A gentleman sent a link to the cartoon below and it got me thinking. Wouldn’t it be great if high-conflict people (HCPs) and abusive personality disordered individuals (PDIs) came with warning labels?
What kinds of warning label symptoms and side effects should your abusive, high-conflict and/or personality disordered wife, girlfriend, husband, boyfriend or ex had glued to their foreheads?
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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knotheadusc says
My husband’s ex wife’s warning should have “Having children with me will lead to your becoming nothing more than a sperm donor with a wallet. Any women you date or marry after me will be considered home wrecking whores, even though I will ultimately be the one to divorce you. I will alienate the children from you and anyone who dares to side with you. You will be considered a deadbeat dad who doesn’t care no matter what you do to be a good father. Marrying me will lead to your financial ruin. Prolonged exposure to me will lead to a loss of common sense and self-determination.”
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Or, you could shorthand it to, Warning: Run away as if your a$$ was on fire!
“Prolonged exposure to me will lead to a loss of common sense and self-determination” is spot on in many cases. The damage they do by constantly undermining their target’s self-esteem and questioning of their sanity and judgment is especially toxic.
LT Greenwald says
NO KIDS AND I’M OUT. I DID IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And I ain’t going back. Any time I think about it or feel depressed I look at this site. It reminds me that I can’t go back, it will never get better.
Thanks Dr. T. You are the Harriet Tubman of abused men!!!
Cousin Dave says
Congratulations! Don’t kid yourself, it’s going to be tough for a while. But after a bit it starts getting easier. You’ll start appreciating how you can make up your own mind about things and not have to censor your every thought. How you can go places and not have to check in every fifteen minutes. How you can spend a little money on yourself and not worry about reprisals. How you don’t have to play peacemaker all the time. How you don’t have to give yourself up. You were a smart man to get out of that without kids. No contact from now on. Onward and upward!
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Roger that, Cousin Dave.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Thanks and good on you, LT Greenwald!
I once told a friend I’m operating an underground railroad of sorts for men and “teaching the slaves to read.” In other words, to educate themselves about the situation they’re in and to free themselves from abuse.
B Experienced says
Dr T:
It is so very true what you do. The only difference is that you hide in plain sight!
joesixpack says
WARNING! Explosive when exposed to reality! Maintain high levels of denial and cognitive dissonance to maintain a semblance of stability
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Reality is a trigger for many of these individuals as are truth (objective NOT subjective) and being held accountable. Kaboom.
joesixpack says
The push-back and anger that my ex used to give me when I would try to point out the obvious was always very disorienting. She would use anything she could to deflect reality; anger, tears, manufactured crisis, and just plain shouting the same lies louder. She had a whole toolbox of tactics. There was always a component of emotional blackmail to it as well, of course.
Sadly, because of our child I’m still forced to deal with her on a regular basis. On the upside, I’m getting better at reading her, and the emotional blackmail doesn’t work.
For example, if she’s feeling vulnerable over custody issues (meaning that she’s getting herself into a situation where she feels I’d have a good chance of winning full custody in court), she starts to attack my parenting (generally that I’m not buying him enough clothes). Mostly she’s troubled that my son’s grades and behavior in school have been exceptional since I got primary custody.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
I think the fact that your son is performing better academically under your care speaks volumes. You would think she’d be happy the boy is doing well. I’m not surprised, but am always taken aback by how many of these women begrudge their children’s accomplishments and well-being especially when they have nothing to do with it. Instead of being happy for his accomplishments, she’s more focused on how it might make her look like a bad parent. Pathetic.
B Experienced says
The men in the B’s are no better. My Father told me when I got a 90 in Science one time in Grade School that I wouldn’t be any kind of a Scientist. Guess where my interests and natural abilities lie? I missed Valedictorian by 2 grade points. The Val had a 98 average in Grade School, and I had a 96. The Salutatorian had a 97.
I graduated in the top 10 people from my High School . The total amount of people in the graduating class that year was around 365. I never really tried my best at either Grade School or High School either because of being put down by him at home. Sometimes anxiety got in the way because of my Father.
I never thought I was that bright either; yet evidence, teachers and testing proved otherwise in all of the schools I attended. Neither did my brother. I went to a college after High School and aced that as well easily. I then got readily accepted into a University for a 7 year program that was number one in all of the States with a reputation for turning out excellent medical people at that time. My Father was very jealous over all of this. He would even ask me if I was flunking out yet in university; yet there was never any grounds to suggest so.
He did feel very good though when it was suggested to him when my brother and I were in Grade School that he sent us to schools with accelerated or gifted programs because we were often bored and weren’t challenged enough by a regular school. Why? Because they said “HIS CHILDREN”. Therefore, he owned part of OUR smarts and OUR abilities. I remember how he beamed over this. He used to say HIS kids were bright. Not only were we embarrassed, we knew what he meant. However, when he started to feel his own inferiority real or imagined, we then had our intelligence trampled on.
When my brother started developing Schizophrenia, he started getting B’s. My Father got in rages that you could here at the end of a lengthy avenue because he was wasting the teacher’s time by getting B’s, yet he was in the prodromal phase of Schizophrenia. I still feel heart sick when I think of this for my brother. At age 12, I kept on insisting that something was very wrong with him. My brother was too afraid to tell my father about his inability to not be able to integrate starting at age 14 because of how insane he got. He literally suffered in silence until age 22 when he had his first psychotic break from the illness and his secret was no longer containable.
Is there any sane premise for any Cluster B to be allowed to be a parent? I know not. I honestly don’t believe that if we weren’t given the natural abilities that we were at birth that we wouldn’t be as well off as we are now. We were able to save ourselves and each other.
LT Greenwald says
Is there any sane premise for any Cluster B to be allowed to be a parent?
No, no, no…. and the Catholic Church would want me to stay with her. I’m strongly considering atheism.
B Experienced says
Hi Lt.
As fate would have it, that is exactly how Atheism began for me. Many years ago, I was Agnostic and then turned Christian again only because I didn’t have enough information in the sciences to free myself at that time. After I did hard time working for the Catholic Church for nearly 7 years and had to leave because a nutcase Priest came after me, I then had the time to study science. In a way the Church did me one big favor I am forever grateful for. During that time, I had the opportunity to talk with priests who studied in Rome as well as Jesuits, and even they couldn’t satisfy my discontent and apprehension with the apparent pseudoscience in the Bible because of it’s obvious contradictions and clear psychotic thinking at times.
I then studied Judaism, Islam and the Protestant Bible as well. Then I sought each of them out and spoke with them. I saw their beliefs as nothing more than man made beliefs passed on as indoctrination systems with fantastical ideas at times. I found it no different than any other lore that I studied in my Anthropology classes. Nor was it any different to me when speaking with my sibling who has Schizophrenia when psychotic, yet these people were acceptably viewed as being sane even though they had obvious fantastical ideas grounded in no reality we now know or that science can back up along with other disorganized thinking on a grand scale. Sometimes it was very infantile and naive at best, and they were regarded as having great minds or faith in their communities.
After 7 years of studying what I needed to in Biology, Physics, Astronomy and, Genetics, on top of my theological endeavors, I could no longer find any viable reason for me to sanely believe there is a God as we are taught it to be. When studying the Cluster B’s, I could see the correlation between them and God as well.
I certainly made a great effort to understand and satisfy every question I had before I gave up what I consider to have been my delusion.
You wouldn’t be the first to become an unbeliever after or during a Cluster B relationship either because it becomes glaringly obvious that they are much like how we are taught God is at times as well as how contradictory and unrealistic the demands of trying to understand and apply theology is.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
True, BE, the male version of this kind of Crazy can be just as toxic and damaging.
You ask, Is there any sane premise for a Cluster B to be allowed to parent? Personally, I wouldn’t let many of them take care of a plastic cactus much less a child or a vulnerable adult.
B Experienced says
Dr T:
I don’t think it could get any lesser than a plastic cactus!
gooberzzz says
My dad left me at a young age, so I was left with my mother and a half sister 15 years older than me. They can’t help but begrudge the accomplishments of others. No one measures up. I grew up with this. It’s to the point, I tell them as little as possible. No contact with my sister.
It doesn’t matter how much evidence you have to the contrary, in their minds, once a loser, always a loser. Make one slight mistake and your entire character is judged on it, for life. Constant shaming and smear campaigning. If I express how hurtful that is, it’s that I’m too sensitive, and that I need to get over it. Any accomplishment I do achieve, they try to weasel credit for. It IS pathetic.
As an adult, I never attracted to a partner that would honor, or celebrate my accomplishments, as I was willing to do for them. I attract to people with personalities of my family…text book stuff I know. I live single now, and don’t have much desire to partner with anyone, but it sure makes my successes seem empty.
Coming from a male that was raised by strictly women, I strongly encourage men to fight to be a part of their son’s life. They will thank you later for it. If not by saying it, than by how emotionally stable they are as adults. The worse thing a man can do is leave their son(s). No one is going to step in and care about them as much as you can. No one.
LT Greenwald says
Well said, Gooberzzz, I was extremely lucky that my dad fought tooth and nail to be part of my life. No matter how evil my mom was toward him. I treasured what little time I had with him.
You will find someone who loves you for you. The Cluster B’s make up such a small portion of the population. Don’t give up. He or she is out there, in spades. People are generally good. Try dating someone who isn’t your “type.” You might like it.
B Experienced says
Gooberezzz,
Bingo! You got it. I remember one time our family dog took a bite out of me. My Father then said that animals didn’t like me. Talk about grandiosity and creating catastrophes! They are the finest examples of all of the cognitive errors that I can think of rolled into one. It wasn’t often that I didn’t feel apprehensive and ambivalence about what he had to say. Another time he said that a black woman who was my favorite teacher may have put poison in the hotdogs she gave us at a picnic at her house when I said that it looked like bits of cheese were in them. The paranoia in BPD is yet another convoluted serious crazy factor in it. This was in the sixties and in a place where racism was very high. I remember feeling very hurt and sorry for her. I knew he was the looney one, and she was a very good woman even in the 5th grade. My only question was what kind of looney was he. He didn’t stop me from liking her, and I became her Class Secretary! It all boiled down to me liking her more than him so she was under fire. He just picked what he could to try and thwart me from liking her and used the racial tensions and popular myths during those times and wove them with his own pathology to try and do it.
My Mom stayed because it was what her religion and society held as a good moral at that time. The shrinks at that time also told her and my Father that if they divorced or one left that it would forever change their children in a bad way too because they said divorce scars the children in a bad way for life! Yet, I hungered for it. Sad, pathetic, but all true. My how times have changed. That is why I always listen to the reasons why people stay in these relationships first. Most people think they are doing good by staying in some way. Duty and people’s sense of obligation can be very hard for some people to get away from as well. My Mom was a good woman and Mother who was misguided by the moral leaders of her times. She just thought she had the right answers and trusted the wrong people.
I naturally detached and built my own world. I naturally found this repulsive and gravitated away from it. I think some people have to work a little harder at it though which I can respect at times because we aren’t all cut from the same cloth.
I hope that you will find people to share your joys with because it is very important to connect in this way and a large part of being human. Don’t let any B take this from you because they will still have power and control over you in this way as well. It isn’t worth it.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
It all boiled down to me liking her more than him so she was under fire. He just picked what he could to try and thwart me from liking her and used the racial tensions and popular myths during those times and wove them with his own pathology to try and do it.
What you describe above also plays out BIG TIME in cases of parental alienation.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
That’s awful, gooberzzz. I’m sad and angry your family treats you this way.
Many of these individuals are pathologically jealous. Any accomplishment or success you achieve they believe/feel diminishes them. If something good happens to someone else, in their minds it means something good isn’t happening to them. I believe this why so many of them are hellbent on tearing down others — especially smart, talented creative types. They want to destroy the qualities in others that they would like to possess themselves.
TI85 says
Are there warning signs that we can observe? Are we capable of observing them?
I’ve recently discovered this website and, sadly, it feels like home. My marriage is more work than I ever thought it would be, and I can’t tell if I should have seen this coming. My wife’s behavior now is not the same as it was when we were dating — in fact, it’s quite the opposite. Before we were married, she was uniformly cheerful and happy.
After we were married, her cheerfulness waned — at least at home. At work or otherwise in public, she maintained the same outward happiness that had attracted me in the first place. But when we would get home, it was apparent that she was bottling some frustrations, and our time alone was characterized by emotional meltdowns, usually over things that would otherwise be completely insignificant. In my weariness from observing her put on a happy face for the outside world and then consume most of our private time lamenting things (or expressing ugly anger towards people), I once asked her “why are you crying about that?” in what could rightfully be characterized in a not-so-supportive way. Ever since, there has been a lot of anger thrown in my direction, all about little stuff. And incessant nagging. And rare sex (not none, but can-count-on-one-hand-in-a-year). This would lead to fights (something that she “never thought would happen in her marriage”), and my behavior would revert to the worst aspects of my personality — including the yelling and name-calling that I grew up with. When we discuss that anger (alone or in counseling), from her perspective, mine is simply wrong and must stop, but hers is justified because she has lost trust in me.
I’ve done the counseling, and I can actually say that I’ve made measurable progress in stopping the behavior that she considers absolutely wrong (and it’s not like I’m choking it down, either . . . I actually don’t feel compelled to do it). However, when I’m around my wife I still feel crazy more than I feel sane, and my home life is very often a bigger chore than my job. It’s like a runner’s high — I know I’m getting good practice at being a calmer and better person in the face of adversity, which is useful in other areas of my life. But it sure would be nice if I didn’t have to subject myself to the exercise all the time. Or maybe I’m just thinking that my practice in this area shouldn’t be the purpose of my marriage. Which is what it seems to be these days.
Aside from having better self-esteem before I got married so that I wouldn’t have been taken in by the happy-face, was there anything else I could have done to see this coming? I ask because, even though I’ve read this and I know the doctor’s advice will be that this is not entirely my fault — and reasoned thinking dictates that result as well — I still *feel* like my marriage is something that I have earned and need to bear. (Which, incidentally, is not the same feeling I had a few months ago . . . then, it was complete and utter faith/hope that I could do something, even if it was just for myself, that would make or help her come around) (but that doesn’t seem to be happening).
Ack. I’m rambling now.
They don’t wear stickers. What should we be looking for? Or do we just have to know that, when we feel hostile, agitated, suicidal, that we should just get out?
And how do I reconcile that knowledge (which I academically know right now) with my feeling (which is telling me to hold on)?
Does that make sense?
LT Greenwald says
TI85,
Brother, your story sounds just like mine! Same exact facts! She was perfect when we dated, but turned into a monster after marriage.
I got out on Saturday after 2.5 years of crappy marriage! It took 2 months to really convince myself to do it. Now it’s done and I feel great about it.
You can do it to. Keep reading this web site. Talk to people you trust. You can do it.
B Experienced says
Lt.
If you lived near me, I would be having a party for you! I will bet your 2.5 years of marriage felt like 50. You have a lot going on for yourself that is good, and I have no doubt that you will find someone normal to love. The best is yet to come because I think that you will cherish her even more because of all you went through.
Just remember to not give in to her and go back for any reason.
LT Greenwald says
Thanks for the offer, B! I already have a bunch of friends coming to visit me. It feels really good.
And I know i can’t go back. I talked to her last nigth on the phone out of obligation and told her it’s over. She doesn’t believe it. I guess she’ll believe it when she gets the divorce papers.
B Experienced says
Hi Lt.
You did the right thing by telling her that you were divorcing her and not just waiting until papers were served. It is important to stay true to healthy morals and stay on the side of right for yourself so you can live with yourself after these relationships and not get yourself into trouble as well. Plus, she can’t use that against you morally or legally. Only talk to her when you legally have to from now on because you morally owe her no more than what you already stated. I hope she doesn’t know where you live. If or when it becomes appropriate to change your phone number, then I would do that too.
I think by having your friends around that you will get the support you need to stay away. Plus your shrink sounds pretty good. If she threatens suicide, hang up and call an ambulance for her. I did that with a Cluster B I knew decades ago. I wasn’t going to be roped into and accused of that trashy mess, and I didn’t even know what a BPD was yet. I just knew evil when I saw it. Start writing everything down now so that you have a case for harassment and stalking as well because I believe she is a good candidate and Glen Close in Fatal Attraction just might be her role model and hero from the sound of her. Try not to be alone when you go out and have witnesses around as well as a microphone and camera ready at all times. If I were you, I would go so far as talking to the police to let them know what you are up against. I did this with a stalker, and I felt far safer legally and more in control. A Cluster B is a person that you never want to or should have to deal with alone.
Your soon to be ex is highly narcissistic with no conscience that I have seen. I don’t know if she was married before, but I have noticed that the B’s often place a very special importance on their first husband or wife. They eerily talk about them after they have been divorced and even married again sometimes decades afterwards as though they still have a special relationship or hate them with an abnormal depth that is long overdue of getting rid of. I believe that it has to do with their giant rescuing fantasy, shaky identity along with a hypersensitivity of the word no and not wanting to be shattered or having been shattered. This may make her a little more loonier than her regular lunacy. It is important to know this because her abnormal attachment to you is being broken by you. Anyway, I just got a chill down my spine writing that because of a psycho therapist stalker who stalked me for three years. I wasn’t even a lover and she wouldn’t let me go. It is still a bit haunting and quite bizarre even after 30 years, and I am a highly resilient person so don’t underestimate the damage they can do. Just thwart any harm coming your way that you can.
This is your time now to get your pain healed and weakness’ sorted out and strengthened. Any attempt for her to thwart this is purely selfish and sick on her part and that won’t matter to her one bit either. You have to protect your space and right to do so. Don’t be softhearted about any of this with her either. Turn your compassion inward on yourself now because that is where it belongs.
There are a few good books on stalking on the Internet that you may want to buy. A cop wrote one and DeGavin wrote the other one. They look pretty good. DeGavin has worked with Dr. Park Dietz I believe, so I would feel pretty confident myself with most of Dietz’ work or colleagues.
LT Greenwald says
Good lord, I hope she doesn’t stalk me…. If she hates me so much, why won’t she just let me leave? That’s a rhetorical question…
I am starting to feel more like myself. This is Day 3. Each day has been better than the day before.
She has delusional hopes that we’ll get back together. NO WAY, NO HOW. I have strong will power when it comes down to it. My family was dirt poor and dysfunctional when I was growing up and I made it. I put myself through college, the Army, law school, and I’m back in the Army as a lawyer. I come from nothing, a 20K house on a dirt road in the PA mountains. I earned what I have, and I sure as fuck am not going to let this woman take it from me. No fucking way.
Thanks for the love and compassion. I’ve only begun to allow myself to be angry at the ex. Fuck her.
LT Greenwald says
p.s. My wife is in 110% hoover mode right now. She’s apologized a dozen times, says it’ll never happen again, says we’ll get back to the way it was. BULL SHIT.
And she has no idea where I live. I’m totally off the grid. Fuck her.
Mellaril says
To add a little to what B said, if you have a debit/credit card only you have access to start using if for everything and use it often. Swing into McDonald’s and buy a Coke with it. It provides a great audit trail if you need an alibi. Smile for those security cameras when you get gas.
B Experienced says
Mellaril:
Excellent advice on keeping track of your whereabouts. I always watch 48 Hours and Dateline. I can’t tell you how many times I have seen people cleared of or convicted of homicide because of what you said to do. I always tell people to think more on the side of balanced paranoia when dealing with a Cluster B because of how clever they can be. If it seems like a stretch to a normal person, a Cluster B finds that the way to go.
I remember when I was being stalked the first time and there were no ATM cards to make the paper trails we now have, I used to find a way to mention my name to store clerks and point out the time I was there rather casually when I was alone. If I was going to be knocked off, I wanted someone to know where I was and who I was and the stalker caught.
LT Greenwald says
p.s. I had the same struggle between my logical side and my emotional side.
My logical side told me to GET OUT two years ago, but my emotional side told me that her abuse was my fault and that I was duty-bound to stay. Only through therapy have I understood that her abuse is not my fault. And my emotional side has reconciled with my logical side. I was emotionally damaged by my mother and I essentially “married my mother.” Both women were/are bottomless pits of need.
Btw, I score in the top 1-10% on logical reasoning exams — SAT, LSAT, bar exam — but I’m in the bottom 1% in emotional reasoning… until recently. It’s okay. It’s a process. The sooner you get out the better…
Jason says
A marriage is never more important than the individuals within it. Maybe like some of us, you were emotionally immature and inexperienced when entering your marriage, being abused, treated badly to the point of considering suicide (or dreaming that she would die) or having your spouse withhold intimacy and affection then it’s time to leave. Period.
Marriage is not meant to be a trial. As people, we may do things to get us into trouble, but that doesn’t mean we surrender the right to extricate ourselves from that trouble.
I knew the day I got married that it was a mistake. However, due to religious convictions and my wife genuinely trying to be a better wife and person, we persisted. I convinced myself that our marriage was okay, but it wasn’t. The lack of genuine emotional and physical intimacy took a very real and very serious psychological toll on me for twenty-five years. It changed me in negative ways. It contributed to me losing a job due to me channeling my frustrations into dealing with my bosses at the time.
To be blunt; if you hold you, it will destroy you.
SineNomine says
…and doused in Red Flag eau de parfum!
B Experienced says
SineNomine–or with bands on their legs like birds who are tagged for scientific purposes that have location devices and emotional monitoring systems so that when they lose it someone can pick them up and bring them into a lock down facility.
Dr. F says
Mine would be wearing a sandwich board to accommodate the following warnings:
“Keep out of reach of children. Extremely flammable. Avoid contact with eyes and skin, wash hands after use. Remove or cover fish tanks. Pressurised dispenser.
Comes with tool-box which includes:
-Pliers for extracting and removing moments of joy.
-Hammer for nailing shut ‘Window to Intimacy’.
-Monkey wrench for tightening bolts on front door leading to real world.
-Cable cutter for telephone leading to real world.
-Cell phone scrambler for disruption of other friendships.
-Spanner for loosening bolts on ‘Reality Chamber’.
-Vice for testicle maintenance.
-Wire clamps to maintain permanent scowl and ‘V’ shaped frown.
-Bunsen Burner to burn bridges of friendships, letters and photo collection.
-Tweezers and tyre pump to extract and inflate partner flaws.
-Crane and industrial vacuum compressor to extract and shrink personal flaws.
-Onion infused tissues for instant tears.
-Megaphone backup in case tissues run out.
-Oven to keep warm a cake for the Devil in case he shows up.
-Axe to split all friendships, and family bonds.
-Hedge clippers to maintain personal growth.
-Tie-on mouth muffler to curb moments of laughter.
-Araldite for personal earmuff sealant.
-Lock pick kit for ‘Harmless Vault of Secrets’ and micro film storage unit.
-Inward directed mirrored sunglasses.
-Personal Jet-pack for ‘Accountability Encroachment Emergency’.
Active Ingredients:
– Hysteria Butoxide 120g/kg
– Extra-Marital Fornicatia 120g/kg
– Emotia Scaldia/Freezaria 130g/kg
– Untruthpheranin Publicatermide 190/kg
– Violentamin Practicernian 180g/kg
– Walletern Opernium 140g/kg
– Victiminia Inventoxide 120g/kg
First Aid:
Seek medical attention to ensure poisoning does not occur by way of avoiding relationship with sandwich board contents on all levels.
B Experienced says
Hi Dr. F:
I don’t know where you live, but perhaps you might try out as a writer for Saturday Night live. My guess is that it is a country that was or is under English influence. I love the language and patterns!
I am beginning to think that the Cluster B’s do run on an autistic spectrum that is now being theorized because they are the same where you are too which sounds like it is half way around the globe from where I am. Scary if you think about it. They are like some type of Pod People who pop up all over the globe. I wonder if the Pygmies or Head Hunters of Borneo have their hands full with a Cluster B or two and what their remedy is for it.
LT Greenwald says
That is really briliant comedy! Great Job, Dr. F!
Cousin Dave says
Dr F, that was great!
Dr Tara Palmatier says
This is priceless, Dr F! I’m still chuckling.
creek music says
Your comment regarding pliers to extract moments of joy is right on the money.
The way I explained the same feeling was:
“she could take the joy out of the Second Coming of Christ”
Dr. F says
G’day B Experienced,
Yep, gave myself away there eh ?
Thanks for your kind words re, SNL. Contributing material for them would have me all a giggle and rubber framed glasses would be needed for my expanding head for sure.
As far as Cluster B’s are concerned, yes we have them here to such an extent I suspect the good lord strapped himself into a crop duster and sprayed them all over the land. Dunno why really. Maybe he thought they might keep the bugs away from the Apple trees ?
Rest assured, if I can use the word “rest”, but I suspect you are on the money when it comes to Pygmies and Head hunters. They have their fair sprinkling of them.
Not only that, but I’ll bet you a sack of tinnies that in days of Yore it was no different.
In ancient Rome they’d have been screeching Latin while stomping about on tiled mosaics in Yak hide Sandals, and in Mesopotamia many a smashed clay goblet would have hit an adobe kitchen wall in anger.
Why stop there, let’s go back further.
I can see in my mind’s eye these pods running under the legs of a Mammoth to advertise a broken heart, or being a victim for not getting a second serving of moss soup from a stone cup ?
I just realised something unsettling.
In the future there will be Cluster B’s wearing space suits and jump boots flying about with anti gravity technology. So even the skies of tomorrow are at risk, not just our homes and everywhere else.
Bloody genes mate I tell you, they spawn like gerbils and live forever like titanium weeds.
Dr. F says
P.S.
Dodgy, rickety, good for nothing genes that have in their very makeup the gift of seduction thus ensuring their own reproduction.
Genes reproducing themselves as though they are individuals with their very own genome ? Wow, I just blew my own mind 🙂
B Experienced says
Dr F
You gave yourself away because in my opinion the people of English influence have a far greater grasp of the English language and are taught exemplary articulation skills. I think a highly competent well rounded education and often times being witty are main goals in societies under British influence as well. Where I live, I always chose the Dr’s who come from this influence because they are better for those reasons. They just don’t know their field they know about other Medical Fields as well on a very competent level. I taught my daughter to study the English writers so that her articulation skills would properly expand as well as her ability to understand others. She naturally started to expand her interests in many areas as well after that too because of how many of them are.
She is being trained in Fine Arts at a university. One of her professors is a master painter from England. She had to bring her one painting home through a snow storm two cities away to fix the hair on one painting because that professor didn’t like the hair because it needed a slight more bit of a curl. It was quite the feat. The other professors would have given her a break. Personally, I find it rather amusing. I still remember her standing at the door with this large picture wrapped up and snow falling off her everywhere while the wind is soaring behind her. I just said that I told you that the English are sticklers on details when you signed on for his course and then broke out in laughter. What a sight! She grew to appreciate this kind of critique, and she was wise to do so.
Itza Sekret says
Aye… fascinating. And would include the ability to teach offspring how to perpetuate the genome….
illwill79 says
I’m new to this forum, but I have have been watching and listening from afar ( love the podcast Dr. T). I have been married for almost 8 years. I have a 14 month year old daughter as a result of the relationship. On the exterior my family is beautiful, but also is dysfunctional. I meet my wife in the military and it was a worldwind courtship.
I would say the first 5 years of the relationship were decent to good. I started to notice signs of possesiveness (I.e she would play a guilt trip anytime I wanted to attend functions without her). I also began to notice that I slowly began to change my life to accomendate her needs. For the record I have never cheated or been abusive. My spouse would get infuriated whenever I was forced to stay late at work.
I love working out and she would always want to plan events whenever I wanted some “me time”. With wasn’t much. I overlooked these things at first then they became full blow temper tandrums (yelling and you don’t appreciate me!). I noticed these things and still had a child with her anyway.
Then things became worse. My wife works, but reminds me everyday that she wishes she could stay at home despite her parents providing free child care. She has no close friends and is not close to her family (telltale sign). Nothing I do is good enough. I work overtime and I’m never home. I don’t work overtime and were broke (far from it).
I am an active father (diaper changes, book reading, park, playing love and care). Nothing is enough. Her actions made me inquire wtf? Was going on and I read her dd214 and she was discharged with bpd. I then went to google which lead me to this site. It was been an appifany. I have tried to leave and she has gone into “Hoover mode” several times. Even her parents are waiting on the inevitible.
The reason why I have stayed is my child. I come from a broken home so it’s really hard for me to pull the trigger. I am still young (32) and Im in excellent condition and turn down advances for attractive women everyday. I feel like a fool for staying this long and I wish I could provide a family environment for my daughter.
She treats me like shit. yells and screams, everything is about her wants and needs. What about my wants and needs? She doesn’t care.
moundbuilder says
What I’ve thought would be helpful in general is if it were possible for me to see at any given moment what the emotional age is of the person I’m dealing with at any given moment. In my imagination, the way it would work is if the adult in front of me suddenly is a 2 year old or a 5 year old or a 14 year old, I think it would help me respond to them better.
ivehadenough says
Lt. Congrats. I have been reading about your situation which is very similiar to mine. I am very relieved you are out. For me the hardest point was after departure. Stay busy. Surround yourself with good, positive people. I have now been out for a year and at times it is still difficult. Stay Strong.
LT Greenwald says
Thanks brother. That’s what I’m doing — I’m blessed with great friends, Army buddies and family. I’ll make it. I can’t go back. This web site has been a godsend.
Congrats on making it a year.
LT Greenwald says
comment removed upon request of LT Greenwald
ivehadenough says
Be careful Lt.,
This is where it starts to get dangerous. From my experiences once the reality of the situation sinks in for her she is going to become quite hateful & hostile. Keep your head down. Communicate with her as little as possible. Cover yourself in all ways possible better than I did. She will get to you in any way possible… personally, professionally, etc. I cant even begin to detail the damage I endured about 60 days after my departure. At that point her persona went from Hoovering just like you describe in your post, to panic, then to toxic hate. This is when the stalking risk begins. For me it was a nightmare. Again… Cover yourself and document very well. The literature indicates that the biggest threat of violence increases after the departure.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
LTG, I agree with ivehadenough.
You have very legitimate reasons to be angry. However, your words are falling on deaf ears/blind eyes. Worse yet, people like your stbx are incredibly talented at twisting your words into weapons to use against you.
I know it feels good to get it off your chest, but please do so with friends or a support person. Trust me, the email you sent her didn’t even make a dent. Did you say anything that isn’t true? Nope, and that’s the problem. The more truth you hit ’em with, the nastier they get.
My best advice is to drop the rope and disengage and maintain no contact or, if that’s not possible just yet, low contact. It may be fun to poke the beast, trust me, I know, but then you just might have to deal with the beast. Never forget, you can’t out crazy Crazy and Crazy has no bottom. Meaning there is no depth too low and never underestimate her capacity for depravity and cruelty.
Also, be careful posting full text emails on the web. That’s how many of the loons find their targets and the support sites their targets use. In fact, I think that’s how Ms. Morelli (“the” PEW) discovered the PEW website.
Btw, you left her first name in the body of your email, which I edited out. For your own safety moving forward, I recommend paraphrasing any future emails rather than posting them verbatim. Remember, you want less Crazy in your life, so don’t leave a trail. Many of these individuals must’ve been bloodhounds in a former life and have mad sleuthing and tech skills (My what big tech skills you have, Crazy! All the better to prey on you, my dearie!)
LT Greenwald says
“You can’t out crazy Crazy.” My dad used to say that about my mom all the time… How true.
Can you delete that post all together? And this one…
I’m only on Day 5 and my emotions are all over the map. I’m doing my best not to act impulsively, but it’s tough to control. It’s a wierd feeling to finally realize that I’m *allowed* to get angry. But just because I can, doesn’t mean I should. Gotta keep my endstate goals in mind at all times.
Dr. F says
Don’t worry about it mate – we get it.
It’s like you’ve won the lottery and you want to jump and sing and whoop all at the same time.
Enjoy it as we vicariously enjoy it with you. 🙂
LT Greenwald says
Thanks Dr. F. Did you leave an abuser as well?
I’m on Day 6 now. I’ve felt a strong range of emotions since I left.
First, I felt relief and pride that I had done it. Then I felt calm. Then elation at the thought that I was out. Then depression at the reality of how difficult the situation actually is. That depression lasted a while, and felt deep. I had zero self esteem. Then I felt some optimism at all the different single women I see and that they all seem to want me to be closer to them. But then I felt confusion at the thought that they might just be vultures circling around their prey. Maybe there’s no such thing as honest sex. Then my heart missing the good times with my wife, but knowing in my head that I should not go back. That it would not be good for me.
She desperately wants me back, which feels good. And she says she knows that she was wrong. And she says she’ll change. These things all feel good to me, like validation. My heart believes it, but my head is saying no, it’s a facade.
This is gonna be a wierd weekend… wish me luck brother.
Dr Tara Palmatier says
Hang tough. What you’re feeling is perfectly natural.
I’m writing a piece on hoovering and will post it on Monday. Surround yourself with friends this weekend and, if need be, surrender your phone and any other communication devices to them.
What feels like hope is most likely wishful thinking. Big difference. You may also be going through something akin to drug withdrawal. Have a friend act as your “sponsor” and let him or her talk you off the ledge if you’re tempted to break No Contact. If all else fails, read your journals. Go through every rotten thing she did and why it took you leaving her to get her to treat you with some kindness.
LT Greenwald says
Dr. T, you’re the best. You and this site are a godsend. I’m soaking this stuff up like a sponge.
I will put you on my list of “charities.” Honestly, your site should get 501(c)(3) status as an “educational institution” in the US and I should get a tax deduction!
I think after this is all over I should help you set one up! I could take you on pro bono, perhaps. I would feel REALLY good about that… Here are the links from the IRS on what it takes to get the tax exemption and for your donors to make tax-deductable donations… it’s very doable.
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=96099,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/charities/charitable/article/0,,id=175418,00.html
http://www.irs.gov/charities/article/0,,id=96210,00.html
Dr Tara Palmatier says
You’re very kind, LT Greenwald. Let’s talk once you’re out of the danger zone and Crazypants is a tiny speck in your rear view mirror.
LT Greenwald says
Thanks Dr. T,
what a nightmare… i’m just exhausted at this point. One day at a time… and I’ve made it to Day 8. I’m proud that I’ve made it this far… from talk to action. i read somewhere that guys going through divorce can lose themselves in their work. that’s my plan for tomorrow. 🙂
joesixpack says
Stick to your guns LT. Here’s some thoughts off the top of my head (I’ve been through some of this myself);
1)Your self esteem is your Achilles’ heel. The single women who are interested in you are a mix of sharks and nice women who are honestly interested in you (and your well being). It’s very hard to tell the sharks from the keepers when you’re at your worst, so don’t jump in the pool until you’ve dome some serious work on recognizing your own self worth. Love bombing is a very effective tactic when you’re depressed.
2)There IS such a thing as “honest sex”, but only with an honest and healthy person. Healthy women enjoy intimacy as much as men, so don’t fall into the trap of believing that “transactional sex” is all you can expect for yourself.
3) Of course your ex wants you back! She was having a great time with you as her whipping boy and enabler. SHE WILL SAY ANYTHING to get you back into the same-old-same-old. There is no lie that she will blush at telling. You are safe in assuming that everything she says is simply her way of getting what she wants. Any truth that comes out of her mouth is entirely coincidental. DO NOT TRUST HER WORDS. She has had ample time to demonstrate how much she values you (and your feelings) WITH HER ACTIONS, and she has done so eloquently over the past two years. Her words are meaningless.
You have gotten out, now STAY OUT! You deserve to be treated better than she is willing to treat you. Let her reap what she’s sown.
B Experienced says
Hi Lt:
I agree with all of the above advice given by the others. Here is mine. Don’t go back with her! She is a narcissist and your self esteem and sanity depends on it. She is like the devil luring you back into Hell under the pretense of having a friendly hotdog roast with marshmallows for dessert. Resist the temptations at all cost. She doesn’t want you anyway. She just doesn’t want to deal with her identity problems and grow up. It is all about her again no matter how you look at it. Think of it as helping her do what she must do to achieve wholeness and sanity by you leaving for good if you really want to help her. Don’t give her any hope either by picking up the phone anymore. You are still taking care of your abusers feelings inappropriately, and you are being far too emotionally generous to her. What about your feelings, hopes and dreams, privacy, personal space, and freedom?
Woman probably are looking at you, I don’t doubt it one bit. Why wouldn’t they be? You sound very nice, kind, bright, you are a lawyer, volunteer, and have proven yourself to have one hell of a backbone when you want to. Perhaps you are good looking as well which is icing on the cake. Maybe you just noticed that they are looking.
Yes there is honest women and sex, plenty of them. Your just destabilized right now, need to adjust and get deprogrammed from her brainwashing and influence. Six days is brief. Don’t forget the abuse. You stated that this happened after therapy started. This is not uncommon and that is why I do not believe in couples therapy when an abuser is involved. It is dangerous.
B Experienced says
P.S.
The question to really ask yourself Lt. is why you would even consider going back to someone who has physically and emotionally abused you? I was engaged to a supposed nice guy decades ago who turned out to be a psychopath with a double life. It was scarier than Hell when I found that out because he was so damn good at it. He punched me in the eye, and I left for good. It shocked me so because there was zero indicator of this ever happening. His loss of impulse control was extremely sudden. When he called me, I told him to stop or the next call would be from the police telling him to do so. He somewhat hoovered until I made legal threats because he couldn’t afford anymore trouble from me. Believe me when I tell you that my tolerance was the limit of just 2 phone calls and one punch. If I did this with a father who was a BPD with Psychopathy you can too.
I will be married almost 25 years to the same man. I found a very good man. It took several years, but I held my ground and did it.
LT Greenwald says
Thanks for the support and insights, B. I feel like my “emotional intelligence” has increased from 10% of my brain to 50% just through reading and posting at this web site. You’ve been especially helpful. I feel like there’s an actual “roadmap” to get out and stay out.
I haven’t picked up the phone when she’s called. I know that her voice would get to me. I can’t do that. I have responded to a couple email, just telling her that we both need to heal.
Part of me feels like I’ve been exposed for how fucked up I really am. But whatever… Who cares? My friends and my family and my chain-of-command care about me and thats what matters.
Work matters to me a great deal. My big boss walked into my office today and asked how I was doing. He’s told me that he thinks I’m doing the right thing. The Army gets involved with family business, so you can get them involved yourself or let the wife get them involved. I didn’t want them finding out about the situation by getting a false police report or lying call from my wife. So I chose to do it on my terms. I’ve seen dozens of investigations about situations like this and usually is the party that reports first wins. My immediate supervisor has known me for 4 years. He got us a wedding gift. He has supported the hell out of me for 4 years. He knows that I’m a combat veteran and dealt with issues from that experience. He knows that I’m in counseling and supports it 110%. There’s mutual respect. I get my work evaluation next week and I know it will be good. I’ve done a good job. I need that approval. And both of my bosses are like father figures to me. I’ve had many father figures in the Army and I’ve kept in touch with most of them. Literally go to combat with someone as your leader is as close to a family as it can get. My leader from my first Iraq deployment has been my best advisor in my current situation. He advised me to get out and stay out. He’s been married 20+ years and has 2 grown kids and he’s in law enforcement now.
Work has been on my mind a great deal. The Army has allowed me to grow as a person. Since I sought counseling 3 years ago, ever supervisor I’ve had has supported me 110% and I’ve gotten more challenging assignments and stellar evaluations. The Army is a lot more fair that my mom was (and wife is), that’s for sure! And I’m sure the private sector is too…
Anyway, I’m rambling… I’ve soaked in all of your advice and it means a great deal to me. Thanks for caring.
LT Greenwald says
p.s.
I actually AM quite physically attractive. I remember when I was a senior in college, someone put a picture of me on “hotornot.com” (as a joke) and I got rated as a 9.9. I was kind of shocked. I work out almost every day (great for my mental well being). Another great thing about the Army, btw. I have great hair and a strong chin.
I don’t “feel” like I’m all that attractive. I feel like a woman is doing me a huge favor if she even talks to me. It’s pretty ridiculous really! I had a gorgeous 21-year-old college senior hit on my yesterday and was shocked by the whole experience. She just came up to me and started talking. I was totally shocked… Ha, she was probably shocked that I took the time to talk to her! What a mess………….. I look around now and see single women EVERYWHERE! And they all smile at me. It’s scary! Some girl at work tricked me into giving her a racquetball lesson Monday. I’m going to have to come up with a clever excuse to get out of that… and in the future AVOID those situations altogether, unless it’s someone I actually want to spend time with, of course.
Anyway, dating at 33 will be a lot easier (and harder) than at 23 or 28. I’m a lot wiser, and I know my worth now. I’m a guy with a good job who wants a wife and kids and white picket fence and a long weekend in Paris and a Mediterranean cruise. Rambling again…. Thanks again for all the great guidance.
Anway,
B Experienced says
Lt:
The kind of help your soon to be ex really needs is a Psychiatrist with a prescription pad and a solid sense of right and wrong who isn’t a pushover. If they have to calm someone like her down with meds before they can work with them, what are you going to do? Your love doesn’t even have a band aide effect anymore, it isn’t and never was the real solution, and she isn’t worthy of having your love because she abused you. I don’t believe in rewarding a Cluster B abuser with the love of the one that they abused. The loss of the ones love that a Cluster B has abused has to be part of the payoff because they will never acquire the inner shift that is needed to end their abuse. It is more than degrading to ask the abused one to lower their standard to help their Cluster B abuser as well. Where can anyone maintain and define a clear boundary or establish any real dignity and self respect if you return love to them? I clearly don’t see one. If a normal person does something that was abusive or wrong, they self correct and don’t repeat. If it is bad enough, they naturally suffer from their actions and realize that they have to earn their way back and/or accept the losses from it.
The Cluster B’s learn very slow, and they have so many defenses ingrained in them that oppose their exposure and growth that it isn’t optimistic to even begin to believe that they will fully and really change permanently. There is scientific evidence to really wonder if they really can fully and permanently change because of some of their neurobiology. The only safe bet is to leave and stay away with them.
Now is the time you really need to start protecting yourself from her potential stalking. She has physically abused you so this can escalate. She has spoken psychotically about it too. She said that she hits you because her father left. This isn’t good in any man’s language and it is a major clinical red flag. If you left her an email, then leave it at that. You have to have a starting point where you have made it perfectly clear that anymore contact will be considered harassment. You don’t have to tell her it is harassment either. It is her responsibility to get in touch with the real world and learn the laws that govern it. It is her job to totally change or modify her behavior to obey the law as well.
If you keep giving in, you are legally weakening your own case and self esteem. Start logging her contacts. You will be taking the lead and redefining the purpose of her contacting you. This is empowering and it will refocus your mind away from her hoovering attempts because your weak spot is being continually exploited by her many attempts to try and hook you back in. You need all the good avoidance tactics you can get.
She has threatened to destroy you in the past so be on your best behavior and discuss this with your lawyer and therapist. Don’t disregard this threat. It is emotional blackmail. Try not to be alone and make as many random purchases that you can as Mellaril has previously stated so that your whereabouts has physical evidence for proof.
Dr T is right on when she said that these people have very astute ways of finding their prey’s whereabouts and dealings. They are paranoid individuals who will go to great lengths to prove that they are so called right or get what they want. This kind of paranoid is a tricky beast because they can present something with a grain of truth in it or not and garner a lot of support because it is hard to tell what is true. People have a tendency to automatically decide and take sides when suspending judgement, the need for critical thinking and reality testing is the right course to take. This is what you need to look for and ward off or counter attack legally as well.
LT Greenwald says
B,
I know I’ve probably only seen the “tip of the iceberg” with her behavior. I just have to make sure I don’t become the Titanic. I’ve heard some unbelievable first- and second-hand stories from my male friends about the things a scorned woman can do to hurt her mate. Only my supervisor and my family know where I live. And I’ve warned my office secretary that if my wife comes into the office she is to say that I’m not there and then warn me, so I can lock my door and call security.
I know it’ll only get wierder, whether I like it or not… I can only control my actions and do my best to protect myself by documenting her actions.
Thanks again for your very practical advice.
B Experienced says
Lt.
Bravo, you are planning ahead with real plans. I would be so humiliated if I was your wife, not that I would ever do the things she does or even think of them, that I wouldn’t even be out from under the rock I crawled under yet. What she did to you is something that would take me my whole life to forgive myself for, and then I probably wouldn’t be able to fully forgive myself.
This scenario of her going to your office is part of her narcissism and it’s stupidity; especially given your profession and who you work for. She is a fool because she doesn’t even know what and who she is up against! All narcs live in their own constructed world that doesn’t have much to do with reality. Narcissism is their weakest point and your greatest ally.
Her other big problem is her psychopathic behavior. She has a consistent core of being reckless, heedless, disregards our norms and laws of society very easily, highly impulsive and lives too in the present moment. She doesn’t think about anything else than gaining power and control during those episodes, and she doesn’t learn from her mistakes. Her raging and anger are insane, and it is easily triggered and hyper reactive. Her behavior controls are obviously very poor. She paints herself as one big victim just about all of the time, and pathologically lies. I don’t see anything other than I am sorry that I got caught with her. Her tears and pleading aren’t about you and are not truly remorseful because she hurt you. She is sorry that she got caught for herself, and she is masterfully displaying it otherwise. She can live a double life very easily. She is anti abuse at work and the abuser at home without connecting the dots. This appears to be for appearance sake, and it is probably a vicarious way for her to garner rescues by rescuing others at work. Yet another element of her screwed up values and twisting defense that is near psychotic. She instigates and provokes until harm is done to her, such as physical fights with strangers in public because she has to have the power and not be a victim in her mind. She is a masochist as well. If you can pick up a copy of Dr. Robert Hare’s, “Without Conscience”, I think it will help you to understand her empty pleas and develop a new mindset around her hoovering and need to be rescued manipulation ploys too.
I would like to suggest if you haven’t already, and since you are under such heavy stress, that you make an appointment with your doctor to get a physical and make sure that your vitamin levels and other bodily functions that get attacked under such stress are still at their proper functioning levels. It is very good to drink a lot of water under stress providing that you don’t have a water restrictive diet because of medical problems. It helps to flush out the bad affects of stress. Eat very well during this time, avoid junk food and get your proper sleep when you must. Feeling drained from this is a sign of burnout, and it can create havoc on the body, brain and mind.
Although it may sound odd at a time like this, watching comedies, cracking healthy jokes about it and listening to happy tunes that don’t involve lovers other than the song-50 Ways to Leave Your Lover-, boosts your immune system, keeps the serotonin coming and helps to restore and repair the harm done from stress. These islands of fun and peace, help restore your ability to keep coping with this ugly mess as well. You won’t feel so overwhelmed and consumed with the negativity of it all.
One of the major problems after or during a Cluster B is health problems. You want to have a base record with your doctor to prove that all of her crap caused health problems if it did. This is hard to weasel out of in court because it is medically documented. If I could use any real health decline as a reason to lesson the financial burden of having to give her money, I would do it. It helps to get a restraining order if need be too.
LT Greenwald says
She hasn’t made any effort to contact me in the last 48 hours. I’m hoping against hope that she has decided that we’re incompatible and that slitting up is best. But I doubt it… I’m doing my best to mentally prepare for the worst.
LT Greenwald says
Joe, your points are well taken. Since you so neatly numbered your points I’ll give my thoughts on them in turn:
(1) My self esteem is a big problem, I know that. I’m working on that in counseling. Understanding my family dynamics as a child has helped me a lot, to learn that I have to stop blaming myself for everything. The guilt and shame and blame were my parents’ issues, and they projected those issues on me and my sister!!!! My mom was/is BPD and was/is a bottomless pit of need. If case you’re wondering, my sister has had a messed up marriage as well. But she stayed. Her husband is super needy and she’s basically been his live in nurse. She basically “raised” him over the past 8 years. Her advice to me: get the hell out now!!!
(2) I believe I can have honest sex. I know it in my head but not in my heart… yet. I think not getting into bed on the first date, or third date, even, can give me some indications of what’s going on. Women with “daddy issues” who haven’t dealt with those issues are the worst sharks. My wife told me that she dealt with her daddy issues, of course, but that was a total lie. If there was any kind of abuse in the household growing up, I need to avoid her like the plague. I don’t think I have the judgment to tell if a woman is lying to me about whether they really dealt with it or not.
(3) I know she’ll say anything. I know that in my head, but not my heart. I opened an email from her today and it was very positive* and understanding.* (The * means it’s a lie.) But I literally felt my mood raise from a 1 (on a scale of 1-10) to a 6. I went from being horribly depressed, to positive thinking. But I still didn’t think it would be a good idea to go back. I know my self esteem is tied to her stupid love bombs. I know it’s wrong. I need to un-program that part of my brain……
Thanks again for the the tips!
joesixpack says
Self esteem is very important, and it’s good that you recognize that early on. I’d had some trouble with it in the past and had largely gotten over it before I met my abuser.
The Love bombing is how users and abusers make you dependent upon them for your sense of self worth, that way they gain total control over you. Honestly, everyone has self doubt and feelings of worthlessness. It’s part of a normal psyche. Those who don’t experience this are called “megalomaniacs” and “narcissists”. It’s a weak spot for everyone. So, while it’s good to take responsibility for your own shortcomings and your own role in the abusive relationship, you shouldn’t beat yourself up over having the same vulnerability as the rest of the human race.
One of the most important underpinnings of a healthy relationship is the idea of “acceptance”. We don’t expect our partners to be perfect, and we don’t criticize them for every flaw in their character. We accept them as they are because we love them. This is not to say that we should accept that which is unacceptable. Abuse and lying are things we shouldn’t accept. And we should also expect acceptance in return. If we don’t get that, then the we don’t have a true partner.
It’s important to judge ourselves with the same compassion and understanding that we give those who we love. For example, you have friends who are really great people, though they may have some shortcomings or make mistakes. You forgive them because you love them. You should give yourself that same level of acceptance and understanding. Once you start thinking this way you’ll begin to find that your self esteem becomes a lot more resilient.
I hope this makes sense and I hope it helps.
Good luck and stay the course. You’re a lot closer to being well than you realize.
LT Greenwald says
Thanks Joe, your advice means a lot to me. I know my self esteem is tied to her love bombing. She’s a pro at that. Our relationship is/was so primitive, based on power and control. She’s trying to reel me back in. She totally expected me to leave. She thinks this is normal.
I want to have a kids someday and this woman cannot be their mother — that is the bottom line. It wouldn’t be fair to me or the kids. This path is really hard, but it will be worth it in the end. Some day I’ll look back at this period as the time I gave myself a second chance at life.
Cousin Dave says
Lieutentant, I’m glad you’re hanging in there. As Dr. T said, the whiplash of emotions you’re going through right now is normal. You juat have to bear with it for a bit. Anytime it starts to feel like things are getting out of control, find something to distract yourself. Active projects, something you get involved in mentally or physically, work better than passive entertainment. If there’s a hobby or activity you’ve always wanted to try, now would be a good time.
One technique that Cluster B’s will try when they aren’t getting their way with you is to mirror your own behavior back at you. If you’re trying to be emotionally cool and even-tempered, they’ll behave that way too. If you’re trying to do something to improve yourself, and they know about it, they’ll try that too. At one point while I was waiting for our divorce to go through, my ex called me up to tell me that she had a new job that she really liked, and that she was going to start going to school. Now, she never held a job for more than two weeks the entire time we were married, and she never showed the slightest bit of interest in education. She was just trying to mirror my own behavior back at me (I had a good job, and she knew that I had started graduate school). This phase lasted maybe a week.
Your ex will undoubtedly return to her old ways with you once she realizes that her hoovering tactics aren’t working. Be careful. Cover your tracks. You’ve done the right thing keeping your superiors in the loop, and yes, I know how the Army gets involved with its personnel. One other thing I recommend: keep a diary. Account for where you are, and what you are doing, as much as you possibly can, even when you go to bed at night. And make sure that, if your ex pops up somewhere, you do not spend even one second alone with her. You need to have an alibi at all times.
Dr. F says
Yes mate I have left an abuser in the past.
A violent nutter who fits the hysterical model very well.
I felt all of things you are going through right now and one you have to watch out for is the anger. That will kick in at about day 12 or so.
That’s my guess anyway. We’re not going anywhere you know, so batten down the hatches for it as mark my words it will come sure as mushrooms after a summer rain.
I wish you luck brother, and know you’ll be just fine as well.