Marriage can be an extremely beautiful and fulfilling enterprise. However, if you marry an abusive, high-conflict person, it can become a living nightmare. High-conflict divorce is a needlessly excruciating process that leaves many men and women swearing, “Never again.”
Marriage as an institution isn’t necessarily bad. However, dissolving a marriage is a rigged game in which many men are forced to accept highly inequitable and unjust losses. In other words, is marriage the problem or is it the divorce racket?
If you’re not married, what questions do you have about marriage? What are your concerns? What are your fears?
If you’re already married and/or divorced, what do you wish someone would have told you before you said, “I do?”
Did you have doubts before you married? Did you know you were making a mistake? Why did you go through with it?
For those of you who have married and divorced and remarried, what lessons did you learn from your first marriage? Did you use these lessons to make a better choice the second (or third) time around? What advice would you offer men and women who are struggling to end an abusive marriage with a high-conflict spouse?
Counseling with Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD
Dr. Tara J. Palmatier, PsyD helps individuals work through their relationship and codependency issues via telephone or Skype. She specializes in helping men and women trying to break free of an abusive relationship, cope with the stress of an abusive relationship or heal from an abusive relationship. Coaching individuals through high-conflict divorce and custody cases is also an area of expertise. She combines practical advice, emotional support and goal-oriented outcomes. Please visit the Schedule a Session page for more information.
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I wished I had not allowed male stereotype cliches to influence my decision to accept the actions and words my Ex used toward me before and during our marriage.
The very first was her demand, requirement, whatever you want to call it that I let her stage when and how I would ask her to marry me as well as picking out the specific ring she wanted. Instead I should have seen this controling action for what it was and had refused it. Then if she had a nuke meltdown or decided not to marry me because of that I would have known what I was getting into and have run for the hills instead of wasting so many years with such a terrible person.
All I can do now is work to make sure my kids don’t end up with anyone like her while also working to build a new life for myself.
I think Shrink4Men should be required reading for any man considering getting married. The insights I have gained here after I decided to divorce kept me on a focussed path and made me realize I could never take my ex-wife back, both for my sake and for my son’s sake. The abuse and control imposed by an HCP may seem obvious to most outsiders, but when you are mired in the sludge, it is hard to identify for yourself: you can’t see the forest for the trees, as it were. The abusive relationship becomes normalized over time and you accept more & more abusive treatment until you may think that you actually deserve it and you are in the wrong.
Many relatives & friends asked me to reconsider marrying my ex-wife before the fact but I was so swept up in the fantasy of family & kids that I overlooked & excused her obvious faults & nastiness. But when you overlook the first fault, the second, third, etc. faults become that much easier and normal to overlook so that, before you know it, you have accepted & normalized a relationship that is abusive & controlling.
It’s true when people say that any faults you see in a spouse before the relationship become magnified after marriage; it’s also true that having kids cannot fix a relationship, although it can further magnify existing abusive behaviour.
Unfortunately for many men, like myself, we tend to overlook bad behaviour for the greater good, unknowingly contributing to the greater evil in the process. In my experience no amount of coercion by family & friends to end the relationship will help since you may think that their views are subjective & biased, but reading an objective site like this with observable data can possibly tip the scales.
Monk, I know EXACTLY how you feel. Unfortunately. 😉
I’m mired up to my eyeballs right now!
If I only I had known what I was getting myself into, I would have run for my life! 🙁
It sucks on so many levels; I doubt I’ll ever get married again under ANY circumstances. I’m sure there are many decent caring women out there too; but I could never go through this crap again!
And as bad as it is for me; it’s our kids that truly suffer.. Watching HCP wife level the same abuse on our daughter was actually much worse than suffering it myself. Yes; I manned-up and confronted her about it too (she was doing it while I was at work!)– in font of a Thearapist! She broke down wailing in tears when confronted — but never accepted responsibility for her actions.
Excuses! That was that — I bet once I am finally out of the picture HCP wife will lash out at our son or my daughter (again).. I suspect our daughter will leave home as soon as she is able; just to escape HCP hell!
I wish I would have known that there was no way she would ever become secure, that I couldn’t love her into being kind, and that she would only get worse. I also wish I would have listened to the little voice telling me to run like hell when we first started dating instead of being down on myself for fearing commitment.
Amen to that. I had the intuition, and then over time she got me to believe that my ‘doubts’ about her were just my ‘commitment issues’. now i know i do NOT have commitment issues. that my doubts about her were justified and i just didnt know how to trust myself. my own inner self was trying to warn me! And sometimes, when i wouldnt listen, it would be even stronger in my dreams.
I was also only 23 when we met. Prime target for her, she was older. I was a perfect pawn to be told ‘you just dont know anything about relationships…and i do, bc Im older. THIS is what relationships are.’
Luckily now i know that is totally false. I wish I had simply known more and not wasted my 20s with such a manipulative person. I also wish I had known about BPD and the warning signs. I really had NO frame of reference for the CRAZY I was going to endure or see. I never could have imagined anyone could be so awful and delusional.
I can definitely relate to your post. It seems what I’m looking for most in women I date nowadays is knowing themselves, being secure with themselves, being capable of performing basic tasks on their own and acceptability. Sounds simple right? Not so. Now we know that we can’t make them happy. If they aren’t happy before us there won’t be any happiness with us. I’m often teased for still being single at 33 firmly labelled as a commitment-phobe; when the truth is I just refuse to settle for girls posing as women. Again we’re hit with the double standard, if I were a woman I might be applauded but instead I’m shamed? guilted? pfffff- oh well. Happy is as Happy does.
You bring to mind something I’ve recently learned – I can NOT save ANYONE from themselves!
Also, you can NOT love someone to health or enough to make them love themselves, or enough so that they treat you better…
…there are people who will simply suck up all that they can and sprinkle little bits of pretend love your way, then get pissed that you’re not doing cartwheels for it!
Dr. T.
I can share with you the only two things my father shared with me about getting married or dating.
1. “Two most important words in the English language; pull out”
2. “When dating or getting married, look at your potential mates parents…there is an old adage, “the fruit don’t fall too far from the tree.”
David, I don’t mean to sound critical, but I would temper number 2 just a tiny amount.
In my case and others I know about it seems that sometimes the idyllic appearance of the parents is a well-rehearsed façade that they, the parents, took years to build. In my case you would have thought my Ex’s parents were perfect, but it wasn’t until a few months after we were married and I was trapped that I began to be let in on the “family secrets”, which if I had known from the beginning I probably would have run for the hills.
Even when I did find out I stuck it out because I was more willing to accept the lie that it would never be like it was for the parents. Unfortunately it was much worse, which also proves that as bad as it may appear it can always be worse. So looking at the parents can help as you said, but sometimes it requires intense scrutiny to penetrate the façade. Even then it will require a lot of thought to try and connect what you observe in the parents to their child, the person you are serious about because I can guarantee she will implement the craziness in her own original way, which you can never predict.
Just my 2 cents, so as always I can be wrong.
Oh, I understand what you are relaying and yes, it’s true. The facade can be carried out and with great efficiency for years and decades. I still have childhood friends who never saw the PD side of my Mother.
But, in my case, I saw the red flags. I’m not saying it can’t happen but usually, the warnings are there and recognizable. Me, I made excuses. I only saw what i wanted to see.
David:
I find your #2 a little unfair. Maybe it’s true, but my family is crazy, so does that mean I have no chance?
Both parents definitely have issues, but the mother figure has caused the most and longest lasting emotional damage (to me).
I sort of took on the persona closer to my dad’s personality (which I think torqued Mommy Dearest off), so saw myself as somewhat ‘masculine.’ Only years later did I realize that mother’s personality was not the definition of feminine, nor was father’s the definition of masculine.
I have gone through some recovery programs, and recognize mother’s NPD for what it is. However, i sometimes still feel like maybe I’m “marked for life.” Comments like yours from above make me wonder if I’m doomed to relationships with [other] really screwed up people!! 🙁
It’s all in good humor. That’s what my Father said.
The only thing that should make you wonder about your relationships….is you.
LOL @shitmydadsays. Dave, you and I must have the same father!
My personal favorite is, “Why bother getting married? Just find a woman you hate, give her half your money and your house and call it even.”
Here’s another one:
Why was the recession worse than a divorce?
Because I lost half my money and still have my wife!
😀
Nice. “Somebody take my wife….no, really…please, take my wife!”
I retract part of number 2. He said, “The NUT doesn’t fall too far from the tree”.
Past behavior usually predicts future actions. Don’t put your well-being on the line by believing anything different. There are plenty of fish in the sea. People are usually on their best behavior early in the relationship. Eventually, the lovey dovey stuff wears off and people show their true colors. If people physically or verbally abuse you, do yourself a favor and leave them. Also, people make time for people they love. If you are with someone who puts you anywhere but at the top of that person’s priority list, then leave that person and find someone who looks forward to being with you and doesn’t take you for granted.
Kevin typed: “If you are with someone who puts you anywhere but at the top of that person’s priority list, then leave that person and find someone who looks forward to being with you and doesn’t take you for granted.”
Thank you. I needed that.
My biggest downfall was trying to see the good in her instead of her shortcomings. She’s doing the same thing to me that she did with her first hubby…..using the kids in her evil vile plot. Even if she says that’s not how your lives are going to be, its not the truth. Really take the time to get to know her before you say I do. You never know, you could be in it for the love and she’ll start treating you like an employee. You can’t live in a marriage with your head in the sand being abused and methodically ripped to mental shreds.
Don’t think I’ll be able to participate but here are a few comments:
I never married the exgf, she declined my proposal.
Did you have doubts before you married? – I had doubts before asking her. I knew about her abandonment fears. I knew her family had issues. I knew cheating (on her, not by her) loomed large in her scheme of life. She seemed to go out of her way to do things that didn’t make me want to set up housekeeping with her. We had a conversation before I proposed where I told her the only thing that would change if we were married was that I’d be doing the same things I was doing as a single guy but I’d be doing them for the both of us.
Did you know you were making a mistake? – Don’t know if I can say I knew it was a mistake. I knew it was risky. The relationship had stalled. My exgf had correctly assessed my avoidant attachment style and played it as the sole reason the relationship wasn’t going anywhere. It appears she was as avoidant or more than I was.
Why did you go through with it? – I went through with the proposal because I believed that asking her to marry me would demonstrate my commitment. By way of a really bad analogy, we were like a Federation Starship and Romulan Bird of Prey facing off against each other. To get the relationship off rock dead center, one of us would have to blink. I decided it would be me. I dropped the shields, turned off the phasers and powered down the engines. Instead of doing likewise, or even blowing me away, she turned and withdrew without explanation. The only response to my proposal was, “No.” I didn’t escape so much as I was let go. It took another two years for the relationship to run its course but in the end, not marrying me was the nicest thing she ever did for me. For what it’s worth, she married shortly after I did and her marriage lasted ~3yrs. To my knowledge, she never remarried after that and never had any kids.
It is difficult to generalize personal experience, however I’ve found that the most common sign of future discord in any relationship is things being rushed. It wasn’t just my now ex-wife, but our church at the time, and our families.
One very disturbing thing I learned after my divorce was that grandmother (now deceased) had seriously reservations about my now ex. It was her nature not to insert herself into other people’s lives or to be a gossip, so I don’t blame her for not saying anything. I blame myself for not asking for her honest opinion. At the very least to say, “I feel like our engagement is being rushed, what do you think?” She would have told me and our relationship would very likely have slowed down.
Thus, my biggest advice is to introduce your partner to trusted friends, hang out and then ask them for their honest assessment.
Right after we married, I knew I’d made a mistake. I suggested counseling. My new wife freaked. This seems to be another fairly common sign–dysfunctional people generally hate therapists. Many are afraid of being exposed.
Thus, my second advice is to at least suggest pre-marital counseling from a non-ecclesiastical marriage counselor and gauge the reaction.
Jason, that bit about wanting to rush the relationship is a great point. I had only known my ex for a few weeks when she turned up at my door one evening, saying that her father had thrown her out (not true, I later discovered), and she had no place to go. She was in a huge hurry to move the relationship along. I think that Cluster B’s must do that because they know they can’t keep their facade up for very long.
CD: I think you are on to something….it must be tiring to be so ‘fake’ all the time, and they rush so that they can get out of their tight-fitting “Ms. (or Mr.) Perfect” costume, and into their ‘real me’ HCP sweats and stained tank top.
A few years ago, most men had to develop their own perception of marriage and verbalize why it ‘didn’t seem to fit.’ In my case, it was stumbling upon The Spearhead via Linkiest, which then led to the essay “marriage 2.0”, with deeper research into the Men’s Rights Movement following.
Many men are assisted by the groundwork sites like this one, A Voice for Men, Citizen Renegade, In Mala Fide have shown.
btw, I gave a plug for A Shrink for Men on my local (Kitchener, Ont) radio call-in show the other day when I took offense at some female pedestalization being proferred.
I wish I had known about BPD 20 year ago! My controlling, abusive HCP wife exhibits every BCP trait and then some! The signs were all there right from the beginning, I just failed to heed them.
She was so nice in the beginning, the first rage episode seemed surreal; like I imagined it. Then they became more frequent.. How could this be the same person I fell in love with? Nice one minute; then threatens to abandon me and the kids the next!
Sometimes I feel like I’m buried alive, trapped with no way out, and no one to turn to for support. I just feel numb; sick of feeling sick! Tired of being threatened, demonized and humiliated. I had no idea what I was getting myself into. I’ve stuck it out this long for the kids, but now I wonder if that was the best option.
Trust your instincts; listen to that voice inside. I sure wish I had!
(Thanks for creating this site, it’s helped me to truly understand my predicament.)
Straw Man, you are doing no one any good by staying in an abusive relationship — in fact you are becoming an unwitting perpetrator in continuiing the cycle of abuse in your own kids: they are seeing that this type of treatment in a relationship is not only acceptable but normal and will either be the abused or the abuser in their own relationships.
For your sake and your kids’ sake, please leave and accept visitation with your kids no matter how small the amount of time — at least then they will have a safe haven for sanctuary, and you will actually enjoy your time with them, however brief it is.
Funky Monk,
Your comments are (sadly) spot on! Our teenage daughter (herself at times the subject of HCP spouse’s abuse), is already aping her mother’s BCP traits! It’s a no-win situation anyway I look at it. BCP wife’s mother (my mother in law) is hands down one of the nastiest and most sadistic people I have ever encountered in my life. It’s no mystery how these traits get passed down I guess. But it was NOT obvious early on in the relationship; there were signs, in hindsight; but I had no idea what I was in for.
My son is also seeing his mother constantly threaten, demonize and humiliate his father. She is trying turn the kids against me every chance she gets. I am now almost totally isolated from my friends. Any hobbies or interests that I might engage in are ridiculed and derided. Anything and everything I do is inadequate and/or selfish in her eyes! Everything that is wrong in her world is my fault.
Some nights I cringe when I get home and see her car in the driveway, wondering what I’m ‘in for’ when I open the door. The anxiety is overwhelming at times; I feel like a lab monkey that has been shocked too many times during some cruel experiment. She comes across as sweet and caring in public; but in private she is a horrible, nasty shrew! It’s hard to comprehend how she can rationalise the behaviour to herself.
I called her on the abuse last night, told her I was not up for it anymore. Her reply; this is for my “own good” — she is just trying to help me be a better father! She then threatened to abandon me and our kids! Apparently HCP wife wants to draw our family together through threats, humiliation and bullying! This morning she wants to try counselling (yet again) — for *me* because I’m ‘such a jerk’! But by the evening, who knows what spin she will try; probably the silent treatment (tried and true)!
The crazy thing is if the therapist is any good they always zero in on my wife straight away. When that happens the therapist is promptly labelled incompetent or biased and banished forever! The other side is where she manipulates the therapist into believing that she is the victim, she normally needs several visits on her own to pull that off; been there too! 🙁
I accepted that divorce was inevitable over a year ago. I even spoke with my family about it. I’d like to stick it out for a few more years, but I don’t think I’ll make it! I’m her second husband too; guess what happened to husband number one?
Any advice about how to manage this type of person would be appreciated. I know what I ultimately have to do (separate / divorce), but even that will take months at best to sort out. In the meantime I have to deal with the situation on a day to day basis; so any input would be greatly appreciated. (Thank you!)..
StrawMan, it’s sad to hear about all the crap you’ve been going through. But I can certainly relate to it.
The only abuse-reduction approach that worked with my ex-girl-fiend was to physically leave the house. It was almost impossible to have any sort of sane, adult discussion with her because she would quickly devolve to the level of a five-year-old child, full of rage and blame. So I’d simply say “this discussion isn’t moving forward; I’ll be back in a while and I hope you’ll cool down” – then put on my jacket and go for a walk for 20 or 30 minutes.
I must admint that this is not a very efficient way to resolve an issue – sometimes it took the entire evening and five or six walks – but it did work for me, and the break helped calm me down also. Sometimes I’d come pretty close to blowing my own stack with all the ridiculous insults and childish crap coming out of her mouth.
Perhaps the best thing about this approach is that it sends a clear message: “I refuse to accept this behaviour from you.” As time went by, all I had to do was to stand up or reach for my jacket and she’d back off, knowing that I was 100% serious about not sticking around for her abuse.
BTW, only once did she come out and follow me, hissing whispered insults so that the neighbours wouldn’t hear. I calmly said in a normal voice, “What’s with the hissy shit? If you have something to say, come out and say it.” She stormed back into the house. Not surprising, as these crazies rely on secrecy to maintain their stellar public image while they abuse you in private. Don’t bother wondering how they rationalize this hypocritical behaviour; they’re severely disordered and they don’t think rationally the way that we do.
Of course, the best thing is to get out of the marriage as soon as you can, but in the meantime, I hope my experience can be useful to you. – Julian.
That’s pretty much what I do right now; disengage when the abuse starts! Sometimes it works, sometimes she re-doubles her efforts to hurt me!
After the latest confrontation 2 days ago (where I told her she was being abusive and that I was not going to put up with it), she has refused to sleep in the same room with me! She is not really speaking with me either at the moment. Par for the course!
She’s laying on the guilt big time by playing the martyr in front of the kids. I don’t drink, I have never cheated on her, and I have never ERVER been violent in any way. But now she’s treating me like a wife beating, cheating alcoholic; not safe to sleep next to!?
All I did was stand up for myself; calmly but firmly. She started SCREAMING at me “HOW DARRRRRE YOU CALL *ME !!ABUSIVE!!” ..then the nuke meltdown followed!
Thanks for your tips — it really helps to know I’m not the only one dealing with this sort person!
StrawMan, be careful about direct accusations like “you’re abusive” or “you’re disrespectful. HCPs treat all accusations as direct attacks and respond predictably and violently. I’m all for direct and honest communication, but some things just don’t work with HCPs. What worked best for me was focusing on the desired results, for example “I’d like this discussion to move forward” or “we’re not resolving this issue calmly.” You need to stand up for yourself *gently* and not make it a me-versus-you thing.
These people are absolute masters in making you feel like everything you’re not. I’m a pretty hard-working guy, and during one stretch where I had to temporarily do 60-hour weeks at work, my ex-girl-fiend went out and bought a new, larger refrigerator and expected me to tear down a kitchen wall to make it fit. As if I had the time.
The really sick thing is that the old fridge worked fine except in the hot summer months, and this event happened in December. She actually bought a fridge for the express purpose of complaining and calling me lazy for three or four weeks. Doesn’t get more crazy than that.
I hope you can get out of there soon with most of your sanity intact. I’ve been no contact for six months now, and still working on regaining my sanity. – Julian.
You are right about direct communication = attack to HCP! Thinking about it more — it’s NOT a ‘one off’ attack anyway; it’s ingrained in every aspect of the HCP ‘persona’; it’s who they are! So they freak out when confronted directly! I’ll avoid this approach in the future, and focus on removing myself from the situation, taking it for what it’s worth..
My wife truly does not think she is doing anything wrong at all! Through the HCP goggles all is well! This is the way she has spent her entire life relating to the world. There is no single abusive episode, rather a continuum of abusive behaviour that waxes and wanes without reason. At times spilling into full blown nuke meltdowns!
You sound like you have met my wife: “These people are absolute masters in making you feel like everything you’re not.” My does that all the time! She also projects HER negative personality traits onto *ME*, then she attacks me for behaviours and traits that are foreign to me. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not Mr perfect — but she accuses me of yelling at her and being this horrible ogre.. But I NEVER yell at *anyone*, it’s just not my style – I treat others the way I want them to treat me. I confronted her about that and asked “OK, lets ask the next door neighbours who they hear yelling? OK?” ..she did not like that idea! It’s crazy — why do these people project their own negative traits onto others? ,,then rip on them — talk about NO INSIGHT!
Her sister is even WORSE (MUCH WORSE) than she is, and my poor brother-in-law; I truly pitty that man! She comments on how nasty and controlling her sister is, then says “I don’t know where she gets it from I’m not like that..” Our daughter heard that and looked at me rolling her eyes in disbelief!
I love your story about the refrigerator! Sounds all too familliar! I got abused few weeks back because the floor varnish was not shiney enough to facilitate a proper cleaning! I’m not kidding, she thinks I should have whipped out a belt sander and re-finished that floor! ..on the spot! WTF!?
I lost my sanity long ago; what sane person could live like this?
At least you got out; I admire you for that!
In my experience there is no way to “manage” a situation with an HCP other than to leave the situation entirely. And I don’t understand why you are putting off the divorce when you know it is inevitable: the sooner you do it the better, although it looks like you have been suffering in your situation for far too long already.
In my experience divorce was a hellish road to travel but, once you have completed the journey, the ultimate destination is heaven-like and you will wonder how you survived your years in hell, and will never wish to return. Clarity can only truly come when you are separated from the situation/abuse and you will realize that you cannot be subjected to that type of treatment any longer.
So my advice again is to leave now to get some space from the situation, in order to truly consider it; and I’m sure you will not like what you see.
Funky Monk,
Your advise is sound! I should have pulled the plug long ago; BEFORE creating two lives with her! There are several factors that complicate my situation.
We live overseas in her country, on the other side of the world from my family. The laws here are so anti-male biased it’s hard to believe! She has held all the cards with child custody here! But now my daughter has come of age, and I can see that HCP wife cannot stop my daughter from seeing me as much as she wants! My son on the other hand is already being prepped for fodder! He is still young (10), hence my desire to tough it out for a few more years..
My decision several years back to tough it out saved my daughter’s life (literally). I did not know that at the time, but in hindsight I’m glad I did stay. At least she has a shot at a decent life, and nobody can stop her from seeing me as much as she wants now! 🙂
It has come at a terrible price; I’m on anti-depressants, anti-anxiety medication and my BP is now boarder line. I wasted months in therapy; before I realised that it was my marriage that was causing the problems.. So I’m the one on the meds; but ironically HCP wife is the one that REALLY needs them! She sees my use of meds as another sign of my deficiency; she has publicly mocked me and publicly disclosed that I take “crazy pills”!
Side effect of chronic abuse: Severe Depression and Anxiety..
My Dr suggested that I loose ~25lbs about a year ago; when I went on an exercise program and lost the weight I WAS ACCUSED OF CHEATING! She continues to deride my exercise program and insists that I am just keeping myself fit for my (non-existent) ‘girlfriend’! When I get complemented on my appearance by friends she interjects with not so subtle put downs..
When we do separate, I’m faced with the choice to stay in this country without my family for support. Or returning home to my family and friends, but without my kids, to try to rebuild my life. That’s the real killer – I’ll probably split the difference and stay here until the kids are out of the woods at least.
Finally I have to admit my own responsibility in allowing myself to treated like a door-matt and becoming so co-dependant. Like it or not I’m half to blame for not hitting the road long ago! So it’s really just a matter of time at this point. I doubt that the relationship will last much longer; the more I read here, the more I understand; the stronger and less abuse tolerant I become.. I may not walk out tomorrow, but I will NOT stand for anymore abuse either!
It’s nice to know that I’m not alone, and that there is reason for hope.
If it makes you feel any better, I was where you were over a year ago but I have now had sole-custody of my 2-year old son for almost a year now after being apart from him for 4 months because of his mother. I would like to tell you the whole story here but it is probably too long for one of these comment boxes, so suffice it to say that there is hope on the other side, but you have to make it happen for yourself and your kids. I know your circumstances are extenuating but I wish you the best of luck in your battle for sanity.
It help allot to know that there are others coping with my predicament! You are very courageous: really! I know *exactly* what its like!
Everyone, external to our family thinks she is so nice and sweet! At first I thought she was out of control; WRONG! She times them for maximum impact when nobody (apart from out next door neigbours) can hear her! If her phone rings, she composes herself INSTANTLY takes the call, then resumes the rage attack without missing a beat! I’m NOT KIDDING!
She was abusing out daughter at times when she knew I was not around to put a stop to it! When my daughter told me about (I’m sorry to say), I thought she was exagrerating.. But I confronted the Crazy One; I got lucky and she admitted the abuse, said our daughter DESERVED IT! I told her {FAIL} to her in to a therapist and confronted her.. She has since toned down her act..
But it just dawned on me a couple weeks ago; she can NOT control our daughter anymore, she is NOT 18 but she is old enough to tell Mommy Dearest to F-Off (and apparently she did just that a few day ago).. I did explain to her that she should not talk to her mother like that; but inside I was glad she did! It really caught HCP off guard; she views our kids as objects (her exclusive property) — and that simple act of defiance took that away from Mrs HCP! While my daughter was wrong to use that language, I think it was emotional self-defense on our daughters part.
Anyway thanks for giving me hope! 🙂
StrawMan, severe depression and anxiety are direct effects of chronic abuse.
It’s just amazing how your wife flips everything around to be your fault. HCPs are masters at that too, and mine was no exception either.
I understand your difficult predicament; the laws here are very female-biased also. Perhaps you could consider a scenario where you move out, file for divorce and remain nearby your children for a few years before moving back home? You’ll be amazed by the amount of mental clarity that returns once The Crazy One is no longer a daily part of your life.
Please don’t underestimate the value of your own sanity; your son will benefit enormously from having a clear-headed father, even if he has to live with a wacko mother. – Julian.
“..severe depression and anxiety are direct effects of chronic abuse.”
It’s strange the way the whole mess unfolded. She was so nice at first when we lived in my country together. Then when we decided to move here I quit my job, sold everything I owned, bought one way tickets to the other side of the world.. Then came the first nuke meltdown! There I was, no job, no car, no home, a few grand in the bank and a one way ticket here.. I was packing my clothes when she just started hoeing into me for no reason! I felt like I was making a big mistake, but I had sold everything so off I went.. It scared the crap out of me! I almost thought I had imagined it!
Then we arrived here; straight off the plane she changed. The demands started, the constant put downs, then more rage and nuke meltdowns..
Finally about a year into out arrival here she went triple NUKE! In a rage she took a pair of scissors and held them up at me; I had no idea what she was going to do with them — I thought she might stab me — and I think the thought crossed her mind and she decided not too.. So she grabbed her own hair and cut a huge chunk out right in front of me!
Well I should have left right then and there! But I took her to a shrink; and after a few sessions they pronounced her cured too!.. No medication for her; cured!
Anyway, I stuck by her — like I promised in my wedding vows! For better and for worse.. There have been some good times over the years; but when I look back on what I have been through I cringe..
Gradually the abuse has really taken it’s toll on me; I manage myself with medication, diet and exercise. At least I know what I’ve been dealing with all these years; and I’m not the only one..
Hi there StrawMan,
There is no way to beat her at her own crazy game but Dr. T says there are coping strategies you can use to make it through the situation on a day to day basis. In her blog there are four articles in June 2009 titled ‘Coping Strategies’ and in them is alot of useful info that will help. There are a few other articles too ‘Emotional Detatchment’ December 2009 and ‘More on Emotional Attachment’ January 2010. Hope this helps.
Hey Irishgirl,
You are right; there is absolutly NO WAY to win the crazy contest!
Thank you for pointing out those articles, I plan to read them thoroughly.
Right now I’m just trying to cope one day at a time; so I really appreciate your advice! 🙂
* You need to work at a relationship / marriage. It should not feel like work / job.
* If the ring is a problem, it is not the problem.
* Do they want to marry you or just get married.
* Do you feel like a partner or a servant.
Hey Dr. T — I just finished listening to your terrific radio program last night. The callers were great, especially Phil and Paul Elam at the end. I certainly agree with Paul that the most current laws surrounding marriage are insanely biased against men, and we would be STOOOPID to sign our names and agree to become so financially vulnerable.
Which leads to Phil’s question, regarding relationships, are there any models besides rental, leasing or ownership? Having lived in a condominium for the last six years, I believe that the only workable option is co-ownership.
A condominium co-ownership agreement is a legally binding document which spells out the private rights and shared responsibilities of the co-owners. It respects each co-owners’ individual (inside) private space, imposes restrictions on what can be done with the shared (exterior) areas and specifies procedures to resolve conflicts among co-owners. The voting procedure is weighted by the percentage of the building each co-owner owns, which effectively prevents stalemates in decision-making.
This balanced approach to individual/private versus shared rights and responsibilities is precisely what is missing from “modern” (I use the term very loosely, as I think it’s quite backward) marriage legislation. It would also – and I love this – give the man firm grounds for divorce from a high-conflict woman who tries to hijack the agreement.
– Julian.