support or counseling? It can be helpful.
Devastated; there’s still hope … especially if your son is like me. I’m in a similar position as your son, and my parents probably feel a lot like you do right now. But, what they see from me is acting. I can’t allow them to see any hint of what I’m really thinking; my wife would pick up on it. I’m having enough trouble planning and implementing my exit plan. I can’t afford to tip my hand. I know it’s tough on those who love me, but I have hope that they will forgive me when I get through this.
One last thought. There’s a very good chance that your son’s girlfriend reads his email. Be very careful what you send him. In my case, the only time my wife is OK that I receive a message from my parents is when they talk about how much they like and miss her … and even that doesn’t always work.
Saw my psychiatrist today and after meeting with my wife and me several weeks ago, I asked her for her assessment. She told me my wife was extremely needy and extremely insecure, emotionally a child living in the body of a woman, self centered, incapable of providing the emotional support that I need. But she tells me that I should forget my wife’s childish rants and unempathetic behaviors and be more understanding. I shot back that I’ve been on the receiving end of emotional abuse for all the years we’ve been together and I’m worn out, burned out and have given her endless support, love and understanding, all to no avail. And this doctor is considered to be one of the top docs in my area. When I brought up the possibility of BPD, she side stepped the issue. Ultimately, I’m the shmuck whose stayed for all these years. Sex has disappeared and I don’t even want to touch my wife. I need to get my manhood out of storage and reattach them. What’s worse, my wife tells me she’s never been happier with her life. Is that because I’m suffering or just her way of jerking my chain?
Really tired of hearing about “top therapists” encouraging their male patients to remain in abusive relationships and to be “more understanding” of their abusers. Did you ask her if she tells abused female patients the same thing?
Shame on her. I hope you’re not continuing to work with her.
Dr. T, I will ask her that question. At our first session, I asked her if she focused on women’s issues, since I had experience with a psychiatrist who did and she sided with my wife, who was sobbing and telling that doctor how much she loved me and wanted to help me. My new doctor said she doesn’t take sides and evaluates cases in an unbiased manner. She also keeps insisting that my wife and I need marriage counseling but I know my wife would blunt, dismiss or deflect observations about her behaviors. She’s had years to build a good defense system.
Running on Empty – I tried counseling w/ my ex-Hitler too. The counselor, a woman, actually recognized my ex-Hitler had a mental illness of some sorts and wanted her to see a psychiatrist, but my ex-Hitler refused, and, her behavior became worse and unbearable. That counselor abandoned us shortly thereafter and wouldn’t respond to my calls/emails/letters for help and trying to make another appt with her.
Best therapy I ever did was the GTFO technique. Its easy, there are no books, no fees, it is a bit painful in the beginning but quite liberating after awhile. GTFO (Get The Fuck Out).
Cuatezon – What I’m about to say isn’t lame but it sounds lame. I have multiple medical problems, aside from depression; chronic fatigue syndrome, andropause, sleep problems and haven’t been able to work for a few years. Some money in the bank but it would disappear in a flash once I’m out the door. I want alimony because SHE has money up the ying yang BUT, I signed a pre-nup, lo those many years ago. I know a good lawyer could have it modified or tossed out but good lawyers cost money, though I am trying to find someone who’ll do it pro bono. It would be so much easier to GTFO. Going to see a top andropause specialist, tomorrow. If I get my testosterone back up, literally, along with my confidence and physical health(not mental health, lol) then I can ‘walk like a man’.(courtesy of The Four Seasons). The last thing I want to be is homeless and broke.
Running on empty, actually I 100% understand. I suffered from CFS and general fatigue and depression for a long time. Quite a bit brought on by my ex-Hitler, and just from a physical condition. I am not a doctor, however, get your testosterone up if its low, and try a vitamin B complex. It did wonders for me and helped me be physiologically/emotionally stronger, resistant, to all the bullshit my ex-Hitler imposed on me. You may also want to take a look at this website, its quite interesting and may be of help to you. http://www.itsnotmental.com
Regarding finances, try a mediator – much less expensive than a lawyer and they don’t thrive (read: they don’t love) the divorce industry as much as lawyers do. You can also call lawyers and get a free initial phone consultation in many cases, or, many Universities have free law clinics where student attorneys, in their last year of law school, can help/handle your case for almost free. They are supervised by a law professor with years of law experience.
At least as a light at the end of the tunnel, keep a vision of how GTFO will be for you someday, your emotional freedom and happiness. We’re all walking wounded to some degree but there is hope.
Cuatezon, thank you for sharing your story. Yes, long road to go and since this is the day to commemorate D-Day,(and my flag is out seven days a week, though I’m not a veteran, I want to honor the men and women who’ve served and who are now serving)I need to plan this operation, slowly and carefully, because once I’m out the door, too late to say, “Damn, I didn’t think of this!”
Currently in communication with a father/daughter law firm that specializes in family law/mediation. Right now, just exploratory. I need to get my health in better shape, though the s**t storm I’ve been living in might very possibly be the reason my health is trashed. I’m just a ball of stress, getting by on five hours of sleep each night. And one of my best friends, who was like a brother and spiritual master, died a month ago at 59 from a heart attack, so another wound to add.
Running on empty, glad to be of help where I can. Living with my ex-Hitler made me physically ill. I got puffy-faced, slept horribly, developed a big sore over one of my eyes, was pale, confused, angry, depressed. People at work were concerned for my health by what they saw – I was too ashamed to tell them what was happening. I think I was developing some diabetes and adrenal fatigue.
Plan your exit well, but it will probably be painful in many ways. And like most of us, we often doubted ourselves, missed our ex-Hitlers, thought about going back because abuse was familiar, while freedome/solitude was a whole new world and kinda scary.
Maybe finding some support group and/or a good therapist who understands mens issues like this may be a good start.
Cuatezon,
Saw the urologist yesterday(6/11)and my blood test showed that my total testosterone dropped 59 points, from 419 in 12/2012 to 360, so he prescribed testosterone cypionate injections, 100mg every seven days. Back in six weeks and updated blood work(total T, free T, estradiol, PSA). My wife is pleased. No idea why, because if the shots ramp up my libido( along with all the other benefits of testosterone restoration) to what it was twenty or thirty years ago, hell, even ten or fifteen years ago, I’m going to be chasing her around the house, lol. BUT, if she falls back into her routine of pushing me away, away I’ll go.
empty, my guess is that the reason your CBW is pleased is because she figures that if your sex drive improves, she will have something else with which to exert control over you. Here’s some advice that I will say up front is, well, unconventional. But if I were in your circumstances, I’d consider it. It is this: While you are working through your current situation, get an SSRI prescribed for you. The reason I say this is, SSRI’s are notorious for suppressing sex drive — which, while you are working your way through your current situation, might be a good thing. And there could be side benefits in terms of managing your chronic pain; Cymbalta (to name one) is now “on label”, at least in the U.S., for chronic pain management. Keep in mind that SSRIs are physiologically addictive and that eventually you will have to go through a withdrawal process when you quit them. But for the short term, they could help you greatly.
Cousin Dave & Cuatezon,
Last week, third testosterone shot and suddenly my libido came back but even better, my depression greatly diminished. My wife noticed that and she now wanted us to be closer. I’m not going to lie; I was horny and she’s the only woman around at the moment but we ultimately spent a lot of time making out. The week saw a decided thaw but I knew I was playing with an unstable person. Yesterday, made my move to get her into bed. “I hate sex”, “I don’t need sex”, “You’re disgusting”, “I never found you sexually appealing”, “Go find a prostitute” and “I was always attracted to men who treated me like dirt.”
This morning she’s crying, telling me how much she loves me. I dismissed her pleading, telling her I’ll discuss it with my new therapist(whom I’ve been seeing for three weeks). I know: I’m a shmuck for even trying because I know the pattern. Emotional and physical abuse present in similar ways; you get abused, then a profuse apology, make up sex, then abuse, once again, etc, etc. A never ending cycle.
ROE – its not so much playing with an unstable person, as it is playing with fire. You’ll get burnt. Sex, pills, testosterone, nothing will change your partner and her behavior. Ever. For me its difficult to have sex w/ a woman w/o feeling some kind of bond or emotional connection. I think is true for a lot of us non-BPD/Sociopaths. For the BPD/Sociopath, sex is a tool, a way to manipulate and get what you want (giving sex or denying sex).
Anyway, glad you’re getting the testosterone thing under control b/c beyond sex drive & energy, we need it for proper functioning of a lot of other things, and low T can cause heart disease, diabetes, and other problems.
You’re not a shmuck my friend; you have low self esteem. Just like I did. I went back again & again, a glutton for punishment. Hated myself for it. And a vicious cycle was born & propagated. For you to break the cycle you need to build some self esteem, which hopefully the counselor you’re seeing is helping you with.
Thank you, once again, cuatezon.
Follow up, Dr. T. I printed out several of your pieces from the index, wrote a strong but respectful letter to my psychiatrist and dropped it off at her office, today. Maybe, just maybe, she will open her eyes and mind to the reality of women abusing men. Also sent out another query to another law firm that specializes in family law and mediation. I can’t believe I’m actually, finally starting on this journey, but I believe my friend’s untimely death has been the catalyst. He’d been married to a BPD/bipolar woman thirty yeas ago and after four years, that was the end of it. And he never got married again. I believe he’s watching over me, along with my father and mother.
Below is a text from my possibly soon to be exgf (although Ill probably go back again) because I went out to meet guy friends at a bar last minute and told her=”going out to me so and so. I know it makes you uncomfortable but I will honor and respect you. xo”. Then she withdrew the next day until nighttime when she started writing about how I ALWAYS pick my friends first and how dare I think I can go bar it up and act single with my bachelor friends. I keep calling her out that nothing I do will ever be enough and that she wants to control my life. She says Im delusional.
“Being last to my bf I love is a dealbreaker. ive told you countless times and you refuse to hear me, let alone care. now I realize it will never change and im making myself sick b not being with you BECAUSE you do not care about this huge issue. im done asking for it as you know. but if thats the case then i will need to move on. And just for the record since you say you always cared so much…the day I was sicker than I had ever been with vertigo, vomiting, crying bc it was so bad, YOU CHOSE YOUR FRIENDS. When I was getting sick with injections, you chose your friends out at parties, bars, all of it. We both know the TRUTH about how this went down. and considering im pretty certain you will never change, at least not in OUR lifetime, maybe the next girl will be worth it to you. and I cant hear your lies anymore about wanting the best for me because that would have been/could have been you. you CHOSE not to be. nothing i can do. everything you could have done but you did not care enough. (this isnt me fighting for anymore either, this is me giving myself closure)
Toughman – see above therapeutic technique. GTFO. Thats all I can say my friend.
Yes, please do. GTFO and no contact. She’s a parasite. You don’t need her.
Agreed, GTFO and no contact. You will feel much better in the long term, and the sooner you get out the less emotional/mental damage she will have done.
I can’t stop rereading this. Its like you rewrote the wife’s blueprint to destroy me. Its spot on in every way. I’m a smart successful man with high self confidence and even when I knew what was going on I stayed so I would hope to have a chance to know my two daughters. I finally got the courage to leave after 8 horrible years of marriage I find it amazing that her lawyer thinks I’m good enough to pay hundreds of thousands to her but I’m not good enough to share equal custody. Watching my kids be emotionally abused by a BPD porn addicted woman kills me but I had to leave or go insane. I am glad there folks like Dr. T who see this behavior as I now know I’m not crazy even if I need counseling to get past this abuse that is magnified by a court system that punishes successful men.
Life with a BPD is an endless game of rock, paper scissors, and they instinctively know what you play before your hand is ever down.
If you play with a BPD, and you put down scissors and she puts down paper, she’ll insist that she won because paper wraps scissors.
Like so many others, this is my life as it played out. I’ve been out for almost two years, divorced for almost 9 months, and I have never felt better. I look back on my life with her with bemused head-shaking, as if to say, “boy, was I dumb.” I know that I stayed because I believed in the permanence of marriage, and I wanted to give it everything I had. Still, like so many others, I wish I had awaken to the real truth sooner, that “everything I had” would never be enough. Now, I deal with my ex-wife due to our children, and I can be pleasant, even friendly to her, but maintain my boundaries. We even talk about our failed marriage, and despite her “Scarlett O’Hara” routine at the end of the marriage, it appears that revisionist history has me having been the unstable, moody animal whom she tried so hard to reach and to love. I just nod and smile. When I receive the nasty texts on OFW, I take a deep breath and reply with “just the facts.” Sometimes, I’ll send a joke (she sent an unprompted text via OFW about not wanting the children and me to pick out a new pet for her after her evil cat died; I had no intention of doing so, but replied “So, I should return the rattlesnake I bought you?”) I’m in a pretty healthy and very happy place, now, thanks in no small part to this site and the excellent work of Dr. T. One of the most satisfying aspects comes when my ex sees and hears how much I enjoy life, and it drives her even nuttier. Keep the faith, friends-it gets so much better…and, as always, thanks, Dr. T!
Touche! Well said freeatlast. It really drives my ex-Hitler crazy when her temper tantrums, manipulations, snide remarks and attempts to hurt me go ignored and I maintain calm peace, serenity. Now that I don’t react anymore, she isn’t sure what to do and I think her rage turns inward on herself.
I feel like this site is kinda like an AA meeting. Have to come back every so often, to get a dose of ‘medicine’, talk about the problems, share with others, and keep my sanity. Reminds me of where I’ve been (bad places) and where I can go (good places).
Freeatlast, you were not dumb. You were mis-educated. When you were young you were taught a bunch of things about people, and women specifically, that are not true. You had no way of knowing this because the information that would have disproved what you were taught was systematically withheld from you.
What we’ve all had to do is re-educate ourselves. The process takes a lot of time, but the root principle is simple: Women are human beings. They do not transcend the human condition; they are subject to all of the same errors and disorders that are common to being human. Good women freely admit to their humanity and that they make mistakes and errors in judgement, just like men do. That’s the principle, but just hearing the words is not enough. You have to take it to heart, and that takes time. But once you do, you are liberated from all of the lies you were taught as a young boy, and you will see women in a new light.
cuatezon thanks. i cant seem to get myself to even want to move on. she is really great until i act according to my needs and then i get accused of putting friends first. i have such a good time w her and to think ill never share those moments again is a hard choice to make. ive read so much here and i feel like im well studied on bpd but even wiyh knowledge about bpd i want to go back telling myself ill leave next time. she is getting better in therapy alyhough she is being treated for ptsd not bpd. she apoplogized for rages but at yhe root of it she is unreasonable. im to never think of other women. im to share my whereabouts frequently each day. i.am not to go to bars w friends (i am allowed but usually withdrawn from). maybe i will look back and feel good i left when im out of the fog. but ill always miss a lot about her and our great times. its just amazing how literally days apart i can be the closest thing to her and then one landmine i.accidently.step on and i.am treated like villian. self worth and needing to be needed are my problems i think. healthy men would turn their back.
Well toughmat I don’t know everything thats for sure, but I can relate. I’ve been married to & dated many flavors of BPD/Narcissist/Sociopath. Hitlers of different races, socio-economic backgrounds, etc. Last year I dated a neurologist/neuropsychiatrist with major Narccisistic Personality Disorder and some strong BPD too. Many, many head games & emotional games. Anyway, we had a great time going out though, going to dinner, surfing, hiking, doing all kinds of activities. I definitely got attached to her. Part of it too was I didn’t want to be alone, to me, it was better to take some abuse and head games, have my heart torn out a few times, take some shit tests…anything better than being alone.
I don’t know if its necessarily us being ‘unhealthy’ (although we certainly can be) but I think many of us guys that end up here, we are sensitive, kind and good natured people who get taken advantage of.
I don’t know how old you are but imagine your life being with an abusive person 10, 20, 30yrs from now, and how you’ll feel…and how bad it will get if you have kids with her then its going to become substantially more heart-wrenching. Something that I’m living right now. Thats why I’m so adamant about telling people here GTFO. Wouldn’t wish this situation on anyone.
I’m just curious, how did she get her degree? I thought med school is reserved only for smart, hard working, responsible people. I cannot imagine how can a bpd get through such a difficult field, even those “smart” ones.
Medical (or psychology) knowledge can be a dangerous weapon in wrong hands.
Hi Cicak! Many sociopaths are highly intelligent & manipulative. They can have high IQs and function perfectly well at the highest levels in society. There are some articles out recently in fact, stating that often the most successful people in their field often show sociopathic, bully & narcissistic tendencies. I forgot the article name but probably on internet somewhere.
Ted Bundy had a law degree – pretty darn dangerous situation. We see more cases of nurses and other medical personel silently murdering hospital & nursing home patients via poisoning or other methods. Regrettably, many police officers are BPDs, bullies, Cluster B’s. Couldn’t think of a more dangerous situation than a BPD with a gun & that kind of power, but it happens more frequently than we think.
Here in Socal, 3 police officers are on trial for murdering a schizophrenic homeless man. Witnesses & camera footage shows them stomping on his head while he laid on the ground face down & handcuffed. One of the police officers was a one-eyed cop. How can one-eyed cop be in the field dealing with people and carrying a gun? I digress, sorry, that case still bothers me to this day.
Anyway, that ex-gf of mine was smart in many ways, yet, on an emotional level, she was an immature little girl trapped in a woman’s body. She went into rages at me for little things like forgetting to plug in the TV when I borrowed an extension cord, she lied to me a few times about some of her male ‘friends’ and hid the fact one of them was coming to stay and ‘sleep on the couch’ over Memorial Day weekend, but he was ‘just a friend’, even though she had previously told me it was her mom coming into town that weekend. When I met her, she had nearly 100 condoms in her dresser drawer, and told me she went to Costco and bought them awhile back (before she met me) for ‘just in case’.
I could go on, but that sheds a little light on this crazy girl.
Thank you for your reply, Cuatezon, if you find that article please post it here. I know that some sociopaths are able to study hard, eg my npd abuser has an excelent memory, but I thought that only normal people can truly understand their profession and be really successful in it. Guess I was wrong, unfortunately, these folks are everywhere.
About that one-eyed cop…I’m speechless… It’s scary to see that human life means nothing to them. With such police we don’t need criminals 🙂 Our society definitely needs more awareness on sociopathy. Sometimes I think that Cluster B’s are the cause of all things that went wrong in this world…
And about your ex-gf, double standards and that lousy made up story are not something to be expected from high educated doctor. What do you think, how much her knowledge contributed to her abusive tacticts and manipulations? Bpds/npds are already natural talents for playing mind games, I guess this made her even better “player”. Was she worse than other Cluster B’s you’ve known?
Thanks Cicak. I’ll try to find the article, but if you search yahoo or google with something to that effect, it should pop up (hopefully).
My ex was Asian, and she admittedly said her mom was an ‘Asian Tiger’ who pushed them hard and drove them hard as kids while they were growing up.
I actually went out to yelp-like site for doctors, that gives them reviews. There were a couple of 5-star reviews for this ex-gf of mine, but, there were several 1-star reviews & they all said she didn’t know what she was doing & very inexperienced. She definitely has some deficits in many areas.
I think her formal academic education gave her a higher ‘social ranking’ and she did intermingle with socialites, affluent people, etc., which I think boosted her already inflated ego of herself. I’m sure she utilized neuropsychic techniques and games to mess with my mind…and crazily enough, I knew what was going on a lot of the time but choose to stay b/c I didn’t want to be alone.
The one-eyed cop story, its on the internet. Southern California, city of Orange or Fullerton I believe. The homeless man’s name was Kelly, Kelly Johnson I think(?). Southern California is a corrupt place but thats another story. But yes, many bullies in uniform its pretty scary. Recent video of two cops beating the crap out of a woman inside the police station in Sugarland, Texas. Its the police video I think its on the internet. Another example of (male) sociopaths with power & a gun…
All I can say is “brilliant”! As I was reading I was literally laughing out loud because so many of the points are hammered home in such a humorous way! It’s my life with my ex to a “T”. I could have written myself. It’s amazing how similar the experiences are!
In my case I will add, if he moves in with you, kick him out of the house periodically just to show him you are the boss. Then, after you have sufficiently dehumanized and demoralized him, ask to meet with him and tell him how much you love him and miss him. When he is finally allowed to come home make passionate love to him telling him how much you need him in your life. Once you feel he is again secure in his surroundings, repeat the same sequence of events. Kick him out, beg him back, screw his brains out, kick him out again, and so on. The goal is to make him feel as insecure as you feel about yourself!
I would MODIFY the sex as a weapon: YES OVER DO IT, Fake Multiple Orgasms, say words like: Oh you’re the best ever, no one as ever pleased me like you do, etc. etc. Boost his ego, but also point out that no one is as good as I am, make him think that only you can rock his world.
Also, work on the, I can turn you down, but you can’t turn me down scenario, because I OWN you. Wait until he is really tired or has an appointment that he can’t be late to and bring on the charm, if he says no or not now: Cry, You don’t find me attractive do you, say whatever you can to invoke his rescuer tendancies or attack and put him on the defensive. OH, so who are you doing at work??? Are you a cheater like my ex.
I read this to my fiance who just stood there in horror as he lived this for 14 years of his life…and continues to deal with this thanks to have children with this woman.
Please keep producing great articles like this. It really does help him come out of the FOG!
Well done!
I recognize so much of this in a long-term relationship from which I’ve been recovering for more than two years. The disturbing thing, however, is that in reading this I found myself wondering where I could meet a woman like this, and felt like you’d just described the ideal woman for me. I suppose I have some more recovery to do…
Recently joined a hiking group here. On a recent hike, a gal came up and started talking to me. Said she saw me on previous hike. So, for next 2 hrs we walked & talked. The first hour was fairly normal conversation, although I did see some small red flags pop up, she said she was from Socal and moved to a snobby area when she was young and “became like them.” She admitted to becoming kinda “mean”. Okay.
Then the second half of the hike some big red flags began appearing. She started telling me how she was anorexic in high school, had some issues, drank a lot, all of her friends were druggies (but she didn’t do drugs supposedly). She then went on to tell me she’s a ‘magnet’ for crazy men, and related to me a few stories about some of the men she’s dated. She told me one guy she started dating, after a few days he showed up at her house and just ‘moved in’ on his own accord w/o her consent. It started sounding really weird. She also told me how some other guy went psycho on her during a hike…and how another guy was coming on to her while he was remodeling her home…and so on & so forth like this.
Towards the end of the hike, she started jabbing me a little bit if I made a joke or said something she didn’t like. She said she’s a hitter, and that’s her way of showing she likes someone. She said she even hits her mom. Then she kept going on & on about all her little stories and gossip and jibber jabber. She kept hinting she was hungry – like she wanted me to ask her out to eat (it was almost 10pm at night). I just kinda pulled away and said goodnight.
The moral of this story is to share how prevalent this little psycho biatches are & you just cannot escape them not even on a simple nature hike. *sigh*
Jesus H. Christ. Glad that you spotted her quickly.
If there’s a psycho sociopathic Hitler-to-be in the area, she’ll eventually talk to me. Guaranteed. Need to invent some kind of anti-pheromone that SCARES crazies away, kinda like a mosquito repellant or something. Could I make some money selling Cluster B DEET?
Okay, I’ve finally logged on here to post. The sex thing is so true. “Oh, I want it all the time.” “Why don’t you ever have sex with me?” While pushing you away every time you try to initiate. If she initiates sex, she will do it a 2:00 AM, and then blame you for being unresponsive. She will tell you how all her friends can’t figure out why you don’t have sex with her and appreciate how she “wants it all the time.” Oh, then accuse you of being gay!!! That’s the kicker.
And the isolation. “If you like your (male) friend so much, and want to talk to him ALL the time, why don’t you marry him?” “If your parents don’t want to support this family (my abuse of you) then they can just go to h#$l.” “You know I can never go see your parents again.” “What you went for a walk in the evening without me? You must be seeing another woman.”
Then we can talk about the threats of and actual self-harm. Which is “all your fault.” If you weren’t such a horrible mean boyfriend/husband she wouldn’t feel so horrible about herself. “Here, I’m going to beat my head against the wall.” “I’m going to try a stab myself with a steak knife.” Let’s do this for several hours into the night, so you will be dead tired for work tomorrow.
If those tactics stop working, then she will escalate. If she ends up in the mental hospital (due to her suicide threats), it is your fault. “You called the police to ‘end a fight.'” “Next time it will be your turn. Next time you will go to jail.” Okay, that was when I should have gone to the courthouse and gotten a Protection Order AGAINST HER!!!
Snappydan,
Wow…you just took a page out of my book too! how about mine calling up to work after the 25th time of me not answering my phone because I finally got smart and put it on silent, then for some stupid reason I answer it and she is on the other line threatening to kill herself and has my Ruger up to the phone spinning the cylinder, and said, “if you dont’ come home, I’ll do it”. I said, “I’ll come home for lunch and will bring the police with me”. She then said if I did that she’d deny it all. So I get off the phone with her and call the police, tell them what is happening, they get there about the same time I do, we go in and it’s like nothing happened. There she was sitting on the couch, with this look on her face like “What are the cops doing here?” I asked her where the gun was and she denied everything!
She went so far as to really hide the gun so well that I could not find it in a 650 square foot apartment, however was able to get my other guns and when it was all said and done. I was just told “Sorry, there is nothing we could do and to protect yourself by any means necessary.”
I have heard the “you’re gay”, “You’re a pervert”, the list goes on if she doesn’t get it when she wants it. I have gotten to a point that I just do it to keep things quiet. If I don’t it’s like you said, above all hours of the night to screem and cuse to keep you up till wee hours of the morning, even though she doesn’t work and you’re left to get up and try to regain some sort of aliveness to make it through a day!
Then you’re not allowed to hardly speak to another woman because each new woman that comes into your life, you are automatically “in-love” with her and the cycle goes on…and on…and on.
“Protect yourself by any means necessary” means leaving and never looking back. Getting friends rounded up to go in when you know she isn’t going to be there, taking as much of your stuff as possible (especially any firearms you own), and if possible never communicating with her again (which isn’t possible if you’ve had kids with her). It’s not cold hearted, it’s what must be done for your own safety and sanity. And, don’t give her the opportunity to commit a half hearted suicide attempt just before she knows you’re going to show up.
And guys, if you’re dating a woman who tells you that her ex “saved” her from a suicide attempt when he “just happened to show up” RUN. Do not spend another second with that crazy. DO NOT feel sorry for her!!! RUN!!!
Same here, “This is my LIFE” story for about the past 17 years, until finally one day I woke up, yes it took me long enough. This article is such a Holly S—! moment! With that said, I’m still stuck and find it very difficult to get out.
To all who said, “GTFO”, sometimes that is much easier said than done! I hope to see Parts 2 and 3 and maybe that would be direction on 1) how to cope and 2) how do you GTFO?
Signed Weary and Bewildered!
Hi Wyatt, each situation is different, and each crazy partner has their own unique flavor…yet its often the same general recipe for a very, very bad cake. You may get Hep A, Salmonella, or a lethal case of Dysentery. Who knows? But nothing good often comes of remaining.
I know in my situation, my physical health began deteriorating very quickly. I would have become ill and probably lived a much shorter lifespan. Besides that, the violence could quickly escalate, and with her ocassional hallucinations, I think there was a strong probability of someone getting seriously hurt or worse.
GTFO can come with a high price, no doubt about it, but considering the alternative – jail, maimed or dead – I’ll take the exit strategy anytime. Travis Alexander was murdered by Jodi Arias, a cute, sweet-looking gal who is a diagnosed Borderline. Had he realized what was happening sooner, maybe, just maybe he’d have survived (and no I’m not blaming him, just emphasizing the sooner GTFO happens the better). I’m alive and relatively well today. I wouldn’t be if I were still with her. Thats all I can say.
I hope you’re not in any physical danger. There’s always the long-term mental & physical health effects to consider as well. Do what you think is best and you have a lot of understanding, empathizing people here to support you.
I don’t think it can be over emphasized how dangerous these people can be. She has already demonstrated how dangerous she is by the “Ruger” insident. She is much more likely to kill you than herself. She’ll only kill herself if she happens to botch one of her “guilt trip” attempts, and if she botches it, you will be much better off. Get out now before the coroner has to carry you out.
you must have video in my house. i went from having sex 3-4 times aweek to once a month on the day she ovulated. she used to put an x on the calender. but no touching your self. then you are a pervert. funny for the last two years i slept in the marital bed she would rub one out every time i got in bed.she has denigrated me to every one in our small (600 people) town. she has gotten almost all of my family on her side.before i filed for divorce the were all a bunch of scum bag losers according to her. i wasn’t allowed to hang out with them. now they are going to testify against me at trail!!!!the absolute worst part is what she is trying to do to my children (6-11-13).i finaly got the law gaurdian to split our time until the divorce is final. now at least i get to spend some quality time with them .when she’ll leave us alone which isnt very often. before they were afraid to even talk to me. my six year old would have to ask to say good night to me.she has been trying to get me booted from the house since i filed.she hasnt really worked in twenty years.unless you call making 80 dollars a week working. then i had to put 40 dollars a week in gas in her car.when i got away from her for a week to take care of my dad i found this site. this has been a godsend for me.
I first logged into this website in early 2009, during my very difficult departure from my (now ex)wife. I haven’t read or been back here in several years.
I read this article today and it brought me back to a very disgusting and horrible memories of being married to a woman just like this description for 18 years. In my case, a PhD marriage counselor that my (now ex)wife and I attended for marriage counseling told me after we’d separated, “Yes, she exhibits many behavior patterns of a borderline personality disorder.” I didn’t even know what that meant then, but reading many many months on this web site and other resources, I did learn.
I can’t emphasize enough to the men reading this web site how powerful getting REAL UNDERSTANDING of what YOUR relationship is with these kinds of women. I want to say too that you are 50% of the problem because you allow this to continue. All you have to do is leave. Break up. Go no contact.
Looking back on my own story after several years away from my ex, gives me just almost fearful yukky feelings when I think back to the life I had. The lies I told myself to allow all these steps so clearly set forth in this article to happen.
What’s scary is that I almost repeated the whole episode of 18 years with my BPD ex-wife with another women who I think is also BPD. They looked very similar and acted similar. Why would I repeat it? Because it was a habit!!!
That is my warning to guys in and getting out of such relationships; watch out for YOUR OWN BEHAVIOR PATTERNS so that you don’t repeat them. I firmly believe my reading for many months of the articles here at shrink4men dot com years ago were the main reason I “pushed away” the next BPD woman I came across after my divorce. She was HOT! She tempted me with sex immediately by saying “I was played really hard recently.” Explained to me she had sex with a man immediately and he “used her” for months. What blew me away was she was married and having sex “with her massage guy” down the hall while her husband was in the house! Yes, I was entangled in that. But reading all that Dr Tara (and others) had written caused me to “push away” (her words) this women. I did go back but I think she realized by then “not to trust me” which really was that she didn’t trust I’d tolerate the crap.
My point here: BE VERY CAREFUL ONCE YOU’VE EXTRACTED YOURSELF FROM A BPD WOMAN that you don’t REPEAT IT! I took 3+ years after my divorce and still found myself at the brink of a BPD again!!
Caveat emptor!
This is eerily similar to my recent experience. Short background to a long story, I have a history of dating this type of woman but have been liberating myself for the last few years. Running a business, living alone, staying sober (I’m an alcoholic) and not “looking” to date people. Happy alone, video games, porn and pizza. Healthiest I’ve been in a decade.
Then, I met the girl and went on the most fantastic first few dates I can remember. We had exchanged enough messages and light conversation to convince me we had enough in common to warrant me breaking the dry spell of serial dating I had been in. Two weeks of the obvious. Fantastic dreams. Jokingly flirtatious talks of marriage. How can we be so close so quick. Blah blah blah.
Then some light discussion came up about exes. She had one, an abusive one (this is legit and verified by impartial third parties), and according to her she had not “seen him in years.” I tell her it’s cool, we all have pasts, etc. Then she just details all the horrible stories, and she makes me promise her that I won’t let him back into her life when he tries (she lives in a small town, I’m a public figure, and it made sense to think he’d “find out”). I tell her I don’t feel comfortable being responsible/controlling in that aspect considering the freshness of the relationship. She begs me to take care of her if he contacts her. I reluctantly agree to act as the “new man” if he tried to start drama, perhaps willing to send a protective text if need be. This made her very happy. Sex.
He contacts her via text the next week. I tell her I support whatever she chooses to do (if she DID want to see him, I’d rather have it happen in the open). She chose, on her own accord while I was at work, to tell him never to contact her again, that she has a “new boyfriend” (I hate that phrase) and he (I) knows “everything he did to (her).” Upon hearing this, I say “whoa, that’s heavy, but well, nice job standing up for yourself and lemme know if you need to talk.” This is a Monday afternoon…
.. I go to work Monday night from 8pm-3am. I send one text that says “goodnight” around midnight, and a funny picture from the internet around 1am…
.. 4am Tuesday I get off to about a dozen angry txts. “How could you ask me to just forget seven years of my life?! I wrote off one of my best friends for you! You don’t love me!! You’re coming on too strong with too many calls and texts and I don’t know if I can do this! I can’t… We’re done!!” This was like, eleven text spread out over a few hours.
This is when I was like WTF and enter here an obvious week of confusing melodrama and miscommunication, from hang-up-on-me calls to those texts that, if unanswered, turn into all-out verbal assaults. I ask her if she’d seen her ex, simply because I cannot think of any other influence for her sudden psychosis. She accuses me of being “insane,” claiming she would “never, ever ever talk to that monster again.” She says we’re over because I’m not able to trust her. I remind her of what she made me agree to, she gaslights.
Thursday she mentions “closure” word, I cave, agree to meet her to discuss basic breakup shit (DVD returns, clothes back, etc) and hopefully have a “let’s be civil if we see each other at the mall” discussion.
We meet up and somewhere along the psychosis, I find MYSELF apologizing to her. You can literally cut and paste snippets from the above article here about turning things around gaslighting and all that fun stuff… Literally two full days of me apologizing for that one time I accidentally didn’t cater to her simultaneous inconsistencies and demands. Sex promised, withheld and reminded.
If anyone can guess who she decided to call, on her own accord, and hang out with on the Wednesday we were split, give yourself a gold star. Yeah, it was the ex.
So there I am, apologizing for “accusing” her of doing exactly what she did. Still, I caved more and remind her I’m a new boyfriend and I have no right to discuss/address her life, and the above article’s general steps unfold like a manual, only over a much shorter period of time. Since she was a victim of abuse, I figured her actions were justified, or at least to be sympathized with. Anything I said or did would compromise her natural healing or processing, and I even went to the extent of excusing her terribly abusive insults. I even blamed my own “insecurities” (aka not wanting to be called names for hours on end) for her actions.
Let me save you the details and skip to how I ended this textbook cycle last week.
After a few months of basically emulating this article like a script, I finally looked at myself. I may not be to blame for this girl’s abuse, but I wasn’t leaving, I was making excuses for it. My business was on the back burner, if not moldy. My best friends were asking where I was (even though she had added all of them on social media). BUT, I didn’t want to accept it was me.
I suggested she seek group counseling, or even a hotline to address her past ex/abuser, and subsequently her anger towards me(n). She continued to make excuses. Too much time needed, not enough time at hand, too much to talk about, not enough to talk about, etc. She “didn’t need help.” She’d “been to therapy.” It was “normal to fight.” Etc.
The abuse had become visible to even her friends. I was told I was boring in bed (saving the gory details, I am far from vanilla). I was laughed at for getting sad over a dead friend. I was told she was the best I was ever going to have, that my exes were all pieces of shit who I may as well go back to if I wanted to be treated like shit, that I’m not worth a call back or a txt goodnight, unless my phone was off, then it was my fault for not returning the call/txt. She complained about never being able to come over because she had no money, so I have her ten bucks for gas, she crumpled it up and threw it away claiming she doesn’t want a “fucking sugar daddy”. She had me take her out to dinner and let all of her food get cold, telling me I make her too sick to eat. Just, cruel, one-after-the-other, set-up-and-knock-down insults.
To top it off, I had been HYPER AWARE of my own behaviors and words, making sure never to upset her irrational, inconsistent, trigger-based anger. Not only walking on eggshells, but refusing to engage in anymore fights, not responding to insults, etc. If anyone had ever talked to me the way she did, I would have walked away in a split second. Yet, there I was, and literally *just taking it*.
I finally got the balls to break up with her on the basis that even if we were in “love” (we weren’t but you know how the cycle works), there was no excuse for the things she was saying and the cruelty and the threats and yadda yadda.
Can anyone guess what happened here?
So yeah, after the apologies, amazing make-up sex and promises for her to seek help, it was literally nineteen minutes out of my driveway before the anger and cruelty started again. I was told she “needed some f***ing space” and that our plans (we had made a “date” for the first time in weeks) were cancelled so she could go drink with her friends.
This cycle is happening to me, a worldly, 30something college graduate. And I’m falling for it.
LUCKILY I found an “out,” one that worked.
After noticing I was drinking again, I decided it was time for AA. Not due to the relationship even, just due to my liver and wallet. She sent me an email the other day asking how I was, and I told her I was at a meeting, deciding to seek help for my drinking.
Crickets.
For some reason, the idea of me seeking help turned her abuse machine off.
Now, will it be back? Of course it will. I can already see the texts and the emails, but the mere idea of me sitting in a room discussing my feelings to strangers seemed to be enough of a threat to her plan. She sent me an email saying she is “hurt we had to break up but understand my healing has to come first.”
I’m not saying go to AA. I’m saying air your feelings in any aspect possible and make it known you are doing so. I’m commenting for this reason. The more I am open about needing help, the more she has to go up against if she wants to tear down my defenses again.
If you are open about your struggles with others, the abusive woman will learn she no longer has the isolation tools she needs, and since the groups/forums/wherever are not “yours” (like your couch or friends) she will not be able to remove them. It will require her telling you that you can’t keep on with your healing process to get back with her.
This “stay in treatment” thing has worked for me. I don’t have the urge to drink again, but I still go to meetings and make sure to mention that I am to all my friends so it will filter back to my ex via gossip. Now that I’m taking care of myself, and with the help of experts who probably wouldn’t let me rationalize taking verbal abuse as an excuse to relapse, she is surprisingly quiet.
According to her most recent email, I am “allowed” to “do whatever I need to do for my treatment” and she will be “waiting” whenever I need her. So will alcohol.
Hi anonpdx. Thanks for sharing. You brought up (at least) 3 good things for me.
1) Some of these freaks can seem sweet, sincere & normal, but they’re not. Gotta get our filters/radar enhanced to keep them at a distance and prevent them from inserting themselves into our lives.
2) I’ve been noticing recently that if I appear to be, or actually am, more fucked up than she is, its a GREAT technique to make them RUN FROM YOU. So struggles with alchol, addiction, any health issues or ailments, mental health issues, are an almost-automatic scarecrow that will frighten these vultures away. Now the being financially poor/struggling, seems half will be scared away from this too, and, the other half see it as me being weak & vulnerable to swoop in for them to control/manipulate.
3) Isolation. These crazies love to isolate for a few reasons: A) It gives them pleasure to see you anguished/sad/alone, B) An isolated target is easy prey.
Avoiding isolation is a HUGE deal for us. Getting things in the open and letting people know right away whats going is essentially a ‘preemptive’ strike to take out her ability to bad-mouth you/charachter assasination/isolation.
I’ve commented previously that this site/support/venting is similar to an AA meeting for me. Its like I gotta “keep coming back” to remind me of where I’ve been and where I don’t want to go. Thanks for sharing. Keep on keepin’ on.
I’m a little confused about the “closure” bit outlined in step 16:
“If not, then ask if you can still be friends and use the word “closure” a lot. That way if you need a drama fix, you have him on speed dial.”
Mainly for two reasons. First, it has been mentioned in another article ( http://shrink4men.wordpress.com/2009/08/28/divorce-and-break-ups-there-is-no-closure-with-a-narcissistic-or-borderline-woman/ ) that the CB is usually the one who is resistant to closure, not the victim.
Second, it has been my own personal experience when my ex girlfriend of over 1 year discarded me. She said she needed “space”, was trying to force me to wait nearly a week before she would even tell me what was wrong, spreading my patience very thin. She would not acknowledge my emotional need to know what was wrong one bit, claiming to be too busy to pick up the phone and talk about it, this went on all week. Finally, having been backed into a corner, I got fed up and told her I was done. From this point on, she split me black. She basically came over, got her things, and took off. Despite my attempts at “closure”, and just trying to remain civil, she would have none of it. To this day, we are not on speaking terms and she basically discarded me like used toilet paper. As if I don’t exist anymore… an entire year’s worth of effort I put into a relationship gone just like that. It’s a very painful feeling.
Anyhow, I’m just trying to reconcile the differences about “closure” in this article and the one I linked above, as well as with my own personal experiences. Otherwise, everything else mentioned in the article is eerily similar. Thanks.
Hi and welcome to S4M.
There is no closure. Typically, when someone like this offers “closure” is just another ploy to suck you back in for another round of Crazy or attention or triangulation or blame-shifting or . . .
Thanks for the quick reply, Dr. Palmatier!
Sorry if my story was a bit vague — I have kept it intentionally short and somewhat ambiguous to maintain anonymity due to the public nature of this site. Another article of yours which I can REALLY relate to is this one: https://shrink4men.com/2013/02/06/the-next-guy-did-your-ex-girlfriend-or-ex-wife-downgrade/
Your work is pure gold, keep up the great work.
Dear Dr. T.
Let me start by thanking you for your prolific words. It was only by discovering your website and your articles did i finally realise that not only was i in a relationship with a sociopathic destructively evil woman, but also the extent that i had been abused. I was captivated by her beauty for 4 years and sacrificed so much for her, but she played me like a harp from hell.
I dont need to recanth the stories, as they are exactly as you have depicted them, fortunately for me, it was just a relationship with nothing tying us down to each other. I always instinctively had my doubts.
But with that being said, its been 9 months now that she has left me, for her ex-bf i might add, of whom she flaunts pics off on all social media sites. I have maintained the NC rule. She has cut me out completely, after i supported, sacrificed, elevated her status and profession.
And although i keep asking myself the question, how can someone so beautiful be so evil? I find my thoughts and feelings are still haunted by her. I try desperately to get her out of my mind but to no avail. Sadly, she made me fall in love with her, this was her kryptonite, and he plan worked. I know that she will come back into my life, one way or the other, as soon as it suits her, but i pray with every fibre in my being, that i have the courage to prevent her from sinking her claws into me again.
How do we foster our hearts to distance itself from these sociopathic monsters? Without seeking revenge or hating? After she left, i was left with only 1 thing. Myself, and in the aftermath of her destruction, i started to pick up the pieces one by one, and i realised that in that 4 years, she made sure she prevented me from loving myself, cos she knew when she left, she still needed control, leverage to ensure that she could come back when the time was suitable for her.
So now i try to love myself, day by day, and the first place that i started was to think the opposite of everything she thought.
Do these women ever meet their fate in the end? Do they ever become human again?
Just posted this story. Check it out. Sometimes they do meet their fair fate.
http://gma.yahoo.com/texas-husband-framed-wife-ricin-letters-calls-anger-120521574–abc-news-topstories.html
Do these women ever meet their fate in the end?
Some do but usualy they don’t, they are too clever. However, being a sociopath is the worst fate.
Do they ever become human again?
No. And if she become by some miracle you will never fall in love with her again cause you fell in love with her mask, her false image of herself.
I know that she will come back into my life, one way or the other, as soon as it suits her
Probably, when the new guy dumps her. If I were you, I would send him a link to Dr T’s site.
How do we foster our hearts to distance itself from these sociopathic monsters?
Read all articles on shrink4men website (dr T will help you see things for what they really are (as our sweetheart Jodi said)), establish no-contact no matter how difficult it seems, seek therapy, surround yourself with good friends and take good care of yourself (plenty of sleep and exercise and good diet)
Without seeking revenge or hating?
Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program by Melanie Tonia Evans is what helped me the most.
I would like to share my story
I met a woman back in 2007 at university. we had to take a course together. In the beginning i found her weak and unsecure i felt sorry for her.
Slowly over time, we began to talk more and more and i felt it was to be something.
She came closer and it happened so fast i was baffled and left.
A week later i met her again and now she told me she had been together with some common peers and the guys, they were so very exciting.
I felt weird, as it was not even a week after we had been sitting after class. Appearantly that did not mean anything now.
Two weeks later i was organizing food for a common christmas lunch. She agreed to pickup the food with me as she had a car.
She was flirting when we picked up the food, then she went to park the car. When she came back our peers had shown up. She went straight over to another guy it came right out of the blue. I managed to get a seat right between the two.
It did not work out between her and the other guy. Which is a bit strange since i only sat on that seat for half of the evening, either one could easily have made a move but did not. The same evening she told her friend that i was stupid and completely useless, while i stood next to her.
She spent the next month hissing angrily at me when i met her. A month later i asked why she was so angry. She shouted: SHE WAS NOT ANGRY AT ALL.
Half a year later i saw her again at the railway station with looking at me with a cautious smile. I did not want anything to do with her, so i looked the other way.
For the next year and a half i saw her until i saw her at the university again. She came down the hallway and looked at me. I looked down in my book. Then five minutes later she came back i said “hi” Igot an angry hiss back and she started crying and ran away. And people stared at me like i was some kind of monster.
Today i am not the least in doubt of my desicion to look the other way so why am i still thinking about that idiot three years later? I have had many fine offers from women that are more interresting, nicer and more beautiful than her, but i still think about her. It is like a stupid ghost that will not disappear.
discovering your site/s and reading the aug 2011 piece was like stepping out of an episode of “the twilight zone” and back into the real world. i have shared your sites with all the attorneys and health care professionals involved in my now year-long battle. thank you, thank you, thank you from los angeles.
Filmguy – I’m in the OC and often in L.A. for work/friends. Perhaps a conversation to take offline – but would love to hear whats going on/swap war stories.
This is my alimony horror story. In the no fault divorce state of Florida, the ex had many adulterous affairs with other women (while pregnant with the second and last child) and including her incestuous relationship with her own 20 year old cousin later. She gets rewarded for this and her changed sexual orientation with lifetime alimony by the Hillsborough County Court (Tampa Case No: 05-DR-013627) and I get punished financially. How is this right and just? It certainly isn’t and the time to fix such an injustice is now. The duplicity continues and she blogs and writes as well as conducts her day to day life under an assumed last name, only using her legal last name on the driver’s license and to cash the hefty checks I write. If you are outraged about this avaricious and hypocrite, please get involved to fight the unjust alimony laws around thecountry. Elvina and Lee Kallett of St. Pete Beach, FL – Pays lifetime alimony to woman unable to remarry http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l523XAgv_vc
Lee Kallett of St. Pete Beach, FL – Pays $4K in permanent alimony to lesbian ex-wife
http://www.youtube.com
This is Lee Kallett and Elvina Kallett. He pays permanent alimony to a woman who left the marriage because she chose to live a lesbian
Very good article. My ex should have her picture on it! I was lucky to get custody of our 3 wonderful kids. She still tries to make life miserable every chance she gets though. She has limited visitation.
Perhaps the most powerful form of abuse that wives perpetrate on husbands is sleep deprivation. Deliberate nagging and fighting until all hours of the morning. Men are particularly vulnerable to this if their wife is a SAHM, or works part time – she can sleep during the day.
Another tactic is waking a man out of sleep. This may be covert “Wake up! I think I hear a tap dripping/brgular entering/dog scratching at the door”, or far more overt. You hear stories of women shaking their men awayke claiming that he was dreaming about someone else.
More subtly, a husband may simply be forbidden ever to rest, to simply put his feet up for five minutes without nagging and complaining and blaming.
In general – if you live with the rule that if she is awake, then you are not allowed to be asleep, if you dread coming home of an evening, then you are living with an abuser.
Mr. Wombat,
You couldn’t have said more truth! Mine has a Master’s Degree in Sleep Deprivation. There will be days when she will not say a word when I come home from work, even though I try to engage her in conversation. Then when I get ready to go to bed around 11 pm, is when she decides she wants to talk and 90% of the time it’s her talking and me listenting. Then after she “has poured her heart out” and pointed out all my flaws wonders and gets pissed off why I don’t comment on anything, by this time is generally around 12:30 am…
Then a shit storm hits and Argue City starts which will last into the wee hours of the morning. That’s when the fun really begins, because the next day she’ll not talk to me all day long, then come home from work, and act like nothing is wrong and life is just a bowl of cherries. Bedtime comes around and we go to sleep, around 2 or 3 in the morning…she wants to have sex! I’m thinking REALLY?!?!? This freaking early in the morning! Oh, god, don’t reject her, then ALL HELL breaks loose.
Is there really life out there in the real world? I have gotten to a point that I HATE marriage! It is slavery and bondage! Sex is boring and a duty to keep the CB off my case…Sometimes it seems like there is no way out! I so long to be free and can so relate to Morgan Freeman in Shawshank…and think if I can ever get out of this 18, going on 19 years with her, I’ll never get married again…date yes, bur NEVER get married again…
My experiences have been,as I usually discover when reading other people’s experiences here, eerily similar; but you forgot the final step they use in their attempt to totally control you and to sadistically ruin your life if you are not compliant: dupe you into having kids with them.
The mere narcissists are smart enough, or at least self-centered enough, to play their cards right and be able to use the children as a way to vicariously manipulate you, especially in cases where they want an impromptu babysitter, and take part of your paycheck through the term of the offspring’s childhood.
The true sociopaths, though, will do everything they can to ruin your life–even up to and including screwing up their own–and your relationship with your children, if they have to let you have one with them at all.
Poor kids.
Thank you Dr. T and everyone for posting. This article described my whole relationship with my ex. I was with her for 4 years and the last 2 years everything went south, or shall I say that her true identity came out. I am still recovering from the abuse and each day learning to love myself again. I suffered health and low self-esteem issues being with abusive girlfriend and was living in denial. I am taking one small step at a time since I told her to leave and reading everyone’s post I am one lucky person. I told her to move out and have continued a no contact rule with so that I can properly heal. The policy has not stopped her from contacting my children but for now I have not seen or heard from her since April.
I am tired of beating myself up for falling in love with an illusion. I must use this time to get to know the real me and with websites like this, I know in my heart I will get there.
I can’t believe that i can relate to 80% of all this even though my relationship with my emotionally abusive CB ex fiancee was long distance. May be i am stupid or whatever, but in all my sense, i can relate to whatever this article describes. After i broke up with her a week before wedding (because i couldn’t take mental torture anymore), she made false allegations on me of having multiple affairs, secretly married etc etc. She humiliated me in my family and friends. She married with in one month to some other guy and still she is angle in her family.
It’s been almost 10 months now. I have met a really nice woman now, she has got everything i could ever ask for and most important, she respects me a lot. But because i am still haunted because of previous bad experience (i guess), i feel as if she is faking it and if i ll open up my heart for her and then later on, she will behave the same. Maybe my self esteem was very badly hurt. I was humiliated in my family, social circle and work place. Apart fro my mother and one very close friend, i didn’t speak much about her abusive behaviors to anyone. No one said anything to me in this regard but i just keep on feeling guilty and regret all the time. What should i do?
Dreamer, thanks for sharing. First things first. Every day I would start off thanking G-d, your creator, higher power, spirt, whatever you believe in…for having gotten out of a horrendous relationship. It was a train wreck waiting to happen and your guardian angel woke you up in time. You avoided bad marriage, alimony, child support, child alienation/abuse, and much more. Really, be grateful. You have a lot to be grateful for.
My ex-hitler also influenced my family members, she had my sister utterly convinced I was cheating on her. In fact, she was the one emailing a few different guys and getting calling cards to talk with them so the calls wouldn’t appear on the phone bills. This was the tip of the iceberg for the abuse she doled out to me. But I was too ashamed and embarrased to tell hardly anyone, let alone family members. So I suffered mostly in silence and alone.
There is always hope for finding someone normal and healthy for you. However, I’ll caution you – since you’ve almost married one psycho woman, there is a good chance you are attracted to, and attract, crazy women. Watch for red flags, and when you see them, don’t ignore them. Everyone has defects and issues, but many times these crazy women will show you/tell you what they’re going to do to you up front. Pay attention. Listen to your gut instincts. I try to stay positive, but the fact is, IMHO, the majority of women today are little princesses with a sense of entitlement, who see you as nothing more than a tool, a means to an end, a disposable and expendable asset they can use.
To boost your self esteem, join some support groups. Get involved in activities and groups that are good for you. You need a rock-solid self esteem to scare off these predatory women.
Thanx a lot cuatezon for your kind words. That’s really encouraging and i feel bit good to read your response. However, i think my original post sounded bit more “past-oriented”. I am really thankful to God for how i am saved from a disaster which was was waiting for me with arms wide open.
After suffering in silence for many months, i can now see much hope and happiness in future if the woman i am seeing now is really how she behaves now. I have tried hard to find red flags in my current progressing relationship but can’t find any. Sometimes i feel i am trying to pick faults in her because i am too scared to have broken heart again. And i am fully aware that sometimes i behave weird which i shouldn’t. Joining support groups isn’t an option for me because i live in non English speaking country and city where i live, has no support groups in English.
Anyhow, i guess i should be careful but not to the extent where i might ruin this good opportunity.
The thing is, NOW I get it. And truth be told when my Therapist said there were behavioural traits in my other half that mirrored my father’s, I thought huh? But I think there might be something there.
I lost my lover in Australia in 2004. A wonderful bloke, normal, loving and kind. One in a million you might say. I’m gay and 55. And lonely after moving to New Zealand to supposedly look after my ailing parents. They are pretty hale and hearty, but hey!
So one night on the internet I meet a 36 year old Maori man all alone in Auckland, looking for love. I’m miles away in another town but we ” click”.
I’m amazed at how he sounds with his charm and,” all I want is to rest my head on your chest, someone older and wiser and blah blah blah. I thought that’s what I want to. It’s uncanny that we sound so compatible.
In two days we are talking, in two weeks I am up in Auckland and we have the most romantic and loving time. I am smitten. He is young athletic brown and cool. He says the most wonderful things, like I have the biggest d*@k give it to me etc etc. I think,” I do??”. Oookkaayy. Never heard that before. And I’m so handsome and all the things I wanted to hear, he said them.
I race home and I am overwhelmed with all this pent up emotion and think this is the one. He is “perfect”. And I make plans to move permantly.
Which is surprisingly easy really. I make a return trip and disregard a bad mood that he’s in the day I leave.
He comes down to my hometown and we leave together for a road trip that was textbook perfect, passing wheatfields blowing in the sun, lazy days cruising up the highway. My life is perfect.
Day four in Auckland, I mention that my niece and her Maori husband will be up for Easter and that ,” you’ll love them, coz they are really nice, down to earth”.
What I got back was,” I don’t ever want to meet your f#*king family EVER and if I have to then I suggest this relationship is over”, just like that, over, in 4 days.
I know now that this was the first tantrum test, to see how far I would go. And I couldn’t GO anywhere. I burst into tears and thought what have I done.
Next morning all was well, he was loving, I was uneasy, but he promised that that was a one off.
It wasn’t.
The thing was, I thought,” how can he maintain a lifestyle like that on a unemployment benefit. He was supposed to be cleaning a lot of houses around the neighbourhood for all the rich dames in Auckland. But sat around a lot doing diddly squat.
The second drama was two weeks into the relationship. He was on his computer and suddenly wanted a few dollars for a get rich scheme. I said I would if I had the dosh, but since my move I was a bit broke. With that he hit the roof, said a few weirdo things, screamed and left me wondering what the hell had just happened.
This is the part where I should of just said, fuck you I am outta here. But no, we rescuers love a challenge don’t we.
So, he didn’t work, never really did, had an ex that paid for everything and would PLAY ME AGAINST HIM FOR FINANCIAL GAIN and think it was a huge joke.
He would drink 2 bottles minimum every night in the end, which I would pay for of course.
He would throw me out of his place in the end every 10 days, and then be on my doorstep- I had my sanctuary then- crying, saying it was his fault etc etc.
And this went of for months.
He started smoking dope-oh yes, smoked everyday before he met me, even though I can not stand it any shape or form. Caught him red handed one day. So he was stoned during the day, drunk in the night and spending all my money and his ex’s and he STILL whinged that all he wanted was a job.
I look back on all of this and think, wtf??
AND I STAYED. Wow, what a sap.
But now fella’s after 4 weeks back in my old hometown, I am on the mend. It does get better. But it is an addiction for sure. You know it’s not going anywhere but you can’t break away either. It’s like a spell has been cast and they are the one’s controlling it. I can’t understand that an intelligent man like myself, willingly became a puppet to the biggest puppet master in NZ. It beggars belief that everyone saw but me.
But the upside, I know when people play me now and I certainly know a crazy when I see it.
Welcome to S4M, adrian. I’m sorry to read about your experiences with the ex, but glad he is an EX.
And I will stay an ex this time Dr, for sure. Don’t know if some gay men are programmed differently, but boy do they have eerie similarities to some of the CB’s that these poor guys have been with.
I’m just happy that I’m finally pieceing it together. All these guys and me putting aside our lives and getting swallowed up with these monsters.
You are right about noooooo contact and your trade mark GTFO.
Thanks so much.
Will be contributing and sticking closely with this winning site.
It’s a life saver
I have to say since I told my abusive BPD ex-girlfriend to leave my house, my children are starting to act like themselves now. I have always had an open door policy if my girls had a nightmare or need to see me in the middle of the night. When I was living my ex-girlfriend at the time, the girls were afraid to ask for my help because she would not allow them to be close to me. I cannot share with you the joy I feel when I see my girls playing on my bed, they are no longer afraid. I am sure they miss her, however the positive and new behavior I am now showing them outweighs the ex-girlfriend who was really acting a roommate towards the end of our relationship.
I believe the longer I go with no contact the clearer I see the nonsense that I was allowing. It`s now going on to 11 weeks and I am starting to become me again. I still have a little fear of her trying to contact me again as she has already contact my children but my ex-wife and I have an agreement with no contact with her. I sometimes cringe when I get an email or text thinking it might be her but so far it`s been good.
Please keep reading the articles on this site and everyone`s posts, it will keep you on track and also remind you how luck you are to get out.
One day at time.
Wow. As most of the rest of you have noted, this could have been researched and written directly from my old married life. (Thank GOD I’m Divorced!) The main thing I could add would be something more about “Do as I say, not as I do” double standards as a way of life for Crazy, as well as Crazy’s amazing ability to self-justify binge alcoholism, prescription drug abuse, and serial adultery. Add in the ability to fully explain, DARVO and FOG the guy with reasons to:
1. stay in occasional direct, very ‘personal’ contact with old boyfriends
2. go on extended ‘work/conference’trips to far away places (that happen to include those ‘special’ friends you have on the side); schedule those so that hubby can’t go with you
3. spend lots of time ‘at the office’ on holidays, evenings and weekends (when your latest ‘side-conquest’ also happens to be available or his own wife isn’t around)
4. go back on the Pill, even though your guy had a vasectomy years before (because you demanded it); claiming that you suffer from pre-menopausal symptoms (ignore the fact that you’re terrified of cancer, and had a hormone scan that came back perfectly normal, and you accidentally admitted such to your guy). The unprotected sex is SO worth it. Hawt!!!
5. Pummel your guy with super-fundamentalist religious dogma, insist that he “can’t be saved”, and keep him away from your church, as you’re not actually there during those hours, you’re on your knees for other purposes during that time, and it has nothing to do with salvation. (Don’t you need something to be forgiven FOR?)
6. Buy lots of super-expensive, very sexy, horribly impractical lingerie (NOT the kind of thing to successfully be worn under clothes in professional settings), and make sure that the hubby NEVER has seen you actually IN it. Save it for those ‘special guys’, and for trolling for the next one (or two, or three). “You wear it for YOU!”
Good grief, I could go on with that for days… It does really blow my mind just how much pure bullsh%t I was able to fit into my denial. The scales fell off my eyes when I lucked out, and she filed for divorce; she’s getting a HUGE inheritance, and needed to make sure that I couldn’t get any (even though I publicly told her entire family that I didn’t want any of it, and was happy to see the funds stay with the blood kids and grandkids). Thankfully, that money freed ME, and after years of counseling, I’ve come to grips with my co-dependency, denial, and family history that led me to allow myself to be emotionally and verbally abused for years. To the folks on here who haven’t left (or if lucky, been tossed out) yet: GET OUT! NOW! You can’t change them, you can’t save them, and all you’re actually getting from the deal is used, abused, debt-ridden, and potentially diseased. GTFO, get into counseling, and find out what allows you to fall for that crap in the first place. Only then can you really focus on self-worth, healing, understanding, growth, and eventually finding a real, partner-type, two-way-street, relationship.
Ok….I get it. Had lunch with my parents and they wanted to know how I was. Sayyid I had found this wonderful site called shrink 4 men which had literally changed my life ina week. Said parents looked at me blankly and said,”that’s good, now what are ordering?”.
Okay, sometimes other people don’t realise the extent of your suffering. They knew he was making my life hell but I guess life goes on. And that for me was good because yes it does move on and sometimes you just gotta zip it. Hard for a taller like me though.
The things I have learned this week though are;
1. The first tantrum and the red flags that shouldn’t be ignored.
2. The first alcoholic episode and the rational that,”it’s the drink”. Yeah but throwing wine glasses at me and wandering around the streets of Auckland half naked pissed as a parrot, isn’t that flash. AND I STAYED
3.The can’t work, don’t wanna work, nothing suits me. I NEED my own shop and business cos everyone else is so stupid.
4. The rich ex. “But I clean his house and he’s like an uncle to me”. Yeah buddy, but you don’t fuck you’re Uncle.
4a.Also known as triangulation
5. People are always stupid. “Why are they staring at me”.
6. The sex theory and Defman made me realise this….you cannot cum…pardon the graphic….if you other half has cuddled you, yelled at you, sulked in front of you abs then wants sex. Ain’t gonna happen sister, cos we are still hating you and this is in the space of maybe half an hour. But we are having sex with you anyway, cos,” That’s what we do”.
7. The lies, always my favourite. “But it’s only one bottle that i’ve had”. ” I would never do drugs”. “Rich Ex did NOT pay for that, he’s like my Uncle remember.
8. The throwing out of the house,”fuck off you Dutch ###t and give me my key back, you have contributed nothing to this relationship. That was every ten days or so.
9. Irritability…this is one everyone should know. “Don’t stare are me, don’t eat with your mouth open, I’m not a morning person, why is this Fucking place so messy.” And a while lot more.
10. And my all time favourite. Lets get drunk, throw me out and then proceed to pound on my land ladies door at 4 in the morning demeaning to be let in. To which she replied,”F off”. Noooooo wonder I lived in an apartment called the Sanctuary.
But I stayed thinking he was the love of my life. Now I know if I hash had a modicum of love from my Dad instead of violence in the form of affection, I might of stood a chance against this monster.
But the good thing is now I do know,I recognise the symptoms, I am getting better and blogs like this are good for expressing how you are feeling.
I never knew that my other half was anything like he turned out to be. I mean the warning signs were there but I chose to ignore them and paid a big price. But in the process learned a hell of a lot about me. I was rupee for the picking as they say. Full on romance in a nano second. And the weird thing is, the only relationship that has ever lasted was the slow and steady kind of getting to know someone first.
Thank you guys and gals for letting me rabbit on. Needed to. It’s painful for sure, but I’m facing it head on and not drowning my sorrows or having sex with strangers. I’m taking it one day at a time and letting me be me and for once being easy on myself.
Thank you Dr T and Defman
RecoveredAlpha,
I’m still with my CBW but in therapy with a new therapist(just me, not couples therapy)to get my emotional bearings and understand ME, better. I’m on testosterone therapy and by the third week libido started coming back and depression diminished. She saw I was feeling better and for a few days all was ‘good’…until I wanted to go to bed with her. Then she unleashed a torrent of verbal abuse, apologizing later on, which I didn’t accept and this morning, telling me, through her tears, how much she loves me. I blew her off, telling her I’ll discuss what happened with my therapist. When I’m out of this marriage, all I want is casual sex. No girlfriend, no long term and no marriage.
CBW update. Yesterday, she was researching BPD, because a doctor I saw many years ago said her behavior matched the symptomoligy but I didn’t know what BPD was so I let it slide. So she’s reading every web site that deals with BPD and tells me, excitedly, that it’s HER…all of it and that she’s going to call her HMO to see a psychiatrist. Today, no mention of calling for an appointment and I’m not going to touch the subject with her. I know: GTFO but what keeps getting in my way(and it’s my problem)is I need alimony. I’m in no shape to work, even part time and a potential legal battle is not something I’m looking forward to but I know I have to do it and I do want to get the upper hand. I’m a grown man and I feel as insecure and uncertain as I did when I was a teenager. A lousy way to feel.
I ask this question to all the posters, here, as well as Dr. T. My health is in the toilet and working is something I just can’t handle right now. Thinking of applying for my Social Security instead of waiting for 65 but it’s not going to be enough to live on. As I’ve said, my wife has a fat federal government pension and is financially well off. I also said that I signed a pre-nup. Is it worth the possible or probable legal battle and cost(unless I find an attorney who’ll do it pro bono) to get spousal support or better just to walk away, clean. If I want to regain my self-esteem and confidence, getting a monthly check from her still keeps me connected to her. Afraid, though, that if my health impacts my ability to work or if my job search takes months, I’ll be homeless, though I could live in my van(just like the 60s). I’m not picky; I’d clean toilets if the job was offered to me. I really just want to run from this psycho case.
I say go for it. She is the one who caused your health problems and she should pay for your treatment. I wish my abusers would pay for what they did to me. Find a good therapist who will help you with emotional detachment and self-esteem issues. Too many times we give in to our abusers just to escape their craziness and later regret it and deal with resentment, anger… so take now what’s yours, you deserved it.
What helped me most in my recovery was Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Program by Melanie Tonia Evans. I was a bit sceptical in the beginning because she uses energetic healing mostly but now I can say thanks to her my c-ptsd is completely gone. You can try it out right away: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=GuhfFDVDAL0#t=1859s
Raw food diet helped me tremendously with my health issues, look for Victoria Boutenko – 12 steps to raw foods.
Thanks Cicak saw the video, it was very relaxing & helpful. Thank you.
ROE – if you live near a college or especially a university, many of these have law schools, which in turn have law clinics that often offer free or reduced-fee services. They may be able to handle a divorce proceeding for you. There may be other resources too, when I was in college there was some kind of almost-free local legal service I cannot remember the name of it now. I’m sure an internet search would pull up something for you.
I’d suggest exploring the alimony/spousal support. If it were the other way around, do you think she’d ‘let you off the hook’? I doubt it. Get an attorney and let them deal with the conflict etc. as much as possible. Its not a fun process but you may benefit in the future from going through it. I’d really suggest getting counselor & other support wherever you can, b/c going it alone, as I did for a long time, is excruciating and depressing. Get support.
I did analyze it, reversing the roles and if the roles were reversed, she’d have her attorney put my ‘nads in a vise or cut off my johnson, along with the ‘nads. No doubt! I know I’m a broken record about this issue and I thank you, cuatezon, and other members for their input.
My therapist has an e-mail he’ll read, today, about her anti-sex rant and I see him, tomorrow. I watched the remake of of A-Team on FX yesterday and aside from being a great movie, it put me in touch with my rage and anger about how I’ve let myself be treated by this effed up psycho case I married. It felt good to be angry because it made me feel alive and if you’re alive, you will survive.
Consult with an attorney. If she earns more than you, you are most likely legally entitled to support from her. Even if you don’t want support from her, the threat of coming after her for support could be used as leverage to get something you do want.
These types of people typically fear 4 things above all else:
1) Perceived abandonment
2) Appearing/feeling inferior
3) Having their rotten characters exposed
4) Loss of assets/resources.
These malevolent people are especially fearful of being exposed, because thats usually a game-changer/game-ender for them. If you expose a BPD/NPD/Sociopath its a dangerous game & they may come after you; as we saw with Jodi Arias your life could be endangered. I sometimes dismiss or minimize this hard fact, that many of us could have potentially ended up like her boyfriend. Its scary.
Y’know, I never thought about that when I was dealing with my CBX, and looking back I guess I should have. I never noted that she had any tendencies towards physical violence (rumor spreading and verbal backstabbing was her forte), but when you’re dealing with someone who has both massive feelings of entitlement and very poor impulse control, you never know what could happen.
I guess it’s great that this is documented, but there seems to be little to no help. Especially if you’re a stupid, codependent sucker like me. I thought I was tough enough to last until my kids made it out of high school and ended up a total wreck. I made it through my step-daughters high school years, barely! And now my blood son is with his mother. These people, whether man or woman are just plain evil! Hopefully more people will read this before or as they get involved with someone and see these signs.
Tecromatica, I feel your pain. If its any consolation, you’re not alone. I suffered alone for many years, thinking I was the only ‘weak’ man on the planet and it was all my fault. This was back in the 90s when there was practically no internet and there really was no help, understanding, support or empathy for a man hosed by his ex-wife/gf/whatever. Even worse, I was in denial, I didn’t understand what was going on, I couldn’t/wouldn’t believe that a female, would do the things she did, especially when kids are involved. Anyway I’ll stop here or else I’ll get worked up and go on a rant.
There are a lot more support groups and websites out there that can help, and at least for me, its a relief to know I’m not alone and the only one who has suffered at the hands of a female sociopath. Keep coming back here and sharing. It will make you feel better, and help others deal with and/or avoid pitfalls.
Cicak, I’ll check out the video. I believe I too have complex PTSD. Thanks for your encouragement.
Everytime I come to this and some other sites, I feel some consolation and relief. For a long time, I was too fearful of confronting or standing up to my ex b/c of our kids. The kids always being used against me as a weapon. If I challenge my ex on anything, then communication w/ the children is blocked & the alienation sets in. Thats my ‘chink’ the armor, my real weakspot – the children. I feel angry b/c if we didn’t have kids, I could/would easily verbally put her in her place. Yet she does these awful things to the kids, enmeshing, emotional incest, torture and all kinds of crappy stuff. I feel like I don’t have any power or control to prevent this. I’m just an ATM thats expected to dispense cash every month – but me having an emotional relationship with the children is the least of her concerns. Courts, judges et al continually hosing me, and now I’m in debt for ongoing, never-ending legal expenses. I’m a good, loving father fighting to be involved in my kids lives…and I can’t even get regular visitation rights. Its ridiculous. Then I hear President Obama, politicians, Oprah and other idiots going on TV telling men to ‘stop being deadbeat dads’ blah blah blah. Its infuriating. I think the overwhelming majority of men desperately want to be involved with their children & do what they can to support them in all aspects. Its so frustrating. I just don’t think I’m ever going to fully understand this. Sometimes I feel like I’ve cowered before evil and not stood up to it/her sufficiently…yet when I do, I end up incurring more legal bills, drama, trauma, and the kids suffer even more emotionally b/c for her its a ‘Scorched Earth’ policy, meaning, in order for her to win its okay if she destroys everything including the children as long as she gets her way. Just plain cruel.
I get some consolation from this site & the stories b/c I finally realize its not me, what I do or don’t do, I’m not responsible for others’ behavior. Its still quite painful to see the kids suffering, and not be able to do much about it. I wonder if there is a Heaven and a Hell. There has got to be some kind of damnation or consequence for these evildoers who never repent or feel remorse. Gosh I hope there is some kind of justice b/c social & legal justice don’t exist here.
Whats the name of this article? Oh yeah “Abused Men: How Covert Abuse Begins, Part One”
Here’s how covert (overt?) abuse begins: Online Dating Profile. See any red flags with this little princess? Would you like to date her? I can see it now. “Hi nice to meet you Mr. Cuatezon, what can I do to you for me?”
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I am a high energy,intelligent,fun girl who lives life to the fullest. I am a woman very square with my actions. I have high moral values and I am very close to my family and friends. I am a native New Yorker and a city girl at heart. Please inquire within for more details. Thunder and lightening need not apply. I am a bus. entrepreneur. There is not enough space to encompass my massive undetaking pet projects. I make the energizer bunny look weak. Dead batteries need not apply! For fun I love to play golf,run, hike, take long walks on the beach. I love driving expensive but yet classy sports cars and if you have a Bugatti Veyron please call me ASAP!!! I would love to drive it! Ha! Ha! I love to travel and actually I want to plan a mini bike trip exploring the sites of the country side of Tuscany in Italy and learn the culture of the Italian people. Plus would love to eat what the local italians eat! I love all kinds of music except for heavy heavy metal and some techno but overall I am open to everything from classical to pop to rock and roll! Lastly, I am a woman on the square and God forbid I am beyond the super powers of a Ninja if the other person is not on the square either. Life will be short for sure!! Lastly, in terms of religion when I make love I see God!!! OMG!!!! Lol! The horns and the tails of the devil shall emerge if I sniff the sense of sin in your soul. Being such a bright and happy person welcomes the knock of sunshine and clean green fields. 🙂
Attention!!!!!! There seems to be a very very peculiar epidemic called “Whoops! I forgot my wallet aka Whoops!!!” For some reason lately, a lot of men are sufferring with this widespread disease. Some of the symptoms are as follows: Whoops! My dog jumped over 50 fences to chase after the cat. Then the cat was lucky enough to jump onto a piece of drift wood and was able to ride the surf but unbeknownnst to the cat there was a powerful current that pulled the cat further out into the ocean and this poor little putty cat was approached by the shark. Luckily for the little putty cat, a big bad killer whale came speeding up with this tremendous massive weight and force and totally consumed the killer shark. As a result, it created a huge tidal wave in which the little cute putty cat was able to swim right back onto the shore. The putty cat began to run on the shore but unbeknownst to the cat, the dog was awaiting for the little putty cat and pounced on the little putty cat and the little putty cat could not hold onto the big fat wallet which contained all of the 5 MC, 6 Visa cards, and the Black American Express Card. Whoops! I forgot to mention there was also a wad of Benjamin Franklins, Andrew Jackson and Hamiltons. Ooops! I forgot to mention that the keys to his Ferrari, Porsche, Lambourghini and the Rolls was connected to that wallet. Luckily for the little putty cat a big bad bear came along and devoured the dog! In the midst of all of this, a big colony of ants which were actually alien ants came by and transported the wallet to their mother ship for inspection and review. Unfortunately for the guy he said he did not have a rocket ship that was capable of travelling at warp speed to the orion belt systems.This story is the most believable story I have ever heard of because the other one far exceeds the imagination!!! ( Attention: Ladies and Gentlemen: Have you ever had any out of body experiences like this?? )
Some of the symptoms of “Whoops!! AKA I forgot my wallet!!!” are as follows: this condition is accompanied with severe Alzheimer’s(extreme forgetfulness especially their wallet), travelling into a foreign country and suddenly they get into a severe accident and they have no insur. or money and need thousands of dollars to be wired asap, takes you on a date and orders food and then eats half of your meal, orders a nice bottle of wine or champagne and suddenly they only had a few dollars of cash in their pockets and wants you to pay for the rest of the bill, etc. The prognosis is a slow insiduous onset. My disposition as a physician causes me to be extremely compassionate, caring, sympathetic, and nurturing but every now and then THE MOTHER emerges out of me with Big Horns and Big Tails carrying a Big Stick. The remedy for all of this is tough love. These are some of the cures for this ailment: 1) Go back into your mama’s womb because you have not been nurtured enough 2) go back to kindergarden and start building sand castles and play with your leggos 3) It may be tough for people to understand this word and please I am trying to make this as simple and understandable as possible “GET A JOB!!!!!” Also, GET A LIFE and a JOB!!! Lastly, I would love to hear your stories that you have experienced yourself. Note: I have not be innoculated for this rare and very rare disease, Whoops I forgot My Wallet!!!
Warning: If you have been afflicted by Whoops please make sure you quarantine yourself because full inspections will be mandatory!!!
14 red flags 🙂 without the last “whoops” paragraph, I just couldn’t read it. She’s borderline, but unfortunately this is obvious only to cb’s victims…
Wow, it’s amazing how accurately you can describe my life. The only thing more scary than the Ex GF is an Ex-Wife who manages to pop out a couple of kids. If you manage to escape with just an Ex GF, consider yourself lucky! You’ve just escaped the hell which is family court. In that very biased arena, your Ex will play the victim and hopefully your don’t end up with a white knight for a judge. If you find yourself down that path, your Ex has hit the jackpot. I don’t know of any financial investments which pay as well as alimony and child support. I only wish I could buy a stock which could pay off like that! In the three years I was in family court, virtually every time I was in court, the judge would ask my Ex if she was doing alright. During that time she was living in the house, with all of the furniture, access to all of the money in the bank, a lower cost of living (since the house was purchased quite a while ago), and no start up costs. During that same time, I had a crumby apartment, a camping chair, a blow up mattress, and a cardboard box from Home Depot for a table. In that same three years in family court, no one ever asked how I was doing.
Reading the pages on this site is terrifying. I normally don’t make accounts on random websites, but I feel like I just fit in so well here. This article (along with MANY others) is describing my current relationship to the T. We’re about at step 10 on this article, she’s been talking about moving in together for a while now. We’ve been together close to a year now, but we’ve had far more downs than I would ever like to admit.
On paper we seem to be the most loving couple around. Always together, always talking on the phone, always texting, telling each other how much we love each other 100s of times a day. When we’re around other people, we’re very close and we never let go of each other’s hands or we always have our arms around each other. She’s incredibly sweet when she wants to be.. I’ve never felt more loved or cared about in my entire life. It’s this type of behavior that makes you feel loved and wanted. Unfortunately, it doesn’t last. It’s a story of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde with her… When she gets upset, she gets REALLY upset.
However, she usually doesn’t get upset right away when something is wrong. She balls it up deep inside of her, only to throw it all at me at once. She makes me think everything is fine for weeks on end, until it comes crashing down and I get blamed for everything. There’s so much being thrown at me at once (You didn’t take me to the restaurant I wanted, you didn’t kiss me the right way, you sounded unenthused when you said you love me, you’re not saying you love me enough so that means you don’t love me as much as I love you, you weren’t in the mood to have sex with me, so that means you find me unattractive and you must be gay or just waiting to find someone else, etc.) so I end up rapid fire backpedaling with my apologies because I don’t even know what else to do. No matter WHAT I do at any time, it never feels like it’s enough for her. I am always there for her, day and night any time she needs me, but she says I don’t put enough into the relationship and she wonders why I am even in it with her, which makes me try even harder for her.
It’s a bunch of stupid little things I get attacked for too. She really makes mount Everest out of a molehill, and I really mean that. When she gets upset, she’ll stop talking to me, spend hours distracting herself with other things, won’t let me touch her, ignores me when I talk to her, then blames me for not trying hard enough to appease her when she’s upset. She always has a double standard in play so if I ignore her, and give her space while she’s upset, she blames me for acting like her problems aren’t a big deal. At the same time, if I try to talk to her and help make her better, she blames me for down-playing how she’s feeling and thinks I just want her to feel better so I don’t have to deal with being uncomfortable while she’s in a bad mood. When I call her out on doing that, she gets pissed off at me and tells me I never understand what she wants, and I’m the most frustrating human being around. I get called names by her. Everything I do is right or wrong at different times, (you want to play a game on your phone? Have fun! A few minutes later: STOP PLAYING YOUR STUPID GAME AND PAY ATTENTION TO ME! Though she’s allowed to use her phone at any and all times.)
A while later, when she finally snaps out of it, she apologizes to me and says “I’m a girl, I just get like that and you’re going to have to deal with this if you really want to be with me.” Everyone I’ve talked to says that’s no excuse for her to emotionally shut down on me, and “girls don’t just ‘get like that'” She has a tendency to tell me she never said certain things and it makes me feel like I’m crazy.
I don’t know what I believe any more. This relationship goes from hot to cold so constantly and so fast it’s not even funny. My family tells me I’ve been seeming very down lately, and I’ve been having a lot of stress, depressed, and anxiety reactions to everything. I’d hate to leave her because the good moments with her are SO good, but the inconsistency of them is mind-numbing. I have no interest in dating anymore if this doesn’t work out. I always thought I’d meet that one perfect girl, and my gf has a great facade of that… We get along so great, very compatible, attracted to each other, etc. But the down times make me doubt everything. I tell myself that I’m tough and I can handle it, and it’ll all be worth it when we’re really together, but I don’t even know anymore. I feel so helpless.
Thank you very much for this site though. It makes me feel a little better to know that I’m not alone in this.
George, thanks for sharing. Two things I tell anyone in your situation:
1) GTFO – Get The Fuck Out. Can’t emphasize this enough. The relative small amount of pain/discomfort you feel now will pale in comparison to the massive misery & suffering you will suffer from if you marry her and/or procreate with her.
2) Be thankful you haven’t married/procreated with her yet; you still have a chance to get out relatively ‘clean & free’. Some scars perhaps, but no lifelong attachments or quagmires many of us have to endure.
Oops meant to address my reply to ‘Some Dumb Guy’. Sorry.
SomeDumbGuy,
I couldn’t agree with cautezon more, you need to end this relationship asap. Please don’t wait till you get married! What you have said above is what I still deal with on a regular basis and I made the mistake of staying for 19 years!!!! With that said, my fog didn’t lift until well after 14 years.
See I was reared by a highly manipulative mother and grandmother, so I thought what I was marrying was the norm. Then by what ever powers that be, my eyes were opened to many things and you know what…IT ISN’T NORMAL and I’M NOT CRAZY. Nor are you!!!
You said, “I dont’ know what to believe anymore”. I can’t tell you how many times I have said just that. All that you have said above is exactly what has been in my journal over the past 4 years. Do I want out, YES, it is my soul’s desire to leave, however, the longer you stay the harder it gets to get out! Especially when you live in community property state, as well as a state with outrageous spousal support laws. When I am finally able to leave it is going to cost me 20% of my income over the next 10 years for alimony.
You also said and I can sooo relate to this, “I’d hate to leave her becaus the good moments with her are SO good, but the inconsistency is mind-numbing.” I have come over the years to HATE marriage and all that it involves and have made a promist to myself that WHEN I’m able to be freed from this prison, I’ll never get married again, I’ll date some ladies, but as far as getting involved in another “I’ll love you forever” relationship…NOT! You are not alone and not crazy! I was soo thankful for coming across this website and Dr. T, it has really helped me in coping with all this.
I repeat to you sir, get out while you can! Trust me when I say it doesn’t get any better! YOU will lose ALL the friends you have, YOU will lose ALL your family members that you love, because she will isolate you from them! You will not be able to enjoy any of the hobbies you like unless she is there with you!
I’d bet that she totally consumes you and your time so that there is none left for you to be you and enjoy life…do this, do that, when you’re done with that I have some more things, “Oh, by the way, can you do this for me” all the while, she is very capable of doing all the things she asks you to do. Let me paint you some more, say you stay and you get married…LIFE WILL CEASE TO EXISTS FOR YOU! Because once she has you, after the “Honeymoon” is over…then within a year or two I’d guarantee you she will quit what job she has and you’ll be the sole provider, maybe even encourage you to get two jobs so that she doesn’t have to work and can “take care of the children”. You’ll wake up 20 years later and wonder WTF!!! was I thinking!!!!
Get out while you can before it’s TOO LATE!!!!
Go to the Index, hit Ctrl-F, and search for “Stalker.” Read those and plan your escape carefully. It sounds like she won’t let you go easily.
Wow, thank you guys. I’m sorry to hear your situations have become much rougher than what I’m dealing with. It’s amazing how much our brains try to rationalize the pain and frustration of these relationships to us… But why?
I’ve tried to break up with her a couple times before, but she’s never let me live it down. The tears and sadness from her are too much for me to handle. She says things to me like I’m her “soul mate” and she’d be completely lost and hopeless in life without me. I feel terrible when I think of breaking up with her.. I’m not a bad guy, and I don’t want to hurt her, but sometimes she just makes it so hard for me.
I have been pretty isolated from my family and friends, and she doesn’t like when I have my alone time at all. In the beginning of the relationship, we spent all time together, which was fine. It’s our first serious relationship, we had just graduated college together and were unemployed so it was fun. Then life starts to pick up again and you start to have much less free time. I’m a heavily introverted person, so I like to have time to myself to just “recover” but she thinks in a relationship, we should always WANT to be together, and I’m doing something wrong because I want alone time and she doesn’t. I also rarely get to talk to my friends anymore because she gets worried whenever anyone texts or calls me. “Who are you talking to? Let me see your phone.” and she goes through all my texts and facebook conversations, so I’ve started ignoring texts just because.. Not that I’m doing anything wrong, but because it’s better than constantly being accused of something. She’s just very nosy about my life in general though.
I can’t tell you all how many times I’ve said “One more chance” about this relationship. I even promised a good friend to hold me accountable if I go back on my “one more chance” promise. That was like 50 chances ago…
Keep reading. Knowing what you may be up against will help you make an informed decision.
– Are You My Soul Mate? Defining the One (January 19, 2009)
Luckily I finally found a good therapist and last night he opened up my eyes to the manipulation I was experiencing. So I started doing some searching for support tonight and found your site. Thank you for having it here.
I was considering setting a time limit and giving it another couple months, but I kept getting more and more upset last night and today as the fog lifted. Now that I’ve read about this here and some other sites, I know what I’m experiencing, and I’m a little ashamed that I let it happen to me.
We have a child together, and most everything in our lives is tied up with each other. I want to leave, but I’m not sure how to even start.
Thanks again for the opportunity to open up about it.
Eyesopening, its emotionally anguishing situation when children are involved. The younger the child, the more anguishing it is. I would choose physical pain over the emotional pain of not being with your child(ren). I’m living it right now. Yet my ex-Hitler was aggressive & violent, and kind of Jodi Arias-ish. She emailed guys in secret, had calling cards to call them so the calls wouldn’t appearon the phone bill, she would hit me, kick me, demoralize me, emasculate me, shame me…and on and on. I think if we had continued living together, we would have gotten into a major physical confrontation with someone ending up hurt bad or worse. So for me at least, its better to be alive, breathing, and not in prison…even if it means not being with my children. I’d give anything to be with them, and am struggling just to get visitation right now.
Anyway, try to think long & hard about your situation. Ending a marriage or relationship is not an easy thing to do and of course nothing to be glib or cavalier about…Try to put aside the emotional aspect of it that all the movies and magazines tell us to be sweet mushy and romantic. Think about your emotional, physical, financial future. You may end up sick & ruined financially if you remain with her. I don’t know, b/c I’m not there…but if its anything like the others have experienced here, then its only going to get worse. Don’t let shame or guilt or society tell you what to do. Save yourself and your child from this person if you can.
Hi – hope I’m not hijacking this piece or the site, but enjoy sharing my experiences & misadventures here, in part to educate others, and in part to maybe give some others a good chuckle that I get from this crazyness.
Have been texting w/ a girl from online dating. We have not met or talked live yet. Here is an excerpt from our text conversation the past 48 hours:
She: Do you really speak fluent Spanish?
Me: I do…do you speak any other languages?
She: My mom is from Greece and my father was from Italy. I spoke some but not much and not well. French a touch from living in France a month.
She: Basically, you’re way more impressive
Me: What..not really…you have a great heritage very interesting
She: It makes me a little fiery
She: Tell me more about you
Me: Good morning..so you’re fiery
She: I prefer passionate. Yes I agure, yes I can be bratty. I’m not proud of it. I’m hoping some nice guy will put me in my place.
She: You?
She: You don’t talk much about yourself
Me: You want a guy to put you in your place?
She: Well I don’t want a doormat. Someone who will call me on things.
She: Does that make sense? It sounds a little crazy I know. But I can be bossy and I try not to be.
She: Are you up for a chat
Me: (Thinks to myself: You’re bat-shit crazy)
Me: Hey out w friends. Maybe can catch up tomorrow (hoping she goes away forever)
She: Yeah I’m out too. Thought I’d try while I was out with girls. I bet you’re out with a girl 🙂
She: You’re pretty evasive
Me: Out w 2 women friends – friends only. 1 left and the other with her boyfriend
She: Sure 🙂 have fun. I’m with my 2 best friends at cheesecake factory substituting apple martinis for cheesecake.
Me: (Thinking to myself – Missed yet another train wreck with this one, pats self on back for being evasive).
Thanks for sharing, Cuatezon. Your posts are relevant and welcome–at least by me. The texting sample above is classic craziness. It should help us all in the future in avoiding dating these kind of woman again.
My Borderline X used texting as a weapon. She would try to continue our arguments when I went for a walk or to a bar and when I didn’t respond accuse me of betraying her and then move on to the suicide threats (I don’t see as many of you guys posting about suicide threats–this was the X’s weapon of choice to keep me). I’d get twenty texts and a dozen voicemails or more while I was out for my walk. Insane that I took this for four years.
So here is something I’m suggesting ALL men do in the future. No conversations by text. Screw texting–where is it written we have to communicate this way? In the future, when I start dating again, I’m going to very politely let it be known early on that I DO NOT have conversations by text (sending an address or I got home safe is okay but no back and forth). I think this will be a good test of a woman’s character. B types will hate it. Good girls won’t like it but will understand, I think.
Cuatezon, I don’t mean to get on your case, but why are you texting with someone you don’t know? That means you gave a potential crazy your phone number, right? I believe this makes a man vulnerable right from the start. I understand with online dating you have to throw a few messages back and forth before you make an actual date, but (caveat: I haven’t done much online dating) I would suggest keeping the pm’s short and no more than a dozen or so before you try to set the date and don’t give out any personal info until you meet up. A woman with a bad attitude and no real interest in dating will likely want to keep up the chatting so that may be another way to weed out the baddies. Always looking for ways to test without them knowing.
My main point: texting sucks because you can’t see her. That means no body language which is the main way we communicate. You’re missing the main part of the conversation. If you could see this woman you would probably be running for the hills even faster.
I think you did a great job of being evasive and turning the questions back on her. That’s the way it should be on a date as well. Keep it light and keep it funny and let her reveal herself first if you can. Date slowly. No rushing. No sleeping together right away.
I’m writer (not doing too good a job expressing myself tonight as I’m sick) and I’m thinking of writing up a list of ways to avoid the Borderline. Maybe here or on the shrinkformen forums (which I have yet to check out).
Did she text you more?
P.S. My username was Unhappy previously on these forums. Decided to change it to something more positive since I got the hell away from Borderline girl.
Hi freeforever, thanks for responding and for offering constructive criticism. I moved from midwest to southern California, aka land of the Narcissist, about 4 years ago. I’m in my early 40s, and work from home about 80-90% of the time. So, online dating is practical for me to meet new people. I still have my midwest telephone number so I’m okay giving it out. Besides, most women you meet, online or in person, won’t remotely consider going on a date if you don’t provide at least your telephone number. Thats just the reality of it. I’m okay with it.
The nutty girl I was texting with never texted back. I used to prefer talking on the phone to texting. In fact it would bother me if people texted more than 1-2 times, its better to talk live.
Then I moved to the land of the Narcissist. Getting stuck on the phone with most of these women is extremely time-consuming & painful. Its excruciating. Very few know the art of conversation, give-and-take, really sharing. Its just a big download of them, their day, their personal resume blah blah blah. The NPD I dated last year, she was a neurologist/neuropsychiatrist. Humdinger too. The last time we talked on the phone, it was a 65 minute conversation. 60 minutes her, 5 minutes me. I put the phone down once, went to the bathroom, came back and she was still gabbing away about something, someone, whatever it was just pure jibber-jabber. God it was painful. I think I played 2 games of online chess while she talked.
Anyway, I digress. At this juncture, I much prefer texting. Saves me hours & hours of listening to drama queens. In my experience, it also frustrates these gals, especially the Narcissist, because the victim only has to endure some texts about them, instead of listening for hours & hours their self agrandizing blathering on the phone. Narcissists would much rather have you listen to them for lengthy periods of time, get that ‘personal’ attention, emotionally drain you…than just texting.
omg. I was reading this article at work and could literally feel myself well up. I’m still with my wife and I couldn’t understand why somebody who once appeared to cherish me could treat me the way she has for almost 7 years. I felt that I was the problem all the time. I have let this person destroy me inside.
Thank you for such an honest and thought provoking article. You have saved my sanity. I can not thank you enough.
Yep. This sounds about like what happened to me. Her first test of me came when I was out getting a couple drinks with a friend and missed a couple of her texts. The third text to me said “If I don’t hear back from you within half an hour, I will assume you are breaking up with me.” Completely insane, out of nowhere, and detached from reality. I had never received any text like it. I mean who sends text messages like that? Yet all I could think is “what did I do to make her feel this way? I must not be treating her right. I feel so guilty.” There I was. Reeled in. We are now married, and I feel sucked dry. Empty. It is always about her. All of the time. And everything is my fault, always. Of course that friend who got drinks with me that night says, “well yeah, she is certifiably crazy. You have told me story after story of absolute deal breakers, but for some reason you still married her. I just assumed you are you and that I am I, and that while I wouldn’t put up with that stuff, you were ok with it.” If only I had my friend’s common sense.
Thanks for sharing. I think whenever we share are experiences it will help whoever comes on here avoid them in the future (and of course get out of a bad relationship). You called it her “first test” but I think, for all of us avoiding these relationships in the future, this kind of thing should be HER first test. One of the problems is, even if she isn’t Borderline, if you give in to such a test and make it your test instead, the woman doesn’t respect you. And that opens up the floodgates for raids on your boundaries.
I went through the same thing and ask myself, what if I’d simply said, I don’t text? And, when she got pissed, because certainly she would have, what if I’d said that’s crazy behavior and left?
So a good test of her for me in the future.
We need your help dr. Tara. My boyfriend is going through all these and battling the ex wife because she accused him of abusing their 6yr old daughter. A counselor who we believed is coniving with the ex wife testified that the daughter told her of the sexual abuse. All of these root from the controlling and borderline personality of the ex wife.she doesnt care about the kids but only to destroy my boyfriend who has been good and lovibg father to his two daughters.
So it took me about 15 years to figure this out. We actually have a lot of good things going in our lives. It’s been fortunate that I never had any needs of own, and I’m really good at taking care of hers. If it wasn’t for the fact that she has been having sex with everyone but me is probably still be muddling along. She’s not as bad as some, she is a great mother and successful at work. The big problem is that we have committed to a lifestyle that we can’t independently maintain, ahh the problems of the 1 percent. Anyway I’m trying to make this work. Obviously it’s unlikely that ill get her to change, but I owe it to our kids to try. We’re in therapy both independently and together. I’ve figured out why I let it happen, childhood abuse unloving parents ect. She’s made more of an attempt than I’ve ever seen, although not yet adequate.
So has anyone actually seen a woman change or is she just going through the motions prior to going back to her true self?
They don’t change, Tyler. Ever. I think Dr. T would back me up on this. Also, read some of the articles on the website about it and the comments. You won’t ever see someone say she changed, I think.
It’s my understanding, from reading Dr. T and other sources, that the success rate of therapy treating Cluster B personality disorders is extremely low — less than 5%.
Agree with comments above. On some pro-borderline sites you’ll find informations like “bpd is hghly treatable” or “hang on, be patient, don’t trigger her and she’ll get better”. I would put them in prison because of that.
Wow, I had no idea that such places existed. That would be like a site for spouses of alcoholics advising, “Give them more booze. Eventually they’ll get tired of it.”
ha, ha, exactly. There are forums, blogs, communities for borderlines, led by borderlines, where they “support” and comfort each other, like this one: http://www.my-borderline-personality-disorder.com/2013/03/myths-BPD-becky-oberg-healthyplace.html Unfortunately, they don’t stay in such places, they would go anywhere and spread lies that bpd is not that bad as it is.
The comments section is the interesting part. Notice how most of the B’s blame the entire world (not just institutions) for not understanding and supporting them enough. If people would just support us! No taking responsibility whatsoever. If I met a BPD person and they totally took all responsibility for past and current actions I might start to have an open mind about them being cured. But until then….avoiding them like the plague.
I think that it still wouldn’t mean they’re cured. I met 17yrs old boy diagnosed with bpd who openly spoke about his manipulations, lies, playing with girl’s feelings…he admited it wasn’t okay, but probably kept on with such behavior.
I wonder if bpd is curable at all. Anyone ever met normal healty adult who cured his bpd? 🙂
Boy howdy. (Texan for “Amen”)
As my Dad neared the end of his life, and I researched an innovative surgery that might reasonably extend his life, and my Mother worried about what tomorrow would bring…. my ex demanded a ring. It was an ultimatum, and poorly timed.
She assured me that her rages would resolve (somehow… magically…) after we married. She was, after all, quite a catch… hawt, damsel in distress, educated, multilingual…. and yet… I didn’t buy it. If rages could resolve -after- marriage…. why not before?
She couldn’t put her Angry Genie back in the bottle… I knew the truth and she knew I knew. So she bailed, a week or two before Dad actually passed. She, and her NPD momma sent the biggest bouquet (of course).
We’d been dating, long-ish distance, 4 years. It was a stupendous break, considering all the circumstances, and revealing in how quickly and coldly she turned off any feigned empathy she previously had, when put in a situation where she might have to contribute -something- to a relationship.
She had the whole bag of tricks… manipulation, professional victim status, splitting, gaslighting (lying), never listening, shouting, shouting, shouting, fear of abandonment, daily rages, big and little, and IronClad CoNarcissism
toward her Momma. Thankfully, we had no children together, or they would have
been subjected to weekly pilgramages to make her Momma feel important. And worse.
After two years I breathe a big sigh of relief. What a crap ass life I would have had with her. I see her affliction for what it is now…. not special… just an
affliction I choose not to be around.
And… I see how my Rescuer Mentality got me into that mess. How her desperation
was a catalyst. And now, I take responsibility for that and understanding what to
avoid when looking for a woman. My NP-dar & BP-dar are finely tuned… I may not be crazy-proof but I give it a wide berth.
A big part of comprehension came from reading these pages, and others out on the net… like Daughters of Narcisstic Mommas.
I hear you loud and clear
I’m very grateful for finding this site. it’s more comprehensive than any others I’ve seen. I got myself entangled with a black belt narcissist woman. fortunately, I am on about level 3, as we have been involved about 3 months. but the last 2 weeks have been CRAZY. I’ve broken up with her 4 times since the beginning but never made it stick, mostly for fear of her smearing ME. from day one she has bashed her ex. and she wanted to go to bed with me 30 minutes into the first date. the last time we were having sex, she looked me dead in the eye and said ‘every person I’ve encountered today I’ve wanted to have sex with them’. I got up to dress and she started in on the guilt trip that I was leaving because of her bad ex….yadayada. I’m at the end of my rope with this person. this week it’s done and gladly she lives an hours away…thanks!
Wow thats a humdinger right in the middle of sex…yet no surprise. BPD/HCP/NPD have no empathy, feelings, or emotion. Personally, I believe their brains are damaged or malformed, they literally CANNOT feel empathy, sympathy, or anything emotionally intimate…I think they think that would mean they are weak and fragile.
The comment she made during sex – its very typical actually. It is an attempt to throw you off balance, to emotionally injure you in a overt or covert way, and to take you down a peg or two. Many, many times my ex and other nutties I’ve dated would say/do these ‘little’ hurtful things at the most inopportune times, again, to throw you off and hurt you little by little.
I was seeing a classic Narcissistic woman this summer. I knew after the 2nd date she was NPD. She did the little gig and games and tried to emotionally hurt me and keep me down. But I saw through all of it. I became a mirror, and reflected right back to her everything she said/did. It was kinda funny, she started getting confused and telling me so. And honestly, all I did was treat her/do the EXACT same thing she was doing to me. Several times she even admitted to me and said “Hey you can’t say that, that’s my game…” (verbatim). So there you have it, an NPD even admitting she’s playing a game…but I turned it all back on her and she couldn’t deal with it. She got pouty & frustrated.
I’m not proud of playing the game…but it was the first time I had been able to clearly & upfront recognize the psychic (meaning, mental & emotional) attacks and defend myself against them. Felt good. Wow maybe I’m becoming a little NPD/BPD if I’m enjoying getting back at them with the same tactics/techniques. Not sure if thats a good thing. But damn it felt good to give some after having taken so much for so many years.
definitely a humdinger..thanks…..that’s only a smidgen of the bizarre stuff she uttered during sex….
i call it verbal aikido…using their energy against themselves
……. come to think of it i was in a similar situation with the during/after sex thing, when my CB started talking about an ex boyfriend and how he was in bed – I was naive at the time to her statement, but now I think about it, I can see it for what it was!!
Cruel or not – i chatted up a nurse last week – tall, good looking – took me about ten minutes to find a ‘red flag’ – but I was drawn to find out how far she would go to the next step (in an investigative way – of course!) – so I went around to her place for the afternoon – we slept – had ‘reasonable’ sex, and I left. Next day she texts me just 3 kisses (for a response!) – I text back and she says can she come over to mine – so I let her – she stays for the night etc and she leaves for work in the morning. – So Sunday – she has problems with breaking up with her ‘ex’ and could I come around (I did) – (I was/am fully aware of my actions and hers – and I throw a line which my CB used to use on me – which was ‘you don’t know me!!’ – she didn’t understand it! We wanted something to eat – so went out late to a pub (no food – too late) – so had a drink (which I paid for) and she said we should have another (this is on top of her downing nearly a bottle of wine by herself in the afternoon) – I make a ‘sly’ comment of something like ‘where’s your purse'(meaning her to pay for the next) – which she didn’t like and then she stated I was rude and she wanted to go home. So we both jumped in my car – I drove her back and she got out and walked up her drive without looking back. I had no compulsion to chase after her and ask her ‘what I’d done wrong’ (which is what I would have done prior to meeting my CB) – I just let her go and drove off. She hasn’t contacted me since! – SHIT TEST FAILED – YAY!!! – It’s so weird to just be able to walk away – but it felt DAMM GOOD!! It was a good test of my judgement and my ability not to be hoovered in!! – Sorry Dr T, but isn’t psychology fab!?
Detective, you too have a diploma from the ‘school of hard knocks’. Wow what we’ve learned! Again not sure if we should be petting the rattlesnakes, but gotta admit it feels good to completely recognize the shit tests, the mind games, emotional dramas, FOGS, Hoovering, Gaslighting, et al. I mean at this point I can label almost every behavior and know what its about. Year or so ago I would’ve been D&C (Dazed & Confused, don’t you love our acronyms).
Don’t want to be a Danny Downer here, but be careful playing with AnaConda and Rhonda Rattler. Could go into a dive bomb and turn out like Jodi Arias. Need to remind self they are sociopaths and feel no empathy, devalue/debase other human beings, and see others as mere tools and objects. No wonder they can destroy & kill so easily. Ugh.
How do you know she’s cluster b/sociopath?
Not sure if question for me or detective. After years of living w/ a sociopath-NPD, and dating others, the red flags are often apparent to me. That & reading the articles, comments and Dr. Ts listing of their charachteristics makes them more easily identifiable…or better yet, helps me get out of my denial of their existence.
AnaConda and Rhonda Rattler were not taken with a pinch of salt – I’m aware of consequences – it was a test and I’ve learnt from games in the past.
I diagnosed the Ex-Wife and then ‘fortunately’ had it backed up by a Psychiatrist whom I paid for her to see. And the Nurse had very similar traits and although I’ve not taken it to heart – I’ve just read the latest DSM – V – very fascinating! – (love reading) Don’t get me wrong, I’m not after points for spotting and claiming a prize, however it was daring, fun and frivolous – but me thinks I won’t do it again – just in case!!
another bpd caught on tape…
http://gawker.com/temper-tantrum-wife-speaks-out-claims-husband-had-be-896965566
Oh my god
This post has pretty much described everything my ex did barring a few exceptions.
Thankfully I got out over Easter and have been free for a while now. Total no contact.
I heard on the grapevine a mutual acquaintance has been suckered in (another guy she met from salsa) I’m willing to bet she will magically turn up at the party tonight parade him around for attention/a reaction.
I feel so sorry for the guy, he has no idea what he’s letting himself in for.
Is amazing how reading this makes me feel a litle bit angry and in need of revenge even when I’m already in a healthy, loving relationship. I prefer to discard these feelings of course, knowing that having no contact with the mentally-ill the way to go. However I must confess that I found out that she’s in a new fresh relationship and a part of me wants to warn this guy what he’s dealing with. But hey I’m blocking her again so I’m not able to peek at her profile. The sex part is the key, lust and desire can turn you into a muppet. Glad I survived and therefore learnt from the experience!
Posted this past week I knowingly going out w/ a NPD/BPD. Realized was NPD/BPD by 3rd date. So disappointed b/c she is very cute, has a pretty good job, decent social life etc. The dark side of the force started showing and made me sad…but I decided to keep with it to see where it would go, to have physical affection, and, experiment how she would react if I did the EXACT same things to her that she does to me. Long story short, it got her quite confused and supposedly depressed. But it was just an act, b/c then she’d go out with her friends and have a great time partying, going to the gym, etc.
Anyway, here are some of the signs/red flags I noticed from her and have experienced with her.
Quotes:
“I’m an addictive person with an addictive personality. Chocolate, candy, and alcohol are my vices.”
“I’ve only dated Asian men (she’s Asian, but born & raised in USA) and they all have small penises” (this was on our 4th date I think)
“Do your children hate you?”
“I’m a little princess, and get everything I want, when I want it.” (this was texted and said to me at least 20 times during June)
“My aunt told me I should date Asian men. She said they will adore me & treat me like a queen. My other relative said I should date a black man.” (I believe this was to try and make me jealous, what Dr T terms as the ‘cheap marketing ploy’ to make them appear more desirable than they are).
*We went to a 4th of July party. At the party, she told me if her friend’s husband asks me how the kids are doing, to tell him they are fine. They are afraid if her friend’s husband finds out she’s getting divorced and dating me, that he will think she is a bad influence on his wife…essentially, they wanted me to pretend to be her husband and father of her kids, to these people I just met.
**She brushes her teeth everytime after eating anything. She was obsessed with food particles being in between her teeth. She would often bring toothbrush to restuarant & brush after the meals.
***She told me her soon-to-be ex-husband thought she was having an affair with one of her co-workers, b/c her husband found multiple phone calls/texts between the two of them. She told me this co-worker is just a really good work friend. Yet she admiringly talks about him a lot…
****She told me one of her neighbors, the wife, got really angry with her & accused her of trying to have an affair with the husband of this couple.
*****One time we went out. At one of the bars, we were playing foosball, she and some guy on one side, me and another person on the other team. I was a little buzzed, but noticed she was flirtatious with her foosball ‘teammate’. The wife of this guy got angry with her and pulled him away after the game and told her to stop flirting with her husband.
*******We basically ‘broke up’ (thankfully) this week. Decided to be just ‘friends’. Yet, she texted me earlier today asking if a massage would be crossing the ‘friends line’. I replied ‘yes it would’…Now as I type this, she said she’s at an ‘Adult Dinner Club’ and drinking b/c I wouldn’t give her a massage. An hour later, another text just now, 9pm at night, saying “So drunk now”. Anticipating a booty call from her around 11pm. May shut phone off early to avoid ensnarement.
I feel like i have reached the end of my rope (even considering buying one to put around my own neck and just be done with it all) with my super-controlling BPD wife. This site has been an amazing eye-opener and i’m blown away with how much self-doubt and a thick shroud of FOG I have found myself in. This person came on like a wolf in a sheep’s clothing cloaked a mask of blissful independence and newfound confidence fresh off a year’s sabbatical from her last disastrous relationship. She had her “shit together” and she wanted me to know it. Working full-time with an empty nest, she worked fast to move me in. I worked so hard to please her and meet every expectation and in the hurricane of newfound love, we were married very soon after. I too was coming off a horrible relationship and had lost my job as part of the whole fiasco, but was slowly working my way back into the industry I had trained for. I soon got a great offer and within a year was back to the comfortable salary i had once enjoyed. She on the other hand, began complaining about how much time off one of her female co-workers was taking and she went behind this person marking off vacation days on the calendar. It was like she was doing this just for spite. This should have been a major red flag for me. Her full-time status was dwindling down to 10 hours a week. She was keeping the benefits and working as little as she could. My family? My parents? She absolutely hates them. Mainly, my mother and my sister and yes she calls it “hate”. Now they aren’t particularly warm and welcoming people, can be quite superficial and I can see both sides of this coin..but my wife seems to THRIVE off of the hate she harbors for these people. I don’t now any other way to describe it. Its almost like she is rabid and foaming at the mouth whenever she speaks about them. She is quite jealous of her older sister and seems to be entranced in “hate talk” when she brings her up. There is like this cloud of jealously and spite over her and it is so negative I can hardly breathe. I dont know where to go or who to talk to with this. I am not close with any family and have very few friends.
DerrickJ
Derrick, you came to the right place. Yeah, your experience is pretty typical. They have to suck you in as fast as possible because they know they can’t hold that got-it-together persona for very long; Cluster B’s generally have poor impulse control, and they see no moral or ethical reason why they should hold back. They only do it in pursuit of something they want; once they have it, it’s back to “normal”. And yes, they are offended by everyday activities, and do things to harm others just for spite. Alligators eat people becuase that’s what alligators do; Cluster B’s are similar.
The hatred of your relatives is a behavior designed to isolate you from all other relationships you might have. The Cluster B wants total control over you, and anyone else you associate with is competition. And yes, most Cluster B’s don’t work any more than they can absolutely get away with. If she thinks she can con you into supporting her, she’ll quit her job soon.
Have a look through the archives here. There’s tons of great articles and advice, on topics ranging from breaking your own relationship patterns, to the practical aspects of getting away from a Cluster B.
Thanks Cousin Dave! It’s reassuring to read the articles and posts here, especially after living a thick layer of ultra-dense FOG for so many years.
There is one aspect of her behavior I can’t quite understand, and if this has been addressed here, my apologies…she lives in constant pain or illness (or hypochondria) but its as if there has to be SOMETHING wrong with her body all the time. Is this an aspect of NPD? The obsession with the “self”?
Believe me, i have heard it all and not one blood panel has revealed anything wrong with this person.
She is the most negative human being I have ever met. She bosses everyone and everything and if there is a window of opportunity for personal gain, she will step right on through.
Derrick – frankly your wife sounds like she could be mine. I too recently became aware of the thick FOG that surrounds me. And man, she is hateful and resentful of so many people around her. Everyday I hear long diatribes about how upset she is with other people for seemingly normal behavior. She too has a list of pains and illnesses from which she suffers. I have come to realize that she uses them as control mechanisms. I think you will likely find the same thing in your situation. Look for how she uses these illnesses to get you to act or not act in different ways. You may be surprised at the effect they have on YOU. In addition, the pains and illnesses may also serve as an effort to invoke sympathy and attention, and if they are ever questioned, slighted, or diminished in some way they will open the door to a fit of anger. Weird stuff.
Been there, Derek. The only thing I can add here is that trying to understand this kind of person is a waste of time. So maybe she had her tricycle stolen when she was three and now she needs to dominate, etc…. It doesn’t matter what was or what she has, you won’t be able to help her you can only help yourself. What I do now is bottomline a woman’s actions without looking for explanations. I think, is this something I want to live with every day for the rest of my life?
The next step was going to a therapist and telling them, I have to get out of this. I was lucky and got some good guidance. I’m now no contact and proud to say last month I deleted her phone number…
Thanks Mr. Jones and freeforever…I cant tell you how comforting it feels to verbalize my experience and better yet, share it and hear that other people have gone through the same thing. This is the most frustrating relationship I have EVER known. Bar none. It’s frustrating because I feel like I have had to throw logic out the window to put up with this relationship. We have no depth of conversation or true level of understanding. I feel like any exchange with her is like playing “ok, guess my opinion”…or “what do you think about this? answer me and then i’ll tell you why you are wrong”. How do you have conversation with someone who you know is only going to invalidate your opinion at the end? I have reached a new level of apathy that is now sinking into a blackness of blinding depression. I have become a shadow living in the background of my own life. I look back now at previous relationships I have had and I see traces of this behavior in other women, but this one is the Evil Queen of them all. I stand awestruck at the level of contempt and hatred this woman exudes. I think she looks at other people as possessions and the whole world is ripe for her picking.
One example of this bizarre possessiveness…a couple of years ago a friend of hers passed away. Not just a friend, but an old boyfriend from her late teens. They lived together briefly and it was exciting as it was tumultuous. She moved several states away to begin her adult life and he stayed put. To the best of my knowledge, they had no or very little contact for nearly 30 years. She is VERY active on social media sites and heard that he was in critical condition in the hospital. She calls the hospital, gets his room and speaks to his current girlfriend to inquire about how he is doing. She finds out that he is pretty much at death’s door. She is upset and saddened to hear this. A few days pass and she finds out that he has passed away. She talks on the phone to another old friend and then she creates a “memorial” profile for her deceased friend on a popular social network site. She is the sole administrator. She invites several others to join the page and she posts that she is trying to arrange flight plans to attend his service. She never spoke to me about going there but she did mention the profile. I thought it a bit strange at first, but I felt bad for her and i gave her the benefit of the doubt. She kept up with the profile and got to decide who could post and who could not. She even got involved with this guy’s children through social media and got angry at how the service was handled and who got what after the smoke had cleared. I tried and I tried to put myself in her shoes with that whole situation and I could not make sense of it. I completely understand the sadness and grief part of losing someone, I really do, but..the actions she took afterwards..again, logic didn’t seem to come into play here. She STILL admins his profile to this day.
Just re-read this article from Dr. T, its amazing how I forget some of the tactics & shenanigans of my ex-hitlers. Really a masterpiece article, Dr. T have you thought of publishing a book or something? Mabe a weekly or montly magazine? I would subscribe & I’m sure you could get advertisers in to help fund all of this. You would reach millions more men and help them….and of course, consequently, make more enemies too.
Found an excellent piece on the web about ‘Invalidators’. I’m not sure how to categorize this. Are invalidators also narcissists & borderlines? Or, is invalidation just one of the ‘tools’ for NPDs/BPDs/Sociopaths? Or are they synonomous?
Anyway here is the link to an excellent article I recommend everyone read. Its a bit lengthy but does great job of detailing the exact strategies & techniques of BPD/NPD/Sociopath/Invalidator. Wow.
http://www.astro-mate.org/Difficult.htm
http://www.outofthefog.net/Statistics.html
Child Support Statistics
When it comes to child support, US census data indicates that:
•79.6% of custodial mothers receive a child support award
•29.9% of custodial fathers receive a child support award
US census data also indicates that fathers are more likely to fulfil their child support obligations than mothers:
•43% of moms required to pay child support are “deadbeat moms” – i.e. they default on 100% of the money they owe,
•32% of dads required to pay child support are “deadbeat dads” – i.e. they default on 100% of the money they owe.
One of the reasons that “deadbeat dads” get most of the bad press in the popular media is that there are a lot more of them – primarily for 2 reasons:
•There are 7 times more fathers than mothers who do not have primary custody of the children.
•Fathers are 3 times more likely than mothers to be ordered to pay child support than their female counterparts.
http://www.outofthefog.net/Statistics.html
Who Is Abusing the Kids?
The answer may surprise you. It is most commonly not the proverbial “stranger” that most children are warned to avoid – it is more likely to be someone much closer to home:
See Larger Chart
•40.5% of all child abuse is committed solely by biological mothers
•17.7% of all child abuse is committed solely by biological fathers
•19.3% of child abuse is committed by both the mother and the father
•6.4% of child abuse is committed by the mother and some other individual
•1.0% of child abuse is committed by the father and some other individual
•11.9% is committed by someone other than the parents
•3.1% is committed by an unknown or missing perpetrator.
Source: US Department of Health and Human Services Child Maltreatment Report 2001
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Hi cuatezon,
Please don’t copy and paste entire articles n the comments. Links and excerpts up to a paragraph in length are fine.
Thanks,
Dr T
Okay will try to remember so sorry if clogged up the site. Thanks.
Woman’s 85 Boyfriend Requirements
http://ca.omg.yahoo.com/video/dint-womans-85-boyfriend-requirements-194125970.html
Some guy ever marries this nut, he’ll be writing on this website like the rest of us poor chaps…
ok, this is my 4th and last attempt to leave a comment…
@cuatezon
dr t mentioned in her recent radio show about emotional incest that she’s writing a book for people who share custody with CBs.
about that woman’s 85 requirements…i know exactly what kind of person would fulfill all her needs (and even more) – a narcissist (or borderline). after such experience her list will contain only one item.
“It’s not that there are actually more women than men with BPD, it’s that we haven’t identified the ways it manifests in males, as pathological. We might have climbed on-board with the ‘male bashing’ some women have promoted, and assumed this gender had innate deficits when they’ve acted like “jerks,” but what’s often spawned our pejorative view, is aberrant behavior patterns in men with borderline traits. Does that rearrange your mental files??”
http://gettinbetter.com/casanova.html
The writer (of the article in the link) needs to learn how to use commas before she posts.
Here’s something for you guys:
Watched the movie Lilith (1964) a few weeks ago. Having got out of relationship with a BPD last year, it was of particular interest me.
In fact, I jumped out of my chair several times, exclaiming, “Eureka!”
The film stars Warren Beatty, a man with a few mother issues, who decides to work in an upscale “asylum” and falls in love with a patient, Lilith, played by the wonderful Jean Seaberg.
Now the film has its faults. It’s dated, of course, in some its notions of psychiatry and heavy-handed at times. I mean, just look at the title. As you may know in Jewish legend Lilith was Adam’s first wife. He tried to dominate her and she left him for an archangel. God then created Eve from Adam’s body so they would be one and the same and equal. The feminists seized on this version of Lilith (uh, Lilith Fair anyone?) of course but there is another version where Lilith is a succubus, strangling children in their sleep. The film’s screenwriters play with both these versions of Lilith.
Now to be fair Seaberg’s Lilith is not BPD but more likely schizophrenic (she does appear to have delusions and hallucinations) but if you’ve been with a BPD you will quickly recognize the whole set up, the way she ensnares Beatty who knows he’s doing the wrong thing but does it anyway because, guess what? He wants to HELP. He wants to save this poor girl. Then he’ll really be a man. Sound familiar, guys?
The first time I jumped out my chair is the scene where their love is consummated. Beatty takes Lilith on a field trip and the whole white knight thing goes into full gear. Here comes the heavy-handedness: they run into a jousting festival (ahem) and Beatty gets on a horse and wins the tournament for his lady love.
And here’s the kicker: just before or after this, before they sleep together, she says (I’m paraphrasing) “You can’t have my love and keep your honor too” in reply to Beatty’s concern that maybe he shouldn’t be sleeping with a patient.
White knight syndrome, anybody?
I highly recommend clicking on the link in the article above on “shit testing.” The podcast there with Dr. T is important stuff for any of us who are in or recovering from this kind of relationship. Well, guess what? Beatty passed his shit test.
From then on Lilith manipulates Beatty and other characters as well, drawing him into her “wonderland” (the wonderland stuff really freaked me out–my BPD X called her world a wonderland too and some princess stuff as well is in the mix), and slowly but surely (so familiar) he begins to go nuts… I won’t give away the ending. Let’s just say Beatty’s last line will resonate with most.
Another moment I jumped out of my chair: there is a suggestion that Lilith preys on little boys. She definitely crosses some boundaries there which Beatty’s character observes but does nothing about. I’m not saying my BPD X was a pedophile but the interaction with the younglings seemed oddly familiar. She (my ex) always seemed to want to prove that she was great with children, going out of her way to touch and bond with the neighborhood children, and there was something creepy about it I could never quite get my finger on. Because it was “too much” and thus phony? She would sometimes reference children in a sexual way (it really disturbed me when she found certain teenage actresses “hot”) but maybe I’m “just looking for something” in the aftermath?
Anyway, I highly recommend watching the film if you can stomach it and listening to the “shit test” podcast. Would love to get a conversation going about how to deal with shit testing here or elsewhere since preserving our “honor” and not giving in (and walking away if need be) when your boundaries have been crossed seems to be the crux of the matter in any relationship–even one with a healthy woman.
P.S. Just wanted to add that I’m talking about Beatty’s character and not Beatty the man. I thought I should as this because, you know, he’s so vain he’ll probably think this post is about him 😉
omg! I’ve lived this for 12 years. Only now getting out, and the suction is still there! She could have written this guide. I think she did.
My girlfriends father murdered her mother and then himself when she was a teenager, I knew something was wrong when we had been dating a few months and she told me he was a bad husband but a wonderful father. Her ex husband however, was a terrible person for having an affair. She has gotten overweight and I always try to build her up, she however embarrasses me for my belly, I am very thin and have been my whole life. She has no friends and out of a large family only has an aunt she speaks to, it is always their fault for mistreating her. She seems disgusted by her mother for accepting her fathers abuse and has no empathy for her and the decades of suffering but she wishes her father were alive to know her son even though he beat his own son, her brother, and the boy next door that he fathered with a neighbor. In the beginning the sex was world record, now she accuses me of initiating things she didn’t like. If she has a bad day I catch hell. Her daughter seems to catch the brunt of her abuse when I don’t get it, her son gets all the credit and she has built up a mirage that he adores her and is the perfect child. In the 5 years I have been around he hasn’t visited 5 times and if he does it is to get something for himself, the daughter has suffered her abuse and still gets it as a young adult. I am embarrassed and ashamed to have stayed this long.
Thank you for posting. This is way too familiar.
Thank you so much for this article. My guy is emotionally damaged thanks to a manipulative, mentally abusive woman he was involved with before. They were never together (as in boyfriend and girlfriend) and she was involved with and in love with someone else the whole time. My guy was in love with her at one point while they were involved, and it was very hard for him to leave her. She of course made him believe that she cared about him and wasn’t bad to him. Reading this helps me understand the level of abuse and manipulation that happens in these situations.
Sometimes I wonder if it will take years for him to heal and be ready to take what I have to give him. It really makes me sad, because I care about him deeply, and he cares about me as well. Emotionally abusive women don’t just hurt their victims, but also make it difficult for the good women who eventually find their ways to them. I hope he will heal sometime soon regardless of whether we end up working out or not (and it’s hard dating a man with this under his belt). I just pray for the best and want him to be well.
Rexy, sounds like you’re a pretty understanding lady and empathetic to your boyfriend. This in itself is helpful in healing. Its very hard for a man (both personally and socially) to admit he’s been taken advantage of, mistreated & abused by a woman. Its shameful and difficult because society doesn’t accept ‘weak’ men; but rather ostracizes them/us. For abused women, at least they usually can get some kind of empathy/sympathy/social support. Men are isolated & alone.
Fortunately, your boyfriend did not have a child with that woman. Thank your lucky stars for that, because if he did, then he would have to experience discrimination & abuse at the hands of courts, judges, attorneys, psychologists & other ‘professionals’. He would also have to be in contact with her forever basically, and probably be financially abused too.
One of the best things you can do is influence other women and let them know whats going on. This abuse is becoming more common. You can influence other women to stop male-bashing and mistreating guys. Its amazing what a woman can do when she stands up for guys – its so rare these days people will be shocked.
I have to ask this- for my own peace of mind.
There are two kinds of guys attracted to BPD women: Caretaker/co-dependents who get sucked in by the BPD’s manipulation because they think they can “prove” that they really are good guys by winning over crazy, and BPD Casanova men, for whom she is the always interesting challenge that can be kept at a safe emotional distance so they can chase love while avoiding it.
How can you tell the difference between them?
This has been my life for the last several months. It is amazing how accurate this is. The only thing different is that I kept up the fight the entire time, or at least it felt like I did. Now that I think of it, that is why I felt so crazy. I wasnt sure if I was the a@#hole or what.
The part about separating you from your support is sooooo true. She started that immediately by complaining about my female friends to the point where I had to let them all go. She even questioned my family and talked down about them to make me discount their opinions. She did befriend some of my guy friends but she would always flirt with one of them. I am guessing that was to keep me from trusting him and worry about his motives so I wouldnt go to him for advice about her.
The only other thing is the sex/intimacy part. I stopped wanting sex a while back. But the thing is that she would do a lot of the stuff here where it just wasnt convenient to have sex bc it was late and we were tired. Then she had something to hold against me bc I was withholding it from her.
It is uncanny how accurate this is!
Hello, all. I am new to Shrink. Brand new, just today. I’m 27 (28 in April) and I have been with my possibly cb/npd/bpd GF for 4 yrs 9 mths. No kids. Thinking of leaving in January, but not sure (despite the many comments and stories recommending NC I’ve read here). I myself come from an NPD ex-alcoholic father and a possible PD mom, so that may elude to why I fall for these types.
To begin, the relationship started as a rebound (I was the new BF) from an ex-friend she was with for 3 yrs. Early on, I probably played the ‘White Knight’, because she revealed her troubled past with a physically-abusive and emotionally unavailable father and a mother that left her to take care of house, little brother, and finances alone. In her late-teens/ early college years. I was homeless at the time (my finances were wiped in the ’08 crash) and she was single. We dated for 6 months and I saw some red flags, but I ignored them (like many posters) and we moved in together eventually. Since then, it’s been drama.
I have cooked, cleaned, taken care of dogs, 4 chickens (urban farms), and been her crutch SOLELY this whole time. She’s employed, but takes frequent sick days that impact our finances and verbally bashes having to do any kind of “work” ever. I’m unemployed right now, but any finances I’ve ever generated were quickly spent on eating out or her personal knick-knacks. She drained my student loans for a computer (that she didn’t maintain and fried), clothes, and other loads of crap that isn’t mine and don’t share. The last job I held I was only able to spend $100 on myself for two pairs of jeans and badly needed sneakers (I was quivering, begging for these 3 things from MY MONEY). That was 6 months ago. Same clothes 🙁 .
When I’m not floundering around putting in 80 apps a week or doing contract labor to keep afloat, I’m begging my dad and granny for cash. She spends that too. Also, the last 4 years of my xmas gift money (from MY FAMILY to ME) went to her pockets. Didn’t see a dime.
While cooking, cleaning full house, almost FT looking for work or doing labor, animal maintenance, I have to drop everything when she’s around and be the personal clown. She needs constant affection and touching or it’s, “are you still attracted to me?” Same with sex, she needs it now (even if I’m not in the mood) or its a pout-fest followed by, “do you still love me?” If I’m not constantly upbeat (because I’m F-ing exhausted) then it’s some other issue about my “mood”.
She is also bisexual and has a radicalized view about sexuality, gender studies, etc. So, though I am tolerant and loving of the gay/lesbian/bisexual/transgender/queer community and understand their concerns and her concerns, I am never really “qualified” or have the “right” to talk about these issues. She always talks about these issues in a semi-defensive posture and also uses this to put me down and bring out my supposed “intolerance” just because she’s dating me, who’s “cis-gender” and “straight” and doesn’t “get” the “struggle”. It just feels like another weapon or something, only it happens to be about these “issues” and “her”.
She also has no other friends, despite my assistance in trying to help her find like-minded folks and simply encouraging more effort on her part. Everyone else is “stupid” or “doesn’t get her”. She also seems like she has “uses” for people (“this person does this for me and that person does that for me”). Sounds PD.
So here I am. Not sure what to do. Leave? IDK. Seems the best. Thanks guys. Thoughts?
Holy crap guys, you are really scaring the S@#T out of me. This whole article was EXACTLY what my ex-wife did to me during courtship. I feel for it like an idiot. Sometimes I feel like such an idiot, and I get pissed at myself.
My ex would do the 2 a.m 3 a.m sex sessions. And she would complain that I was the only guy she knew who would turn down sex. AT 3:00 a.m!!!?? sometimes I would sometimes I wouldn’t. I’d be so damn sore when I came into work.
Then she would promise me sex, and how good it’s going to be and she can’t wait, and then it would never happen, she’d be tired. That’s what frequently happened towards the end.
I wish I would have found this site before I met her, it would have never gotten this far. ..Actually, i’m very thankful for my daughter I have from her, so I don’t really mean that, but like most guys on here. I don’t know if I’ll ever be able to trust again.
I’ve been talking to this woman who is going through a divorce from her second husband, she’s a friend, and she is trying to get her first husband to put her kids back on his insurance. Understandable. But then she told me, “I texted my first ex husband and asked if he would pay the cell phone bill for the kids.” Seriously!??? Him not seeing his kids and paying an ass load in child support isn’t enough? Use you’re child support to pay for it. You want him to pay your Netflix too? How about your internet? Your gym membership….She got pissed, and told me F-OFF i’m a Dick….I was like whooooahh woman. You don’t talk to me that way, you don’t ever call me a name, that’s probably why you’re divorced twice. I was just trying to be a friend, and maybe I was being a bit of a dick, but to yell at me?? Maybe i’m just hypersensitive because of my ex. But still. I’m not putting up with that crap from a relationship, or a friend, or anybody.
YOu teach people how to treat you buy what you put up with.
Wow….thanks for reminding me of another reason I moved to another city to escape.The name calling was unreal.I could never get how a “spouse” could call their mate derogatory names and call you a big s#^k if you objected.
Also,there is another term out there that you can use (I use it all the time!!)
Dr T…where are you? Hypervigilant.
You are not alone Mudbone 25
Yea…Covert Abuse Pt One…….Dr T deserves the medal of honor for writing the article for sure.
sigils_ciphers –
Only you can make the call, but couple things stand out. “Poor Little Me” / “I’ma Victum” stories automatically make me think BPD now. My ex piled that sh*t on, lookin for me to be her rescuer / future sponsor / sympathy giver. Sounds like your girl is doing the same. Entitlement- to your money, all of it. My ex acted like it was her place to tell me how to spend/not my disposable income. Regardless that we didn’t live together, regardless that she knew jack sh*t about investing, regardless that she had zero savings. Constantly needs attention / fears of abandonment. My ex freaked out if I took a nap, made her emotionally insecure. Constantly had to be her personal entertainer, constantly giving her affection to calm her fears of abandonment. The next two things alone would cause me to bail – the queer lever & the no friends. Using her confused sexuality against you is kinda hypocritical. I personally want a girl who’s real clear about her attraction to one man. No super complicated artsy fartsy socio-sexual “struggle” bs to deal with. That just makes her… unqualified to be my partner. And… a girl with no friends, or ability to value other people as friends… also unqualified to be my partner.
Read everything you can – check out the index here on S4M and read anything that sounds interesting- it will put your head right.
Got the phone call from the ex at work today. She’s not happy about me ignoring her phone calls. She had an emergency last week and I didn’t answer the phone.
Her car broke down, and she needed me to get my little girl, and she had to borrow a friends car, so she had to go get her car, and blah blah blah. Well, if your car broke down then how did you go get your friends car? She didn’t have an answer for that…she just said nevermind.
She went on and on about how’s I’m not nice, and I’m mean, and I’m this and that. Guys, seriously, I’m very polite, I’m never mean. I dont’ communicate about your girl on and on. anyway, she got frustrated and finally hung up.
1 minute later she called me back crying, She is having a hard time, and she is struggling. Told her I was sorry she was struggling. of course as you can all guess she said,”NO YOU”RE NOT YOU DON”T CARE, I’ll talk to you later (no you wont)..booo hooo..and so on.
then got 3 more useless e-mails about crap, crap and more crap. I’m guessing she really hates my boundries.
I’m looking forward to part 2 of the article. Dr.T you have helped me so much, and so many other guys out there. I thank you from the bottom of my heart.
Oh, and JPJ thanks for listening brother. I hate all this for my little girl, but she’s Histrionic, all the symptoms are there, with a little bit of narcissism sprinkled in for the added annoyance.
Not a problem Mudbone25.
You are making the effort to save your life and move on from being
a doormat.
There are back articles,as I suggested before that you should get into on Dr T`s
site here.
Go for it.
Seek and you shall find
Please excuse my poor English, but my mother tongue is German. So to be honest, this article maybe saved my life (literally!).
Thank you very very much! I met myself in 24 out of 25 points…..
My relationship last 4 years (honestly we had 6 break-ups)…
She was first the perfect sex bomb, has 2 kids and every guy in her life abused her she said. I was out of another relationship and she came into my life…..now: 4 years later I was really thinking of suicide, despite I am a normal person with hobby, great job, house, good friends….a nice life.
I read every homepage dealing with BDP in German, but they didn´t help me at all. I found shrink for men and read EVERY article. But this one helped me the most. Thank you very very much!!!!
Oh my. You have just described my relationship with my Wife perfectly. This is quite frightening. Now what? I have a 5 year old child and have absolutely no idea what to do next. I believe my wife is also cheating and may have been cheating throughout most of my marriage. Tons of red flags, gut feelings. I have no idea who she is or what she is capable of.
Thank you for this great site.
I know all NPD’s are different and can exhibit differently. This article describes a lot of the steps of my 13 year relationship with my wife. The only difference is that she never gets jealous of me going out with friends. She says I need my guy time. I even meet my brother for a week of Snowboarding in Tahoe once a year, and she seems cool with it. Although she does bring it up to justify some of her actions. I thought this made her cooler then some of my friends wives who didn’t like them going out.
I think she just has other ways of controlling me.
Wow. I’m going through the exact same thing but from a man. Reading this made me tear up. It’s absolutely disgusting. I do feel bad for you men out there to have to go through this as well. It’s revolting.